dcw1

I have a 2010 Fusion that has an odd problem. 150,000 miles. About a year ago while driving it had sort of a misfire at a red light and started to run very rough. Check engine light came on and it was flashing also as I finished driving home. I searched the problem and symptoms on various forums. Common suggestion was spark plugs and/or ignition coils. So I replaced all plugs and coils. Started it up and it ran very smooth with no problems. For a few months. Then I noticed in the MORNING it starts fine and runs fine. But if I drive for about 20 minutes to go to a store, when I start it up after coming out of the store, it is rough again. And it stays rough until I turn it off and let it sit——it usually needs a few hours or overnight to then start and run ok. But if I go somewhere and shut it off, when I start it again, it is rough. Codes were were saying misfire (P201 and P301) on cylinder 1. Anyway, I figured maybe I got a bad plug or coil pack with the initial repair. So I accessed the plug and coil and swapped both the #1 plug and coil to a cylinder on the front of the engine. Also checked the plug gaps and made sure they were good. Started it up and seemed fine. But that was normal—— initial start up and run of the day is ok. So I crossed my fingers and the next day stopped at a store. Came back out and……. Good grief! Still has the same problem. Initial start up and run of the day is fine. But when I turn it off, it re-starts but runs/drives rough upon restarting. If I let it sit for multiple hours (like overnight) it starts and runs fine …….until I shut it off and restart within a relatively short amount of time. I’m not sure how long it has to sit “off” before it starts and runs ok. Overnight gets it to start and run ok. Sitting off all day at work also seems to be ok. But if I drive it in the morning and turn it off for say 20 minutes or even to get gas, it starts and runs rough and the “check engine” light comes on. This problem makes running errands a pain. Or I have to leave my car running while I go into the store. Anyway, any thoughts/comments/recommendations would be appreciated. Thx Regards,

Seems my suggestion was blocked.

Wow, I love the hits this thread is getting. Right, I totally agree I didn't get the answers I wanted to hear. "Go see a mechanic" and "RTFM" and "this is an A/C problem so only pros can help you" don't count as answers I want to hear. Only WWWPerfA_ZN0W posted a meaningful response. My A/C seems to be working fine now. I obviously still have a very slow leaking Schrader valve that may need to be fixed if the original cap does not totally stop or significantly slow the leak. I'll deal with that if the system runs down again. Maybe that will take 3 days or 3 months or 3 years or never. For now, that leaking Schrader valve is staying put until the system runs down again--hopefully never as I tightened the plastic cap on very tightly. Thus, right now I don't think I need a machine to detect another "possible" or "phantom" leak. As I said, I got lucky and can actually SEE and HEAR my leak. I think the more prudent and cost-effective thing is for me to fix (if necessary) is the leak that I actually can SEE an HEAR. Then, and only then, take it to a mechanic if it still seems to be leaking somewhere else AND I can't find that other leak. (but some here suggest not to even bother looking for or listening for another leak--I need a machine). I call nonsense on that because I found one very fixable leak with my eyes and ears only. Is that common? No. But it can't hurt to actually TRY to find it before running to an A/C technician. Do you see the difference in suggestions? One person says look for the leak yourself since you may find it. And here is how to look for it. The other immediately says you're too stupid or its impossible to find the leak, so go to a mechanic. If the system was leaking oil, wouldn't I have perhaps seen oil on the driveway/engine/system lines? Perhaps you meant to suggest that I visually inspect for oil leaks before taking it to a mechanic. See the difference? I suspect not. The A/C seems to be working despite the answers here. In fact I only got a problem laundry list of "could be" without even anyone suggesting it may be a $10 low refrigerant problem. And that laundry list included some things I could have looked at or done as well---like removing debris. But was that even suggested? No. It was buried in with "You're too stupid to work on such a sophisticated system. Go to a mechanic." And now I am cheap because I don't want to buy a $37 tool that I'll use once in a lifetime. Interesting my posts and responses are much more informative than anything I got here. Hopefully someone with a "cool driver's side and a warm passenger side" will use the above information I provided here and at my initial thread and save some money by checking the refrigerant first instead of running to an A/C mechanic immediately. It may not be your answer but it may work and keep some money in your pocket. I would suggest also visually checking the Schrader valve ports and all lines for leaks as well. Remove the cap and visually see if there is leaking oil or listen for a leak. Is there oil pooled in any locations? Or don't bother looking and just run to the A/C technician. See the difference in responses? It is fairly obvious. Thanks to WWWPerfA_ZN0W as he actually made a useful suggestion here that I had not thought about----- see if the $37 tool can be rented. An excellent actual suggestion. Akirby, is WWWPerfA_ZN0W "cheap" as well for making such a suggestion? Sounds like it. I also suspect though that I am too stupid to use the tool properly. Or there probably is another leak somewhere else so I am wasting my time. I actually found a video that discusses using metal valve caps to tightly seal off a Schrader valve port. The guy said if you use metal caps don't over-tighten them. If you tighten it too much it can cause the valve port threads/opening to flare or mushroom. If you eventually do have to remove the Schrader valve anyway, the flared threads make getting the Schrader valve out VERY difficult. Messed up threads and an irretrievable Schrader valve may mean replacing the entire valve assembly. My work here is done. If you can't make a suggestion besides "RTFM" or "go to a mechanic", don't bother posting. Especially if you can't handle someone questioning your suggestion.

