VonoreTn

No hard feelings pal, we want liberals buying FFH's too, I'm not fussy about the political party of those supporting my Ford pension....

Three points: One, the Volt will not have a 90% efficiency of making electricity, or the second process of running a motor at 90% efficiency. It has to do both. I'm sticking with 70% efficiency for both unless someone can show me some data otherwise, which gives a 50% overall, not very good. Even at a constant speed for electricity generation, there are big losses in coils passing through magnetic fields. I am eager to see the road tests on what this Volt will actually do for FE. I will stick to my projection that it will not get 50 mpg steady state after the first 40 miles. There is simply not sufficient magic going on with the strategy. Secondly the Volt has to use premium fuel. That is a serious competitive disadvantage over the FFH, which must be factored in. Third, someone mentioned that diesel electric locomotives are efficient. Not really. Overall as a transportation mode they are very efficient because they haul a lot of cargo, and the steel wheel on a steel track has low mechanical losses. But for converting fuel energy into mechanical energy they are not more efficient than a 40 mpg mechanical drivetrain diesel car. For the reasons already stated, mechanical drivetrains are more efficient than converting to electricity to run electric motors. Holding locomotive diesel engines at a relatively constant low speeds is a good idea mainly for durability. If the diesel electric combo were more efficient than a diesel and mechanical drivetrain, you would see them in heavy trucks and you don't. Heavy trucks track every bit of efficiency because it impacts their profit margins.

Chevy claims that the Volt will get 50 mpg after the first 40 miles, but I am very skeptical of that conclusion. It is heavier than a Prius and it has the additional inefficiency of generating electricity for charging batteries that in turn drive motors. Each operation is at best a 70% efficient energy conversion, thus combined it is only a 49% efficient process after the 30% efficiency of the ICE, for a total of 15% overall efficiency. A direct drive by an ICE like the Prius and Fusion Hybrid have, gives you the 30% ICE efficiency plus 85% mechanical drivetrain efficiency for an overall of 25% versus the Volt 15%. After the first 40 miles on the Volt I think not only will the Prius beat the Volt, so will the Fusion Hybrid with it's approximate 40 mpg. But there is no question that the first 40 miles on the battery is a big plus since most Americans make lots of short runs in a day. Assuming that their electrical energy cost is currently reasonable. I'm just not sure it's worth the extra even $2-$3 grand for someone who spends a lot of time highway driving. I think GM engineers are well aware of this situation which one reason it's release keeps getting delayed. And I do resent the fact that my tax dollars will be subsidizing the Volt's competitive position against the FFH, since I am a retired Ford employee. That's just not fair. They should subsidize all hybrids or no hybrids, not just the Government Motors hybrid.

I'm thinking that when Ford did the contract with Sync, they had an On Star capability in mind, for future applications.

Mine jumped up from the 37 mpg range to the lower 40's after I took it in to the dealer for a free "brake feel" adjustment that I got a notice about in the mail. Not sure what they did. Also it turned warmer here in Tennessee about the same time, that might have been the reason.

Ford creating American jobs! Excellent.

I worked in the Air Conditioning engineering at Ford for several years (years ago) and we ran a lot of windtunnel tests to measure speed of cool down with a 110F ambient and 130F interior starting point. Opening the windows first is a good idea, as the interior can get up to as high as 140F in southern states with the windows closed in a parking lot. Leaving a small gap at the top of the windows while parked can knock 20F off that peak. Whether you start on fresh air and switch to recirculation mode makes very little difference in cool down rate, but recirculation mode is always much more efficient than fresh air mode. In fresh air mode you can spend as much as half of your AC cooling energy on extracting moisture out of the incoming air, and dumping it out a drain below the evaporator onto the road. But in recirculation mode, once you have dehumidified the air, you save that energy and just cool the same dehumidified air over and over. So be sure to push that little button on the bottom right with the recirculation symbol. If you need to freshen the air for whatever reason, just take it out of recirc for a minute or two, or open a window or the sun roof briefly. Also if it's 90F outside, you don't need to put it on 68 to get to a comfortable 72, put it on 72. A setting of 68 is just begging the system to run at max capacity and energy level constantly. My personal FFH experience with running the AC has been that it has been totally comfortable and it hardly has any impact on my mileage 40-42 mpg, whereas I took a big hit during cold temperatures this last winter 34-38 mpg. Thus I am impressed with the FFH air conditioning engineering, I think Ford did an outstanding job on designing it.

