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Doing BOTH CAI AND BLOW-OFF valve, REDUNDANT? or...

CAI

Best Answer Waldo , 16 February 2017 - 08:53 AM

The blow off valve is all about noise, it will offer no performance.  The K&N intakes are all about letting more dirt get into your turbos and ruining them faster, it will offer virtually no performance.

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#1 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:54 PM

I'm ordering now, a 2017 Fusion SE with the 1.5 lt Ecoboost.

I was/am planning on doing either a K&N CAI (or Steeda short ram) intake.

But, I've also heard good things about an aftermarket "BLOW-OFF Valve".  MY MAIN question is, if done together, is the benefit of each cumulative?

Meaning, is there any LESS point in doing one if you've already done the other? 

ALSO is it safe to assume any part listed as for a 2016 1.5lt EB will be compatible on a 2017 1.5lt EB? (as K&N doesn't list a CAI for the 2017 yet but they do for the 2016)

 

Also, someone on another thread here made a strong case for, "save your money" and, rather than CAI, just replace the filter element with a high-flow K&N filter as the factory intake was already built to "ram" the intake, BUT, he was I believe referring to the Fusion SPORT ecoboost. Would the same be apply to the 1.5? 

Also, what do you guys think about the BLOW-OFF valve replacement (in general) since I've NEVER seen it talked about here, (at least not on a FUSION page) total BS or not?  

Sorry for the convoluted multiple-question question, and hopefully I'm at least asking on the correct thread...

 

Thanks in advance.









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#2 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 08:23 PM

see attached txt file 

Good FYI I think...



#3 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 11:38 PM

and yeah, I DID find the BOV adapters thread over on the Fusion Sport forum here. Kind of surprising how NOT enticing the audio from the video the guy posted there was. Just sounded like a hissing noise. I got a way better sound from the Steeda short ram I put on my 07 Focus.

Attached Files



#4 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:53 AM   Best Answer

The blow off valve is all about noise, it will offer no performance.  The K&N intakes are all about letting more dirt get into your turbos and ruining them faster, it will offer virtually no performance.



#5 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:20 AM

And the CAI won't help much either if you're actually looking for performance.   Get a tuner or better yet - trade that 1.5L for a 2.0L ecoboost. You'll get more performance for less money in the long run.



#6 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:49 AM

thanks y'all.

Right now I'm leaning towards, just replacing the stock air filter with the K&N, and the oil filter too, with either K&N or Royal Purple.

The BOV I'm mostly neutral on. Pro's include, the price, ease of install, and no evidence (as yet) it will do any HARM.

 

I've been on a lot of boards, (full disclosure, to include counting some amazon-reviewer-yuks) and/but this is the first I've heard about K&N stuff actually doing damage.

Coming from the guys that have DONE K&N the praise is pretty consistently unanimous. But now I will actually try and seek out criticism ref K&N. 

 

Personal experience; when I put the Steeda Short Ram on my 07 Focus there was a small but noticeable, (maybe like 3 - 6%) uptick in mpg and/or 'ass', depending on hard I pushed it, (you got one or the other) But, admittedly, that Duratec was a totally different animal from the current EB.

 

Also I only re-oiled the filter after very first time I washed it. After that I just said screwit, washed dried and slapped it back on. 10 years and almost 70k miles later the engine has never shown any signs of having a problem with that. NOW THAT SAID a recent "deep-clean" fuel-system clean, with the more expensive crap you're supposed to run through on as close to an empty tank as possible, while it didn't blow visible smoke, the after-effect performance change was VERY noticeable. Perhaps that's the K&N take-away. If you're going to use something that might be guilty of letting a little more dirt get through, compensate by being a little more religious with the fuel-system cleaner additives....?

 

Lastly 1.5 v 2.0. At 60+ now I'm significantly more interested MPG over performance. (1), and 2.) Looking as FORD's Fusion Engine-spec sheet with all the possible engines & tranny's, It sure looks to me like the 1.5 best hits the sweet-spot balancing MPG with HP. (seen in this side-by-side chart)

http://www.ford.ca/c...cations/engine/

(You would not believe how hard this chart is to find). (Thank You Ford CANADA)

AND LAST but not least. I'm cheep. To get the 2.0 is a SIGNIFICANT price bump (like about $3k) over the 1.5, I'd rather put the money into leather and the 11 speaker Premium Audio

 

Getting back to the MODS I also DO plan on, before making ANY mods, running out (at least) several tank-fulls and getting specific numbers on MPG, and some "feel" for the as-is performance. So I'll have some basis of comparison, whether I do just the filter elements or full CAI.