Too funny. The thread I started entitled "driver's side cool, passenger side warm" has been locked. Censorship is alive and well. Anyway, below would have been my last post in that thread but again, the few who control this site have locked that thread. So go read that thread first to get the flavor of what's going on. My suggestion as to my vehicle problem and how I fixed the problem is at the end of this post. Perhaps I'll get kicked out of the forum after this. I love how me being very specific with my questions is bad attitude. Or actually just asking more detailed follow-up questions is bad attitude. I actually came back after doing something that appears to fix my problem. No one even suggested that cool air on drivers side, warm air on passenger side could be a result of low refrigerant. It seems I may have answered a very big question here: imbalance in cooling MAY BE caused merely by low refrigerant. There are tons of posts by people looking for that answer. Not every imbalance in cooling will be low refrigerant. But it seems at least possible that low refrigerant is the problem. I am not positive at this point but in my mind, I may have avoided a huge A/C repair bill. "telling people to RTFM" is an appropriate comment and is good attitude? Censorship (killing this thread) also was suggested by those who don't like what is being said. If you don't like what is being said here, stop visiting this thread. Unbelievable. You don't like what is being said so you run to the administrator to shut me up. How decidedly un-American. Equating an A/C system to a medical issue is ridiculous as well. But if someone wants to ask for advice on a medical forum, answer the question. They know what a doctor is and don't need directions to their local physician. Look at my post on July 22 at 12:40. I asked very specific questions in response to the suggestion that low refrigerant causes freezing up as opposed to my vehicle symptoms. The only reply was to go to an A/C tech. No discussion, nothing. I think it is clear from this forum that most of the comments are trying to be helpful. And I suspect that the vast majority of the recommendations are valid and decent advice. But it sure is clear to me that when someone questions the advice they get, there is no discussion. Its just, "You don't know what you are doing, go see a mechanic." Finally, perhaps you don't realize this but if had taken my vehicle to a mechanic (as suggested numerous times), I risk them saying, "Seems your compressor is shot. That'll be $1800." How do I counter that? What do I say to that? "No, I'll take it somewhere else". I then get, "That'll be $99 first for our diagnosis that isn't guaranteed unless we get in there and do the work." I'd rather not put myself in that situation if I can avoid it. THAT is what this forum is about or should be about. Not half-baked answers and then suggesting I go see someone who could totally take advantage of me. $99 isn't going break the bank but I sure have better things to do with $99 than flush it down the toilet. Answer the question asked, make meaningful suggestions, or don't reply. So, if your car is suffering the same symptoms in my initial post, I would suggest checking the refrigerant levels first. It has been suggested here that a low reading on the low pressure side may not actually indicate low refrigerant. But with my vehicle, adding refrigerant when the low pressure side reading was low has worked for almost a week now. Air is still very cold on driver and passenger sides. And then see if you can find the leak (if there is one). My leak was easy to spot once the pressure was up. I could actually hear it. And hopefully, you can fix the leak yourself. But if you can't fix it yourself, you'll know what and where the leak is rather than blindly taking your vehicle to a mechanic. At that point, if you can pinpoint the problem, you simply can call around for the best repair price. Or go the other route as suggested here because you have an A/C issue. Just immediately take the vehicle to a mechanic and perhaps pay $479 (if you are lucky) for a $15 repair.

