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jlong

WATER PUMP Failed.

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So the water pump on my 2010 sport with 124K miles failed. I called a couple local shops and they wouldn't touch it. So I had it towed to a ford dealer. They want $2300 to fix it. I saw a youtube video of someone changing it in a Flex. It looks like something that can be done by myself except for 1 thing. It looks like there is more room under the hood of the flex than there is under the hood of my car. I'm going to call a few more shops and see if I can get a better price.

 

Has this happened to anyone and have you changed it your self? Can this even be done in a driveway? Does the engine have to be dropped out to get the front cover off? I'm considering doing it my self but I just don't know if I have the ability to without a lift. I guess I need to order the manual to see what the book says.

 

Good news is I know exactly when the pump failed and I was sitting at a red light. I heard a funny noise that kind of sounded like the AC compressor or idler pulley seized and the RPM's dipped briefly, then returned to normal and the noise went away. There is no water in the oil. I didn't drive it much, maybe half a mile after it happened and I had it towed to the dealer. So if coolant wasn't leaking into the oil I think the engine is still good.

 

Other than the water pump stupidity this car has been one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned. This is such a stupid design. Why couldn't they have put the water pump somewhere else or completely external to the engine. Maybe an electric water pump. Oh well, I'm not an engineer.

 

 

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Well, here is why some shops don't want to touch it. What the effing ess FORD? This is just freaking nuts.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/3qle9b/145_the_difference_in_hours_to_change_a_water/

Edited by jlong

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From the MKZ froum:

http://lincolnmkzforum.com/topic/1413-internal-water-pump-engine-failure/?p=5740

 

This is why it's $2300:

 

Raise and safely support the vehicle.
Drain the cooling system.
Loosen the exhaust flexible pipe clamp and disconnect the 2 exhaust hangers.
Remove the 4 nuts, the exhaust flexible pipe and the Y-pipe as an assembly. Discard the nuts and the gasket.
Remove the LH and RH catalytic converters. Refer to the Exhaust Manifold procedure for more information on catalytic converter removal.
If equipped, remove the heat shield and disconnect the block heater electrical connector.
Remove the RH cylinder block drain plug or, if equipped, the block heater. Allow the coolant to drain from the cylinder block into a suitable container.
Remove the LH cylinder block drain plug. Allow the coolant to drain from the cylinder block into a suitable container.
Remove the engine front cover.
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise and align the timing marks on the Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) assemblies
Install the special tool onto the flats of the LH camshafts.
Install the special tool onto the flats of the RH camshafts.
Remove the 3 bolts and the RH VCT housing.
Remove the 3 bolts and the LH VCT housing.
Remove and discard the VCT housing seals.
Remove the 2 bolts and the primary timing chain tensioner.
Remove the primary timing chain tensioner arm.
Remove the 2 bolts and the lower LH primary timing chain guide.
Remove the primary timing chain.
Remove the 2 bolts and the upper LH primary timing chain guide.
Remove the RH primary timing chain guide lower bolt.
Loosen the RH primary timing chain guide upper bolt. Rotate the guide and tighten the bolt.
Remove the 8 bolts and the water pump.
Thoroughly clean and inspect all mating surfaces.

 

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Good time to change all the timing components and belts/tensioners as well. What is the coolant change history on your Sport? What oil do you use?

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Posted (edited)

I just had the coolant changed at about 100K miles. I use mobil1 full synthetic and a mobil1 filter and change at 10K miles. Engine runs smooth.

 

So it's at the shop now with the engine pulled. I'm having them change basically everything except hoses and alternator. Though I'm wondering if I should have them change the alternator as well...

 

Edit, I'm wondering about the t-stat also?

 

Edit 2, I'm also having spark plugs changed, front lower rearward control arms and new wheel bearings installed. I did upper and lower front control arms over the summer and shocks too. I also had a passenger CV shaft installed thsi past summer because of a torn boot and vibration.

