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Hi Boz. Yes, this does seem to be the norm with newer vehicles. I have my 2007 MKZ, and a 2001 Mercury Cougar. The oil spec for the 3.5L V-6 engine in the MKZ is 5.5 quarts, and the 2.5L V-6 engine in the Cougar is 5.8 quarts. As a plus, they do come with longer oil change intervals, so we can take some comfort in that. Good luck.

I agree with akirby 100%. In most cases, leasing is the equivalent of renting a car for the rest of your life. Your monthly payments never end. The payments may be lower initially, but they will increase with each new lease, continue for life, and the long term cost is higher. Especially considering the longer warranties and higher reliability of today's cars. But everyone has to be comfortable with their own decision, so we all get to choose what's best. In my opinion (and that of most finance experts), leasing is only a viable alternative (and rarely so) if you can write off some or all of your leasing costs as a business expense.

:rolleyes: :beerchug: Hi akirby. So it has been written...So it shall be done! That is one of the great things I love about this country, dontcha think? You can agree to disagree without someone setting off a car bomb in front of your house! Good luck with your Fusion! :backtotopic:

Hi akirby. Again, let me preface my reply by stating that I am not trying to be a wiseguy, only reply in a polite manner to your statements. I do not take your opinion personally, and hope you feel the same. That said, please do not put words in my mouth, or read between the lines. I state my case very clearly (and probably in too many words :boring: ) And actually, the only reason we are having this discussion is because you did argue that I was doing something that was wrong. I did not say the Fordpartner.com website is not "official". I stated it is not the "Official" A/Z/X Ford Employee website (which it is not), and as you state in your reply, you do not access. I am very familiar with the Fordpartner.com site, and it is very helpful resource for those who qualify. I was very clear about that. I am not advocating "playing games" with salesmen, nor wasting their time, as they have every right to earn a living as we all must. Plus, if they give a competitive price, they may close a sale! Works for everyone. However, why should anyone just take our word that the X-Plan is the last word in pricing? I am explaining how someone who has an X-Plan (or A/Z) PIN can assure themselves that they are getting the best price. I would expect even my family/friends/and neighbors to question my advice in a healthy manner. I just tell them how to verify that they are getting the best price possible. In point of fact, any one I advise is free to not compare pricing, go straight to their dealer of choice, and just buy the car on the X-Plan. And in answer to your statement that all an X-Plan buyer has to do is "figure what car you want, tell them you have a X plan pin and sign the papers", I would answer: If the people I helped had done that, they would have been overcharged. As I stated previously, in 21 out of 22 purchases I have been involved in, the Dealers we patronized did not deal honestly (or they have faulty calculators) on A/Z/X/plan sales, whether accidentally or not. None of us are unquestionable authorities, wouldn't you agree? In fact my original post in this thread was in reply to someone (chriscav) who stated that they felt they could negotiate a better price on their own, than the X-Plan price. Then you replied to my answer by telling me my advice broke X-Plan rules (which we have now established, was incorrect). Unfortunately, that has become lost in the hub-bub now. As I also stated, it is probably best that we agree to disagree. You are looking at things from a Dealer/Salesperson perspective, and I am looking at it through an educated buyers perspective. I am following the rules, and are relatively sure your point of view will not change. So, America is a great country, don't you think? Hope you are taking this all in good spirits! Good luck. :hyper:

Hi akirby :D . Just a few discrepancies I'd like to point out in your reply. And again, I hope you understand that I am not trying to be a wiseguy, only informative. You state that the quote you refer to is from the fordpartner.com website. My reply to your quote would be this: It says you "should" inform. Not that you must inform. Nor does it say that it is prohibited to negotiate prices pre-plan. Also, it is not from the actual A/X/Z Plan site, it is from the "fordpartner.com" website. The A/Z/X Plan website, which we have access to, is the official Ford employee site, and there is no prohibition dealing with what we are discussing. That being said, even the quote from Fordpartner.com does not prohibit what we advise. Referring to your #1: A - Again, we tell our family/friends/neighbors to negotiate their best non-plan price at a dealership other than the one they would want to buy at, then go to the dealership they would buy at and identify themselves as plan participants to get the plan price. This gives them an honest comparison between Plan and non-Plan prices. B - We tell anyone within earshot, never trade in a car. Only a person that likes flushing money down a toilet would trade in, as opposed to selling their car on their own. Again, for anyone reading this, "Do not trade in your car! The Dealer will not give you a good price! If you want to get the most money for your old car, sell it yourself. It is more than worth the inconvenience!" C - Being slighly more mercenary in my answer, why exactly should anyone care about the fact that this exposes the dealer shell game with the trade-in price? The Dealer is free to then explain why my old car car is worth a different price according to how much the Dealer can liberate from my pockets for the new car. When you read that, as a potential buyer, doesn't it seem rather foolish to put yourself at the mercy of the Dealer? But again, that is a moot point as in general, only an un-educated buyer (with exceptions of course ) trades in a car at a dealership. D - Don't get me wrong. I understand a Dealer is free to make as much money on a sale as they can, but our job is to keep as much of our money in our pockets as we can. The only way to do that is to be an educated buyer. That is what we are advocating. Referring to your #2: A - I pointed out in my reply that Dealer participation is strictly voluntary. And, I repeat, according to my advice to family/friends/neighbors, they are negotiating at a Dealership where they will not be buying on the X-Plan. In actual fact, we are being extremely fair, as a Dealership that would not normally even have a shot at a sale, now does, if they give an excellent price. B - What you are implying, is that after you get an X-Plan price, you should simply say to the sales person, "Okay, now can you beat that price?" Do you really believe that will happen? If that was the case, they would just give us the rock bottom, let's make a deal price in the first place :pig: . Then nobody would ever need a Purchase Plan (and I would be rich, handsome, and 20 years younger ... okay, I'm back now). How often have any of us had that occur? C - Again, being more mercenary in my answer. In 15 years, of the 25 or so A/Z/X plan sales we have assisted in (not even including our own purchases), I have personally gone to the Dealerships with the individuals we were helping approximately 22 times (many different Dealerships). Of those 22 times, on 21 of them, the sales people have still tried to overcharge the buyer, either by charging plan prohibited "Documentation" or other fees, or by "Honest" calculation mistakes (ask Bassnutz, a member of this forum about that one. He unfortunately lives out of state, so I could not accompany him to the Dealership). Then of course, there is the interminable wait while they go back and forth to "check with their manager" about this or that. They have managed, 21 times or so, to turn what should be an approximately 30 minute hassle free, in and out sale, into 3 hour marathons of waiting and having to double check every figure and fact they provide. Now, remind me again how we are not being fair to the Dealership? Nothing we advise to our family/friends/neighbors breaks any Ford Motor Company A/Z/X Plan rule. Our advice does not even break the rule you cite from the Fordpartner.com site (Rule #11, which is stricter than the actual A/Z/X/Plan site regulations). Our advice sends out an educated buyer to negotiate with a Dealer that holds all the cards in a sale. Plus as we all know, if a Dealer feels they have been dealt with unfairly, and is offended, they don't have to sell us a car. Again, I state for the record that I would never knowingly break, nor advise anyone else to break the Plan rules. And to that effect, what I have advised breaks no Plan rule which I have read, or you have provided. In closing, akirby, I guess we shall agree to disagree for two reasons. First, your quote (of Rule #11) to back your opinion does not prohibit what we advise. Second, I have a feeling I will not sway you, as you seem to be leaning towards the Dealership point of view, while I am working from the buyers (me, my family and friends) point of view. In the end, our advice breaks no rules, and is meant to help those close to us. Negotiations are a daily ritual at Dealerships, they will get over it (and still make the sale anyway). Sorry for the long post, just trying to be informative :stats: . Hopefully we can now end this thread hijack which we have perpetrated, and let everyone return to their regularly scheduled programming. I hope you and yours have a very Healthy and Happy New Year.