Please re-read my posts. I specifically said I noticed the Schrader valve was leaking very slowly. Not one suggestion about that. I see nothing wrong with telling someone to check to see if there is debris behind the fan or radiator. That's buried in the laundry list. Is that something a master mechanic needs to fix? No. But instead of you suggesting that, you jump right to go see a mechanic. Cooling fans not coming on? That's in the laundry list also. Do you suggest that I check those? No. Go see a mechanic. Can us idiots not change out a cooling fan? Apparently not. Telling someone to read the manual is condescending and useless. A better response would be YOU read the manual and tell them what they need. And if you think the answer is in the manual and the person is just lazy, just don't respond. The idea that not telling me to go to a mechanic is reckless is condescending as well. You are so right. Us idiots need you elites to protect us. Tell me to see a mechanic right off the bat. Just what I was looking for. If someone asks a question, answer the question or don't respond. I and most people don't need you to tell me to go see a professional or check the manual. Telling someone to do so just shows that you don't have any idea what the problem is. But people posting questions here are looking for answers, not directions to their local mechanic. A/C still working fine. All others posting A/C questions, please stop looking for answers here. Immediately go see your A/C mechanic regardless of symptoms, age or value of the vehicle, your budget, or your skill level. It's way too complicated for you to handle.

OK. So there can be a lot going on and I appreciate the responses. I will say though that again you are simply throwing out the laundry list of things that could be wrong without reading or analyzing my vehicle's symptoms. This thread was started by me describing a very specific condition with my A/C unit. I suspect that 3/4 of the problems you describe in your last post don't fit my vehicle's symptoms. For example, I don't think I have accumulated debris around the radiator or a bad cooling fan. And I didn't just dump a can of refrigerant in the system. I specifically checked the low side pressure before adding any refrigerant. If responding to posts here tries your patience, then simply stop responding. We are adults here. I know generally what my A/C will cost to fix if I totally screw it up. It was screwed up to begin with. Telling people they need to see their mechanic is not what this forum is for. That's like telling people to go find the manual on line. That's not helpful. Rather these forums designed to potentially help people avoid spending hundreds of dollars needlessly. Given your posts here, (and in particular the last two sentences of your last post) there should not even be an A/C category----just take your car right to the mechanic. It's too complicated for the general public to handle. My last comment will be that you have not once made a suggestion as to what you think was (is) wrong with my vehicle's A/C given the initial symptoms, the low side pressure readings, and the way it is acting now that is had refrigerant added. Given your obvious extensive knowledge I would expect at least a possible diagnosis as opposed to an endless list of "could be" -- many of which don't even make sense given the symptoms.

OK. So, the low pressure side does not tell me the entire picture. I can see that such would make sense. I'll take your word for it but an explanation would be helpful. Is there a way to test the high pressure side or the "total charge weight"? How does one test or check the "total charge weight"? Also, what's the likelihood that the low pressure side is fine yet the high pressure side or the total charge weight is way off? I know that we are dealing with some unknowns here but it would seem that there are certain likelihoods or possibilities. In other words, if it is almost unheard of that the low pressure side would be fine but the high pressure side would be way off, then I can weigh those possibilities and make a decision. Especially if the system seems to be working fine for the moment. Or is it common for the low pressure side to be fine but the high pressure side to be messed up when the system seems to be working for the moment? I appreciate the responses but you are talking in such generalities. You are also telling me I can't do certain things "right". Tell me what I need to read the high pressure side. And tell me how the high pressure side could be screwed up even when the low pressure side is fine? What would cause that? What would possibly need to be fixed if that was the case? I certainly believe you when you say that could be the case----but explanations are necessary. Also, what equipment don't I have? "Cost prohibitive" is a subjective term. What may be cost prohibitive for one person may be lunch money for another person. Is the tool needed to read the high pressure side a $25 tool or a $5000 tool? Or is it simply unavailable to the general public? If the tool is $25, maybe I invest in that rather than pay a shop $79 to test the system and tell me everything appears fine.