Edited by jlong

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I will probably lower my oil change interval though, now that it's getting up there in miles.

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Posted (edited)

Called the shop and they are going to talk it over and see. They are being really cool because they won't charge book time on these individual jobs because the engine is out and everything is so accessible. It's still going to be one hell of a bill though. <insert = Puke Emoji />

Edited by jlong

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If you do change the alternator, stick with Motorcraft. Good idea to change the TStat as well, make sure the housing is not rotting away (happens sometimes). The coolant change was a tiny bit later than recommended, but no big deal. I think it just decided to call it quits ...

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, the fact that I was sitting at a red light when it let go not under load or anything, it just didn't want to go anymore. I think I will stick to 50K mile coolant changes from here on out.

 

The alternator is a 2-1/2 hour job at $95 an hour and they will do it for $50 in labor since the motor is out. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the alternator. I have 2 500W amps and in the texas heat it's only a matter of time, probably months not years before it goes.

Edited by jlong

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Just called them and they've already put the motor back in but the ac compressor is still unmounted and the suspension is taken apart because they are doing the bearings. So they quoted $150 for a reman motorcraft, it might be a little more than $50 in labor though.

 

I hope to get another 100K maintenance free miles out of her! The transmission in this car is solid, I just hope there are no side effects of taking the motor out.

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I should be getting the car back today. I don't know how much it's all going to be though. So I had them change the water pump (of course!), any timing components that came off, valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, alternator, front lower rearward control arms, belts, tensioner, change the oil, fill with new radiator fluid, both front bearings, and drivers side axle because it was buggered up removing from the hub.

 

That should be it, I've got the extra large tube of lube ready! lol

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Posted (edited)

Well, they just called and it's all done. Grand total $2485. Not as bad as I expected! The dealer wanted $3300 for just the water pump and radiator fan. The shop said the fans are working... So that is a hell of a deal. A place called Smith's Auto in Katy. I'll report back once I get the car. They did say there are no strange noises and no check engine lights which is a relief.

 

Edit: the total includes towing my car to their shop.

 

Edit 2: I did supply the control arms, oil and filter and the bearings which is another $300 or so, can't remember what I paid for the control arms exactly. The bearings were $110 and the oil and filter were $50 or so. I also paid for the fan assembly but since the fans are working I'm going to return the ones I ordered.

Edited by jlong

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Posted (edited)

I'm still pissed though that the water pump cost this much to fix! It's better than a new car payment though and I still like my car. It has just enough bells and whistles to keep me happy. If it was a base model sport I may not have been quite as quick to fix it.

Edited by jlong

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I got it back! Drives good. The howl and vibration is gone (front bearings and I guess possibly drivers side axle shaft). Getting tires balanced and rotated and an alignment. There was a slight shake in the steering wheel at 60mph.

 

Overall I'm pleased with the outcome. Getting used to the way the engine sounds because of the new stuff that was put on it. It is quieter.

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Glad it worked out well. Positive value at that price.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks. I actually tried to trade it in on a 2016 F150. Dealer would only give me $500 for it. I just couldn't do it. The only logical answer was to fix it. Really at any cost below $6000 the answer was to fix it. I'm glad I did.

Edited by jlong

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We bought a 2010 Ford Fusion Sport about 5 years ago from a friend, the wife and I love the car. It has 154,000 km (96,000 miles) Fortunately we were not on the highway when the motor died, otherwise this would be a different story. The wife was driving down the road when the A/C quit working. I turned the fan off to see if I could hear anything, then I noticed the check engine light came on and my wife said I can't steer. We pulled off the road had BCAA tow it to our mechanic. He found it to be the water pump had failed. The book price said labor for the water pump is 11.5 hr job, because you have to drop the engine. He couldn't do it because of it tying up his small shop for 2-3 days. Another mechanic friend said he couldn't do it either because of the special tools he needed to buy for the job. I then towed it to the local dealership. Now it’s going to cost about $9000 to replace and install the motor. I don't have that kind of money.