 

Thanks to all



#7 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:59 AM

oh, yeah, and, down the road, the custom-tune is totally on the table as well.

I may look for a little guidance from y'all on getting a decent one, hopefully in the sub $300 range.

I've sorta nosed around already and there's quite a few, ranging from $60 to over $400, clearly not all created equal....



#8 OFFLINE   drolds1

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:23 PM

Watch this video from a Ford tech who works on these cars every day.

 

If you're planning on ordering a 2017, be aware also that mods like this could result in warranty issues down the road.  Warranty guide:

 

 

Damage Caused by Alteration or Modification

 

The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any damage caused by: • alterations or modifications of the vehicle, including the body, chassis, electronics or their components, after the vehicle leaves the control of Ford Motor Company

 

• tampering with the vehicle, tampering with the emissions systems or with the other parts that affect these systems (for example, but not limited to exhaust and intake systems)

 

• the installation or use of a non-Ford Motor Company part or software (other than a certified emissions part or software) or any part or software (Ford or non-Ford) designed for off-road use only installed after the vehicle leaves the control of Ford Motor Company, if the installed part fails or causes a Ford part to fail. Examples include, but are not limited to lift kits, oversized tires, roll bars, cellular phones, alarm systems, automatic starting systems and performance-enhancing powertrain components or software and performance “chips”.

Ford has been cracking down on this more in recent years.  I'm not saying it's a hard and fast rule but if you come in with a powertrain warranty claim and they see a CAI and aftermarket BOV, they could start looking for a non-stock tune.  They're doing with this now with F-series diesels and they can tell if a tune was installed and returned to stock.



#9 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:06 PM

The BOV I'm mostly neutral on. Pro's include, the price, ease of install, and no evidence (as yet) it will do any HARM.

 

I don't see any Pros with the BOV - it costs money, makes a stupid annoying sound and adds zero performance.   But hey - if you like that stupid annoying sound go for it.

 

A tuner is the only real performance adder and it costs more than $300.   And you'll have to run premium for max power so don't expect to save any money on mpg.  Don't be fooled into buying "chips" - they don't work.



#10 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:08 PM

@ drolds1; 

Thanks and I will indeed check out your vid and take your undoubtedly sound counsel to heart, However,

one thing you should know is I'm overseas. I'm buying through military car sales (MAS) and having the car delivered overseas.

My access here in Italy to warranty/service will be sparse to none. The local Italian Ford dealer has a rep for not being friendly

to Americans or US-SPEC vehicles. And the on-base AAFES garage is not Authorized Ford Service either, SO IT'S going to

be  pretty much ON ME to take the best care I can OF this vehicle and SEE TO IT that it never NEEDS warranty or servicing,

beyond what I can/or/need to do myself at the on-base Auto Skills Center with the help of ASE certified mechanics. (WHICH IS

why, I'M HERE first and not buying stuff off Amazon based 75% fake-reviews and slapping it on.)

My 2007 Focus had nothing but that and remains in mint condition. Never needed anything I couldn't handle.

I intend to proceed cautiously and be conservative with any mods I do apply. Nothing envelope-pushing.

 

ALSO, anyway, isn't there a law, (may vary by state) that requires the dealer, before denying warranty service, to PROVE a particular

MOD did, or at least COULD HAVE caused whatever now needs fixing? They can't just say "oh look! You have a CAI!, We're not

replacing the tailgate wiring harness"

 

That's also (warranty issues) the reason I decided against another FOCUS. TRANNY ISSUES. (Particularly the "pseudo-auto") I've

really researched this car and it's solid. If well cared for and not abused it stands an excellent chance of never needing any warranty-service.



#11 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:56 PM

 

I don't see any Pros with the BOV - it costs money, makes a stupid annoying sound and adds zero performance.   But hey - if you like that stupid annoying sound go for it.

 

A tuner is the only real performance adder and it costs more than $300.   And you'll have to run premium for max power so don't expect to save any money on mpg.  Don't be fooled into buying "chips" - they don't work.

yo, you're right, listing several pro's and no cons might lead one to believe I'm leaning toward one. my bad. in truth I'm leaning more and more away from the BOV.

One big CON (besides the obvious non-performance factor) is from what I heard on that guys vid I actually (and I did say this) did not really like the sound it made. BASED on the best one could discern from (most likely) smart-phone vid grade audio that is... at this point my interest in the BOV is fading.