1. I am assuming that the reusable hose and gauge that came with the refrigerant is somewhat accurate. The low side pressure reading was in the low teens. I am assuming that is why I was getting barely cooled air out of the driver vents when the system was on. 2. The refrigerant (R134-A) I used had no sealers in it. I read the label and made sure to purchase refrigerant with no additional sealants or additives. 3. I don't believe the system had "no" refrigerant in it. The low pressure side was low but it did have a reading both when the system was on and off. If the system had no refrigerant in it, wouldn’t the pressure gauge read “0”? If the system had pressure in it, how could air get into the system? It’s like a vehicle tire as it slowly leaks. Or a balloon with water in it. The leaking tire or balloon does not automatically draw in air. The only way air gets in is if the pressure is equalized or the pressure is lower inside than the pressure outside. Given I had a pressure reading on the A/C low side when the A/C system was off and on, I don’t see how air could have gotten in. I may be wrong here but I need some explanation. Also, I found the leak. It is a very, very, very slow leak from the Schrader value on the low pressure side inlet. I messed with the Schrader valve pin by pushing it upward with a tiny screwdriver (used for eyeglasses) and it slowed the leak even more. I then put the valve cap on tightly. The valve cap is plastic so I don’t know how well it will further seal that leak but maybe it will slow it down some. As far as replacing the parts inside the valve, see my recent post, “low pressure valve leaking”. I understand a special tool is needed. But I am still looking around to see if there is a decent valve cap that will actually seal the valve off completely. The purpose of these forums is not to generally point people to a mechanic and say, “Take your car there.” The purpose of these forums to do to the exact opposite---save $$ by doing stuff that you can do yourself. Telling me this isn't something I can fix is not helpful. There are tons of videos showing Schrader valves being replaced and keeping the system sealed using a special tool to avoid air intake. I may end up doing that as the tool is only about $35. But again, if a tighter fitting cap will totally seal off the leak (or at least slow it down) I don’t mind adding half a can of $5.00 non-sealant refrigerant each year. If in a month my A/C system is still working fine, maybe I’ll just leave it and wait for it to get low again. Since Sunday, the A/C has been working fine--- so far so good. I will ask this though: If the system is going to crap out because there was air in it, what timeframe am I looking at? What would the symptoms be of air in the line and that affecting performance? Are we talking complete shutdown, faded cooling over time, noises, explosions, etc? I guess a final question would be is there any difference between refrigerant one would get from a mechanic and the refrigerant one buys in a can at the auto parts store (assuming one buys a can with no sealers or additives)?

Right, VALVE. Spellchecker seems to automatically what to change it to value.

In late July I started this thread (driver's side cool/passenger side warm) and have basically been living with the problem. I was starting to think about taking the vehicle in given the July 22 comment above when I drove my son's very old Tribute (2001). Its funny because I actually borrowed the Tribute so that I would be in a vehicle with a/c for my errand. Well, no a/c in the Tribute either. Anyway, I get back from my errand and I say, "Hey, the Tribute has no a/c. How long has that been?" He's says, "So long, I can't even remember." So, I figure maybe the Tribute refrigerant just needs to be refreshed. And it's the vehicle the kids drive and its pretty beat up and I am not spending hundreds of dollars to fix the a/c. Thus, I spend the $18 at Walmart on a large can of refrigerant and charge up the system. If you have never done it, it is very simple. The can of 134A that I bought had a reusable hose and pressure gauge as well for additional cans. The Tribute took a lot of refrigerant and started to cycle on and off while I was filling it. Finally, it stayed on when enough refrigerant was put into the system. So far so good. Given that went well, I figured why not attach the hose and gauge and just check the pressure on the low side on my Fusion. Well, it was very low. So, I added some refrigerant and as the pressure climbed, the air coming out of the vents started to get cold. I got the refrigerant pressure up to where it needed to be and the a/c is now pumping out very cold air. Both sides (driver and passenger) are cold as well. I was still concerned though because although the Fusion's system was working, there must be a leak somewhere. Then when I took the hose attachment off the filler stem, I noticed there was a very small amount of fluid in the filler valve stem and it was bubbling slightly. The Schrader value appears to be leaking. So I started a new thread on this forum just yesterday. Finally, my leak seems to be the Schrader value. It looks replaceable by me but you need a special tool. I'd rather not buy the tool needed to remove and replace the valve parts as it (the tool) likely will never be used again. I screwed the current valve stem cap on really tightly and maybe that will slow or stop the leak even more. Ideally, I will replace the valve. I asked in the new thread if anyone knows of a way to just use a better/different cap to fully seal that leaking valve. Anyway, I am posting this because if you have the same symptoms as mine (driver's side cool/passenger warm), it may be you are really low on refrigerant. What caused that is a different issue. But, if the leak is slow enough, maybe the vehicle can get through summer before additional refrigerant needs to be added. Or maybe you'll get lucky and see or hear the leak when refrigerant gets added and the pressure goes up.