Hi akirby. In actuality, I was trying to briefly explain the A/X/Z Plan system in my answer. I certainly could not be expected to go over all the rules in a paragraph or two. We tell our family/friends/neighbors to negotiate prices (as regular non-plan customers) at several dealerships (where they would most likely not purchase the car), then go to the dealer where they would prefer to buy, and get the X-Plan price. This is to assure them that they are getting the best price with the plan. They do have that right. As for what I am going to say next, please understand that I am not trying to be a wiseguy or provoke an argument. Also, I would never knowingly encourage anyone to break plan rules. That being said, as far as any information I can find on the Plan website, and in many years experience, you are mistaken. In fact, the statement that "You're required to notify the dealer before you do any negotiations" would seem to be a contradiction in terms. With the X-Plan, once you get the Plan price, there are no negotiations. When a customer is finally going to purchase, yes, of course they must identify themself as a plan participant. However, this is a free country, and the customer has every right to negotiate their best price to be sure they are getting the best deal at any Dealership they see fit. Now of course, if you can guide me to a site which gives some corroborating information as to your thoughts on the Plan rules, I would stand corrected. I just read over the site, and other than a short blurb stating "To obtain plan pricing, you must identify yourself as a plan member..." I can find no such prohibition. That is much different than your quote above. In fact, in past periodic mailings, Ford actually encouraged comparison shopping, so an X-Plan participant would be completely satisfied that they had received the best deal possible. Think about it, why would Ford prohibit you from getting the best price you can from a Dealer? The Dealer is an independent franchise, with every right to negotiate and set their own price. In fact, a Dealership is not even required to participate in A/X/Z Plan pricing, if they so wish. In the end though, akirby, we are arguing a moot point. Nobody, short of an A/Z Plan member, or the mistress of a Dealership owner, is going to negotiate a better deal than the X-Plan on their own. Can we still be friends? :beerchug:

Hi chriscav. Well, thanks for at least referring to me as a gentleman! :D I'll try to keep this short and concise. Concerning your thoughts on the X-Plan, trust me, you cannot negotiate a better price on your own, unless you either qualify for the direct A/Z Employee and Family plan, or you are the Dealer owner's brother. With an X-Plan PIN, the dealer must show you the invoice, cannot charge you any extra "Documentation" fees (although many will try) etc. etc. You will get a starting price that is below Dealer invoice, and then still be eligible for all rebates and cash bonuses. Plus as an example, currently there is an extra $500 X-Plan cash bonus for X-Plan buyers. Try getting a look at the "real" invoice on your own (not a copy with a lot of suspiciously blacked out and rewritten areas)! In 15 years, I have helped approximately 25 friends and neighbors with X-Plan purchases. I tell them all to first go out and negotiate their best price at the Dealer. After they get the best price they can find, go back with the X-Plan Pin and see which price is lower. No one has ever been able to get a better price on their own. Not one, 25 and 0. That is pretty good backing for my stance on this subject. I have no axe to grind, and don't make a dime on these X-Plan sales. So believe me, if someone offers you an X-Plan PIN take it. You have nothing to lose, and at the very least, you can see the actual invoice. Good luck, and Happy New Year! :hyper:

Hi chriscav. Perhaps you already know this, and if you do I apologize. You have several options to enable you to get the car you would like. For example, did you know you can special order a car exactly the way you would like it optioned out? This is possible with Domestic manufacturer's vehicles, but not most imports. It will usually take 6-8 weeks for your car to be built and delivered (it even has your name on the window sticker). If you need the car sooner, you can have your Dealer do a search to see if another Dealer has the car you are looking for (they trade cars like this all the time). These are two methods, that surprisingly, many people do not know about. Unfortunately, the Dealer's sales people do not always let people know of these options, as the Dealer would prefer to sell a car they already have on the lot. Good luck.

Hi Boz! :hyper: Yes, you are a conquest! A conquest sale is a buyer from a non-Ford (Ford, Lincoln/Mercury) brand. Yes, I know Ford is the majority holder of Mazda, but you are still considered a conquest sale. Congratulations!

Hi skarlad. The back up sensor system is not available on the MKZ, so doubtful on the Milan. The keypad is available on the MKZ (in fact I think it is standard). I am not sure if it is available on the Milan. Good luck!