#12 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:18 PM

Why would you not just get a local Mondeo with the same 1.5L?  It's basically the same thing and you wouldn't have any trouble with local warranty.

 

No amount of fuel system cleaner is going to fix a pitted turbo blade.



#13 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:09 PM

Why would you not just get a local Mondeo with the same 1.5L?  It's basically the same thing and you wouldn't have any trouble with local warranty.

 

No amount of fuel system cleaner is going to fix a pitted turbo blade.

THAT is a fair question. Two reasons. the MAIN one being, I'm retiring in the next few years and plan to ship the car back to the U.S. when I do.  The Mondeo is nice, but I'd have sell it and take a pretty big hit selling 3-4 year old car.

Secondly (or third depending on how you count), Even with the strong-at-the-moment dollar, and saving the over-seas shipping off (I'll pay on the Fusion) AND getting the Italian "VAT" tax off, it's STILL a more costly buy for the euro-priced car over all. I checked it out. I didn't look at a Mondeo specifically but I looked at similarly equipped Honda, I assume the Ford would be similar, a friend of mine here just DID that with Euro-Fiesta and I know what he paid and how it was equipped. But the main reason is I plan on bringing it back with me. When I buy new it's ALWAYS with the intention of getting MINIMUM 10 years out of it. (Plus the euro-Hondas won't be getting the new turbos until 2018)


Edited by 2ndNewFordGuy, 16 February 2017 - 05:15 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:08 PM

so.... what's the consensus here? does EVERYONE agree the K&N (full CAI) is too porous and WILL definitely, over time, cause real damage to the turbo?

No variable for maybe you live somewhere that maybe there isn't that much dirt/grit in the air? (like in or near a desert or the beach?, or if you pretty much NEVER drive on dirt roads?

Third, is the same equally true of the K&N (or ANY other brand of) "high-flow" OEM filter element replacement? (vs the CAI). What about Steeda? No better?

And while we're on the subject of "high flow", is there any similar issues with the OIL filters? 

My brother, who fancies himself a bit of a gear-head, speculated that the high-flow oil filters might be problematic if the computer and/or pump is expecting a certain degree of BACK PRESSURE and doesn't get it. 


Edited by 2ndNewFordGuy, 16 February 2017 - 08:12 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:50 PM

Majority rules, and, majority is correct. I said I was going to do my own specific research on K&N and turbo damage and the hits I got were more than sufficiently convincing. MAYBE,there MIGHT be some non-turbo engines, running in a mostly clean environment that can handle the K&N and even benefit slightly. My 2007 Duratec had a Steeda "OCG" short ram for almost ALL of it's 60k+ miles, (not even re-oiled the last 3 times I cleaned it) and never seemed to care....

 

But, in as far as K&N and a turbo charged engine is concerned, there's NO question. BAD IDEA.

 

I'm now convinced my best/SAFEST plan of attack, for MAX-FLOW with MAX-protection, is to simply over-change the FACTORY filter, say every 5k miles or once a year, which ever happens first, even if it "looks" fine. If the filters were expensive maybe I'd re-think that, but I just checked good ol' Rockauto and the FORD MOTORCRAFT FA1912 is only 11 freakin' dollars! ($7 shipping for up to 6 filters, $5 for 1) at that price I can easily afford to give it a new one every 5k miles or once a year. 

"Solved" credit will go to WALDO Since he was the first-responder to say it.

BOV was already a dead issue. Sound was ALL it was and not particularly impressive in that, leaving NO reason.

 

Still kind of on the fence about the OIL FILTER tho... since it's not passing it's "dirt" on to delicate turbo parts...



#16 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:26 PM

As I said in the other topic no reason to use anything other than motorcraft oil filters.

#17 OFFLINE   2ndNewFordGuy

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:56 PM

As I said in the other topic no reason to use anything other than motorcraft oil filters.

Thank you for your input. I decided the other topic was a stupid question and requested deletion.

If there's a way for the creator of a topic to delete it, I couldn't find it.

Didn't notice you had replied there too.


Edited by 2ndNewFordGuy, 17 February 2017 - 07:57 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   drolds1

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:47 AM

Thank you for your input. I decided the other topic was a stupid question and requested deletion.

If there's a way for the creator of a topic to delete it, I couldn't find it.

Didn't notice you had replied there too.

Deletion is a moderator-only function.






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