I have a small leak at the low side valve. It is not in the metal tube. Rather it is coming from down in the valve itself. I assume the seals on the Schrader valve are bad. There is a Mastercool core replacement tool that will allow the innards of the valve to be removed without releasing the R134 or allow air into the system. It seems pretty easy. The tool is about $37. That's not cost prohibitive but I hate to buy a tool that I will likely never use again. So my question is: Is there a cap that could be put on the valve stem that is air tight rather than replace the core of the valve? The valve cap that is on there now is plastic and seems more designed just to keep dirt out.

Thanks for the replies!! If it is low on refrigerant and a common sign is freezing up, wouldn't I get ice cold a/c air initially? I remember our house a/c was low on refrigerant and that is what happened. The entire coil block would freeze up and then I would have no air flow even though the system was running . For the few days before I had refrigerant added, I would simply turn off the a/c unit (leaving the "fan" on) and let it melt. You could hear the big ice blocks falling off. Once clear of ice, I would then get really cold a/c air for a while until it froze up again. In my Fusion, I am not getting that pattern at all. There is no loss of air flow. Drivers side vent air is cool (not cold); passenger side vent air is warm or basically the cabin temp. From your post I assume the blocked expansion valve would cause my Ford's symptoms as opposed to the freezing up? Where on a 2010 Ford Fusion would a blocked expansion valve be and how hard to get to? Thx again. Regards, DAVE

I read that it could be just low on refrigerant. If refrigerant is low, only part of the evaporator coils get cold and the air going over the cold coils is directed to the driver's side. The air circulating over the warmer coils gets directed to the passenger side. Does this sound plausible?

What will that tell me? Also I tested the temperature controls for both sides and they seem to work.

I have a 2010 Ford Fusion and the a/c is acting up. I know there are a lot of threads and comments about this issue but none seem to address my specific problem. I have a dual zone or climate system. Driver and passenger each have their own control knob for heat and a/c. I am only going to refer to the main vents along the front of the dashboard. Basically there are 4 -- each side has one way over by the window (left and right) and then the 2 in the middle are side by side right above the radio. No unusual noises or odors coming from a/c unit or car or vents. All four vents blow air at the same speed and strength. Adjusting the fan speed up and down properly adjusts the air flow fine in all vents. But when the a/c is on, only the two vents on the driver’s side seem to blow cooler air. I say cooler because the air coming out if not frigid. I don't have a thermometer but if I had to guess I would say it is in the low- to mid-70s. It cools the car off but slowly. And when you have latent heat built up in the dashboard/seats/windows from the sun, it takes quite a while. On the other hand, the air coming out of the two vents on the right (passenger side), are noticeably warmer. In fact I would say almost warm. It is most likely the same temperature as the cabin. Air "flow" on passenger side is fine. But the actual temperature is higher than the two vents on the driver's side. So I basically shut the passenger vents off with the louvers to get the car cooled. I would say over time, the air coming out of the one passenger vent in the center does start to slightly cool down a little more. But it never seems to get down to the mid-70s level coming out of the left vents. Finally, if I am sitting in traffic on a hot day, the cooler air coming out of the driver's side starts to warm up. When I start moving again, it cools down but again only to the mid-70s. In this Atlanta summer weather, it makes for very warm rides home if traffic is thick. If the car is moving, its bearable after some of the latent heat starts to dissipate and the dash cools off to "hot" as opposed to "scalding". Sitting and not moving, I might as well have the windows open. So, I have seen all kinds of suggestions from low refrigerant to stuck actuators. Given what I have described above, what would be the order of repairs that you would try. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and if I spend $50 and a few hours fixing an actuator that isn't broken I am ok with that. As long as there is a possibility that such a repair would work. I just want to know where to start or is what I am describing impossible to reach given my skill level and time that I should just take the vehicle in. In a nutshell: driver's side vent air is cool (not cold); passenger side vent air is warm (probably temperature of vehicle cabin); air flow is fine, (but sitting in traffic makes even driver's side warmer until moving again). Any help, suggestions or comments are appreciated. Thx. Regards, DAVE