After googling "water pump failure", I have found various Ford forums(Ford Edge, Ford Flex, Ford Explorer, Lincoln forum, etc) they all have the same problem with this Duratec 35 engine of the water pump failure, one forum an ASE mechanic said he has done quite a few water pumps on these engines and 4 out of 5 the seals fail and leak coolant into the block, thus destroying the engine. :headscratch:

Ford should address this issue before there is a fatality. I don't feel it should be up to us having to foot the bill for Fords failure to correct the problem or address this issue. I sent a letter to Ford Canada and they basically said thanks for your information. I'm waiting to hear back from the dealership to see if $9000 is the final price or is it less. I'm thinking of fixing it then getting something other than a Ford. :(:gaah:

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No way that should cost $9K. You should be able to swap in a used engine for around $2500. A brand new engine should be in the $5K range - $6K max.

 

Yes it's a bad design but that doesn't change the warranty terms nor is it a safety hazard requiring a recall.

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Water pumps have failed on all brands of cars for many, many years. The fact that it is an unusually expensive repair on the 3.5 engine does not mean it's going to cause a fatality or warrant any special consideration from Ford.

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I'm so sick of people who think that any part that fails on more than one vehicle within the first 200K miles should be covered for free. Now I do think Ford should extend the factory warranty on certain parts in certain cases (and to their credit they do that sometimes - e.g. Focus trannies and TCMs).

 

If you want extra coverage buy the CPO/extended warranty.

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I had my pump let go on the ride home from work, stalled coming into the driveway,  oil all milked up. I had a third party extended service contract so I had it towed to a dealership for confirmation of diagnosis but the company it's telling me they won't cover it because I change my own oil which is strictly excluded in their contract language. For the record I was an ase-certified Master Tech who allowed my certifications to expire because they weren't making me $1 more and we're only costing me on renewal tests. Now I'm trying to figure out whether I should just change the pump or replace the engine considering the contamination. I did change the oil when I got it back from the dealership twice and it does not knock at this time. But you never know what damage the coolant could have done to the actual bearing surfaces. The dealership invoice said that the engine was knocking and skipping which it never did when I dropped it off and I didn't run it after picking it up until I changed the oil, and it never did after I change the oil so I'm hoping that was just some creative license on their part to try to sell the job to the warranty company. So the question is what's the likelihood at the bottom end is still viable if I just do the pump? Considering the amount of work required to get to the engine front cover to do the pump I'm half inclined to just buy a Ford reman and throw it in but the warranty on the reman is pretty pitiful.

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That sucks, but that's why it's not recommended to go with a 3rd party warranty.   If you do be sure to read the fine print.

 

Not a mechanic but I would think if it ran fine before and after the dealer visit and didn't overheat then it might be ok.   Although you have to ask if it was ok why did it stall?

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23 minutes ago, akirby said:

That sucks, but that's why it's not recommended to go with a 3rd party warranty.   If you do be sure to read the fine print.

 

Not a mechanic but I would think if it ran fine before and after the dealer visit and didn't overheat then it might be ok.   Although you have to ask if it was ok why did it stall?

I'm not 100% sure but if i had to guess,

  • it stalled due to the battery being low (battery has been on the weak side for a little while, was slated for replacement before winter set in) because the alternator belt was slipping from the coolant being sprayed on it out the leak port. (ford did make a port to dump coolant leakage outside the motor but thats not the only direction it leaks, and there was a pressure vent going on when i opened the hood). 
  • it stalled due to the oil being over thickened by the mixing of oil and coolant which becomes almost gelatinous at a certain mixture ratio, and the extra load on the oil pump was more than the engine could handle at idle
  • it stalled because the super thick oil coolant mixture couldn't make it up to the cam phaser so the cam timing went to whatever position it goes to without oil pressure (probably full retard)

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Makes sense.   Good luck either way.

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