Best bet is to do nothing. I jumped the gun, took the best deal I could get, which was about $137 for one year. Then a week later someone called me with a much better deal, like about $87 for a year. I think you automatically get thrown into a third party system of people working on hard-to-renew-cases out of their home (I heard a baby in the background). A pleasant lady who spoke perfect English offered this much better deal, but it was too late to change. Think about it, it costs them no more to give you Sirus at half cost or full cost. Yes they need high fees to stay in business, but once in business, users who insist on half price cost them no more. There are only a few stations I really like, mainly the Patriot talk radio station, and Fox News. Which are especially nice to have while traveling in remote sections of the country.

T.M.I.

That is truly clever, I respect you for your ingenuity. I lived in Michigan for 33 years and drove about 25 different vehicles to work in that time period, and the only time I didn't have heat in 3 minutes on the expressway or 5 in traffic, was if I had a bad thermostat. They were all Ford products. But I never started out cold in heavy traffic, maybe that is your experience which would take longer. Giving up some mpg for some early heat sounds reasonable as you describe. You might also consider a block heater which are dealer installed on a regular basis in Canada, they preheat the engine coolant, with no detriment to mpg. You will have warm air coming out of the heater as soon as you back out of your garage. Once installed, Just plug in a connector near the grill, and into the wall 110V once installed. Not only will you be warmer sooner, your catalytic converter will light off quicker, lowering your emission levels as well. You can run it on a timer if it only takes about an hour to heat the coolant, for instance. I read somewhere that they are standard equipment on new Ford Fusions sold in AK, MN, ND, SD, MT, WI & WY.

We were struggling to hold 36 mpg before the adjustment, now we are getting 42 with no problem. Might have been the weather warm up too. I don't know.

Here is a hint. You are trying to achieve Miles per gallon. When the engine is running, and you aren't going any miles, the MPG is Zero, by definition, which subtracts from your average mpg, and wastes gasoline. An engine warms up best when it is under load, not at idle. It warms up much quicker under load than sitting at idle. I have always thought the "luxury" of a remote start is overkill on perceived improvement of standard of living, but then I coming at it from an engineer's perspective. Maybe you live near the north pole and it makes sense to you.

This is not a FFH issue, nor a Ford issue, and I don't like the fact that a connection is even suggested to those who won't read the article in full. Ford has enough legal issues to deal with regarding imaginary product shortfalls without suggesting a new one. I think this topic should be removed from the entire Ford forum for that reason. Doesn't one of the 10 Commandments deal with not bearing false witness?

I would definitely drive it and make sure that everything works, including installing your phone on sync and making sure it works (needs to be bluetooth compatible cell phone). I'm not sure that their "certified" is any better than the factory warranty that will come with it, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. At $25K I think that is reasonable. 10K miles is not that hard on a FFH, it's just at it's first oil change, the engine hasn't been run/loaded near as much as in a normal vehicle. Also see if you can get the deal I got on a used Mustang at a Dodge dealer once, three days to return it warranty, no questions asked. After buying it, I took the car to a local Ford Dealer, he ran computer checks on it and found that the title had been branded. That means it had been either stolen, major rework, or bad accident, and no Ford warranty would apply. I returned it the second day and got a full refund.

Once you get used to the FFH mileage, there is no going back to a 23 mpg vehicle. The Subaru is a great vehicle but how often do you need 4 wheel drive? I had it in an Explorer for 10 years and used it about twice, going out of my way to find a reason to use it. The Prius is a good car too, but I don't think it has the road comfort or the safety of a larger, heavier car. The Volkswagen Jetta Diesel is a good choice but it doesn't get quite the mileage of a FFH. (30 city, 42 highway). I don't consider the FFH overpriced, because I know that the cost to build it is there, given the high content drivetrain and batteries, and that Ford is not making a huge profit on it like they do on a lot of their trucks. There is a lot of serious business speculation that Toyota loses money on the Prius, to get you into their dealership where they can sell you a Camry. Toyota would never acknowledge this if it were true, since they would risk charges of product dumping. http://www.glgroup.com/News/Is-Toyotas-Prius-Being-Dumped-On-The-US-Market--23242.html