Hi Boz, thanks! My wife and I love the car. MSRP was $31,775 (we purchased, I don't care for leasing). We bought the FWD model, as I live in NJ, and the weather here does not really warrant AWD. If we get one of those big snows that FWD and Traction Control cannot defeat, I figure we should be staying home anyway :D ! Also figured I would go with the higher mileage and lower cost/complexity. Our first two tanks of gas, which have been a combination of short trips and some highway driving, have averaged 22 mpg. We ordered the alloy (like a charcoal gray) exterior, with light stone interior. The light stone is really beautiful in the MKZ. The seats, lower two thirds of the door panels and lower three quarters of the dash are all a light gray color. The top third of the door panels, top quarter of the dash, the steerinng wheel and carpet are all charcoal gray. There is real dark ebony wood trim across the dash, door panels and steering wheel. The center stack and all buttons are satin aluminum. All of the instrument and control lighting is a very nice looking white color, with some red and blue coloring in the HVAC controls. Looks great at night. The car really comes pretty loaded at base price. We optioned it with the 17" chrome wheels, HID headlights, and the heated and air conditioned seats (heated are standard). We did not get a moonroof (wife and I don't care for it, and I need the better headroom without it), NAV system (as I get older, I like not knowing where the hell I am :D), or Sirius Radio. Another plus, my father was a Ford retiree, so my family still gets an employee purchase plan price, and that saved us a bundle off the MSRP. I was looking seriously at the MKZ/Fusion/Milan, and the Five Hundred/Montego. Have always been a Ford man . After driving all of them extensively, the refinement, driving dynamics and styling sold us on the MKZ. For me though, a big selling point was the new 3.5 liter engine. I intentionally waited for the changeover to order the new MKZ. Don't get me wrong, the 3.0 liter is a fantastic motor, but the 3.5 liter engine's added power and refinement really transforms the car and raises it to another level. My wife liked the styling and refinement of the MKZ the best, so that sealed the deal. No matter which car, be it MKZ, Zephyr, Fusion or Milan, I think we all got a good deal on some beautiful cars! Good luck everyone!

Hi everyone. I know I'm doing a little nit-picking here, but the 3.5 liter engine was actually first available in the Lincoln MKZ, which has been available since approximately early October. I received mine on 11/21/06. Good luck with your cars everyone!

Hi Boz. I'm driving a 2007 MKZ. Picked it up 11/21. My wife and I love it. The car I had the headlight bulb problem with was a Town Car, but changing bulb brands to Sylvania ended the premature failures. Good luck with the Fusion, they are really good looking cars!

Hello Boz. Just a word of advice on changing headlight bulbs (and forgive me if you already know this), but be absolutely sure you do not touch the glass portion of the bulbs with your fingers at all. If you get any dirt, grease fingerprints etc. on the glass portion, it will cause premature failure due to heat buildup in that area of the bulb. You also must also be very careful when inserting the bulb to be sure it does not touch anything that could dirty it, for the same reason. If you should touch the bulb or dirty it at all (even if it is not obvious to the naked eye), wipe it clean with de-natured alcohol. As far as your Focus bulb failures, that is highly unusual. I was wondering, were you using Phillips bulbs at the time. I had a string of headlight bulb failures about 6 years ago, when I was purchasing Phillips bulbs from my local auto parts store. Seemed to be an isolated problem with quality control on a particular few lots of bulbs around that time. Owner exchanged them, but it was still annoying to have to replace them so often (not his fault). I actually had about four go bad in an eight month period before I finally gave up and purchased another brand (Sylvania, I believe), from another store. Sorry for the long post, and good luck. Edit: Sorry, I am not a fast typer, and you answered while I was writing the above. I now see you know not to touch the bulbs. Perhaps they were defective bulbs , such as my Phillips adventure?

Hi Boz. You are very welcome! Yes, there is a glove compartment light in the MKZ. The light is enabled when the Parking or Headlights are on. We picked up the Lincoln on 11/21, and now have about 400 miles on it. We love it! I agree completely that these three cars should be real winners for Ford! Good luck with your new Fusion. They are beautiful cars!

Hi urnews. It is for CD's. Mine holds 4 CD's in retail cases. My guess is it would hold 7-8 of the thinner CD-R cases It is mentioned in my owners manual (Lincoln MKZ), so should probably be somewhere in the Fusion and Milan manuals also. I actually found it perfect for napkins/tissues that I would usually keep in the glove compartment for emergencies. Good luck with your new car!