We had a truck go off the left side of the road taking the southern route around St. Louis a month ago in our FFH, and it kicked up stones, and one put a spider impact crack on the front left of the windshield. I wasn't drafting, although in the heavy traffic, I was too close to the truck, both of us being in the far left lane passing slower traffic. We had the plastic infusion fix at a windshield repair shop in Knoxville when we got home, and it made it almost invisible except for 2 small dots that you would never notice. Our insurance paid for it 100%, because it is so much cheaper for them than replacing a windshield. Of course with our $500 deductible, we would have had to pay for the new windshield, so this fix was a free win-win. This obviously has nothing to do with your huge Z crack. That sounds like a structural issue, or a plant mis-assembly, and unless there is some sign of a road impact incident, it should be fully covered by the Ford warranty.

Excellent response. It's not an electric vehicle, and it took me awhile to get over with my fascination with trying to stay in electric mode, since it barely makes any difference if your in and out at 45 mph on rolling hills, or cruising at 48 with the ICE on continuously. It's about mileage, not being in electric mode. My FFH now has 12K miles on it, and I experienced the cold weather blues, and it only got Camry hybrid mpg's through the winter (35 ish). But now that it is warm again, I am in the low 40 mpgs. If you want 45 mpg you might be disappointed, I think 42 might be the max without hypermiling. We averaged 40 on a 1000 mile trip to Texas last Sept. with the AC running continuously, on fairly flat terrain. I'm not a tree hugger either, but I appreciate that my fuel bill has been cut in half, and if everyone's new car was a FFH or Prius, we would really set the standard of living back in Saudi Arabia, as our gas prices go down and our standard of living goes up. (Supply and demand)

Do you mean the Owner's Manual that came in the Glove box?

Good news! My FFH mileage seemed to drop over the winter, but it just popped back on the last tank of gas. I speculate that the increase is related to 3 things, and maybe a combination of all 3. 1. The weather is warmer, in the 50's yesterday. 2. My last tank of gas was from a different station than I have used before, and it is 100% gas, no ethanol. 3. I took my Fusion in for the brake related free computer recalibration last week, and based on FFH gauge readings, there has been an improvement since then. I averaged 43 yesterday on an 80 mile trip into and back from Knoxville. My chart below is from fuel tank fillup data, not Fusion displays. I also add 2% for odometer error. Since I have more air in my tires (36 psi cold) than the computer thinks (32 psi cold), I actually go more distance than my odometer says, per tire revolution. I measured this on a road trip over a straight 50 mile stretch, and it was consistent for 10, 25, and 50 miles.

I assume that the reason it is so expensive is that it is kind of built in, and once you do get at it, it can be cleaned, like a K&N filter. There was another thread on this subject in this area, I think someone posted who was familiar with how to get at it, I think through the front left wheel well cover.

Our dealer wanted $1800 for the same warranty, so you could do worse. That warranty is really only from 36k miles to 100k, since your new car warranty is essentially the same thing and it goes 3 years or 36k miles, whichever comes first. I think you can get as low as $1100 if you shop, it's offered through normal insurance companies, who all just go by the risk tables. I think the cost might be different if you have sync/GPS, since I know a Toyota dealer who wanted $6K to replace a friends 04, 4runner intermittent functioning GPS/climate control screen, at 74K miles. (He has since bought a Ford). But I would definitely confirm with your dealer that whatever outside package you get it will be good at your dealer. It won't cover brake pads or rotors, engine or transmission leaks, and normal wear and tear stuff, (seat wear, paint, etc), just major drive line stuff like a failed engine, transmission, and I think all the electronics. The 8 year 100K mile hybrid warranty covers only hybrid stuff, I don't think it covers the electronic display or sync in general. Please correct me if I'm wrong anybody.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only FFH owner whose mpg dropped to 35 this winter. 116 new vehicles? That must be some kind of record, over 2 new vehicles per year! And you must have a very good income!

I was thinking these problems had nothing to do with my FFH, until my Wife told me today that as she pulled out of the garage, all the mpg data re-zeroed. That's the first time that has happened in the 6 months we have owned the vehicle, with ~11,000 miles on it.

Ingenious! Good job. :beerchug: