2ndNewFordGuy

Turns out, there was a valid technical reason why, the JBL GTO 939's showed to my ears no noticeable bump up from the Pioneer TS-0690r's they replaced. The 3ohm GTO's SHOULD have sounded "MORE" than the 4 ohm Pioneers. But they didn't! BECAUSE: Freq response. The GTO's freq response is 45-21k HZ 45hz on the low side is "meh", just ok for bass. Poor for Sub woofer substitute . The TS-0690's on the other hand, must have been considerably PRICIER in their day, freq response, 25-32k Hz. 25 is super low for a "full-range" 3X. 25hz IS actually Sub-woofer territory. SO despite the OHM difference, (25% better in favor of the GTO's) because of the lower, much lower, frequency response the Pioneer's were utilizing more of the SUB-WOOFER-only freqs being sent to them. Which would, could, explain if the 3 ohm JBL's didn't seem better, or "more". SO REMINDER, 2 ohm speakers is what Ford had in there (rear deck) so if you're replacing them with 6X9 full-range's, really seek 2ohm. and really seek 35hz as a minimum, ideally lower, for the low end. OR 2 ohm actual sub-woofers, but they won't be 6X9's. They'll be 6.5" round and fitting them in might be tricky. - - - - and that's the bottom line - - - EOM

more mea-culpa. Turns out 6" round sub woofers don't exist. 6.5" is the smallest. But if the cut-out diameter is under six inch they should fit. I found, CT Sounds TROPO-6.5-D2 They're 2 OR 1ohm, which should come in handy if you're sticking with the factory amp. Cut-out diameter 5.83", topside diameter, 6.9' which means screw-holes might actually line up

If this is in your 2016 SE safe to assume it's in my 2017 SE sooo, more crow for me, there IS a separate sub-woofer amp, such as it is... Looking closely at the pic what caught my eye was the vacant row of speaker wire outputs under the ones in use, and, if they're not "vacant" inside the plug, what are they outputting? (frequency-wise/ohm-wise) I know those are the speaker-outs because the colors match the blue&white / Red&White, on the deck speakers.

Thanks. I'll see if I can re-create that. I've also noticed that if when you stop, you instantly, lift and then re-press the break, like a 'double-tap', it stays running. usually...

My obsessively well-maintained Fusion has no noticeable vibrations particularly at low idle. There is a very distinctive, shudder and sound when I tap the start button. It is ALMOST, but not quite identical to the sound and vibration I feel when the auto-start re-starts the car. The auto start is, by comparison, slightly muted and about a half second shorter. For the record, I've decided I'm going to stop looking for ways to kill it. I'll tap the button as often as I think of it but otherwise I can live with it. As they say in the military, not a hill to die on.

EXCELLENT post. and you even noted your source. ? You have for me successfully eliminated the starter from the chain of components potentially experiencing adverse-excess wear as a by-product of auto-stop-start. Good info. Very informative. Thank You

yes but at this point I'm talking only about stops of 2 seconds or less. If the start is generating enough energy that I can FEEL it, there's no way that's not more wear than idling for 1 second or even 2. respectfully.

Thanks man. Your answer is of reasonable comfort. I really just needed to know it wasn't a no-brainer. The mech also said Ford had issued a re-engineered part due to this problem, so it, supposedly then was a potential re-call, but the "frequency #" of Fusions experiencing the problem wasn't high enough, so, no free-fix for me. I definitely have my hard-copy manual. every scrap that came in that glove box is still there. Only the window sticker was relocated. So I will make sure I locate that emrg shift release button. Thanks again

Wasn't sure where to put this so apologies if this ain't it. ABOUT a year ago I came out of my local supermarket and started the car and then discovered the car was stuck in park. Nothing I did from behind the wheel helped. I called a guy, he brought a flat-bed and a rent-a-wreck for me. long story sort, he replaced (he said) "the shifter" itself, (right below the console shift-dial) (I assumed "below" since I could tell by looking at it the part I grab with my hand it wasn't new) and, he said, flashed the computer. about $900 in total. Is it true that simply pulling a battery cable waiting 30 seconds and putting it back on would have cleared this lock? did I get hosed?

better answer. If you're really worried about MPG and/or emissions and/or the environment, get an EV. In less than 10 years the only IC cars available will be used and gas stations will be like finding a charging station is now. (ok, maybe 12-13 years.) I have NO doubt my next new car will be an EV.

My fuel economy, according to the computer, since replacing the battery, and start stop coming back on, is not better. DOWN by at least 1 mpg. BUT the battery got replaced just as the weather was turning. So it's been almost all "winter driving" which typically means a slight drop in MPG. That said, before, 18 month avg, 28.5-29.0, so far, after, about 26-27mpg. I watch my tire pressure like a hawk and maintain the same feather-foot driving habit very consistently.

Mine stopped working to. I was glad at the time to see it go. Turned out it stops working like that when your battery falls below a certain level. It's really a nice canary in the coal mine. Mine started fine and seemed otherwise fine, for almost 2 years with stop start not working. The second warning is when the dash displays "shutting down to preserve batter life". Replaced the battery and Stop Start popped right back on.

I put up with it for 4 years before looking in to disabling it. The conclusion I've come to is I don't want to kill it. What I would pay $89 for is an "eliminator" thing that rather than kill it outright, simply added 3 or 4 second (ish) delay, as 90%+ of the stops are for less than that, that would eliminate 90% of the extra engine wear associated with starting, while at the same time KEEPING the more welcome-auto-shutdown stops of of more than 3-4 seconds. "All of the components are upgraded to handle the extra wear" that may be true, to a degree, but, exactly which components, exactly how, to what degree of effectiveness, not clear. What's NOT unclear, is the "extra wear" part.

Thanks! Good to know. You'll notice I DID say "supposed experts" in my original post. So I'm never locked in on whatever I want to believe or heard from "Bobs-not-my-uncle-on-FB". I DO still wonder though, why the decision was made to stop the engine after (what seems like) one second or less on the brake, rather than make it like a 3 or 4 second delay.? Of course the gold standard would have been to make it configurable in the settings with options for 2, 5 or 7 seconds...any 2 choices greater than 0.7 seconds Speaking of settings, why would there be a setting to "uncheck the box" and turn it off, if this isn't going to do anything different than tapping the switch on the console? Both reset-on when you start the car. To Be Clear I'm not challenging your numbers on the gas/idle-start/gulp. But, may I ask, how you know, ""0.6 seconds" ? thanks!

OK so I have a basic question now, about Stop-Start. I don't know if this warrants new thread or not. I have heard from more than one place, different supposed "experts" that when you start a car, any car, manually or auto-start, there's a "gulp" of gas, AND that gulp, depending on the car-age/technology all variables considered, that "gulp" of gas, is equivalent to, is the same amount of gas the engine needs to IDLE for, (depending the car), anywhere from, 3 to 10 minutes. SO IF true, then, let's shave another minute off that and say the 1.5L-EB is, conservatively, only "gulping" enough gas to idle for 2 minutes. That being the case, wouldn't it be safe to assume, that anytime, every time, stop-start stops the car for less than, (lets peal another minute off), and say, less than ONE minute, (which is 99% of the auto stops), it should actually be COSTING you gas. OFFICIALLY the line is it's for "FUEL-efficiency, and emissions". I call BS on the former and say this is 100% about the latter. Reducing emissions in URBAN, city stop and go driving. SO if this is really the case, whether or not, this feature is worth the extra wear and tear on your STARTER, and your EXPENSIVE "AGM" battery, on top of NOT saving you any gas.... becomes seriously debatable IMHO. Discuss.

OK, I scanned this whole thread to ensure I wasn't posting something already said. THERE IS a SIMPLE EASY way to permanently disable stop-start. The only catch with this hack, is it takes out the REMOTE START feature at the same time. Which even though I rarely use the remote start, I think it's so neat put this hack back. But in case that's not a deal breaker for YOU I'll show it to you anyway. TO THE LEFT of the BATTERY, there's a connector, on the firewall, pull that and stop-start will no more. (as well as remote start) There's "clip-lock" on the switch you have to lift-out with a small flat-blade screwdriver to "release" the plug,. and then there's a lot wiggling and pulling, (WHILE you're holding the lock up), mine was a bidge to get off. when I realized this also kilt my remote start I put it back. pardon the picture qty it was taken as part of the battery changing process, (thank you stop-start) and just happened to capture the referenced connector. Full disclosure, this hack was on UTube. (But he left some stuff out. Like getting the connector off might not be a breeze. and no mention of the clip-lock.

I notice it on mine. If the engine is well-tuned/maintained clean oil, it's so smooth you can barely tell it's on. So in that respect, it's almost un-noticable on the "stop". I'm not reminded I forgot to hit the switch until I lift my foot off the break, and the "start". That I notice. Positively not defective. probably comes down more to one's definition of "noticeable"

I don't know if Ford originally intended this to be permanent "off" but it's not. I does what pressing the switch does. and similarly re-sets ("ON") when you shut-down-restart.

Are you talking about the "s" button in the center of the shifter? If so does that stay selected upon shut off & restart? Is your fusion a Sport trim? Details please?

Yep.

So, these happen to be, "RED WOLF Car 4 Door Speaker Wire Harness Connector Replacement for 2000-2014 Ford F150/250 Escape, Mustang, Mercury, 2005-2013 Mazda 3 6..." They also fit 2017 Fusion. (no they don't!) If you search "ford speaker wire adapter" you'll see multiple brands/choices, same connector UPDATE. There ARE connectors LIKE THESE commonly available. BE ADVISED, THESE AIN'T IT! Very close but no cigar! Make sure the ones you get specify your exact model and year. Opps.

I can totally verify that "the two rear speakers are, (intended to serve as), the subwoofer." the only problem is they're not sub-woofer speakers ford put in there. AND for all intents and purposes, 6X9 sub woofers don't exist. Ford got around the need for a separate amp by making the rear deck speakers 2ohm. (hint) replace them with 2ohm. (or 3ohm, or 2.3ohm, depending how much you want to know they're there) 2ohm will be the loudest, 3ohm somewhat less.

If you have the 11 speaker premium then, see my previous response this thread. BUT ]If you have the six speaker I cannot swear to that your rear deck speakers are doing. If they're wired to receive only sub woofer freq's then they may seem like nothing is coming out. The way to confirm that is to check by putting your HAND on the grill. If you can feel them on but not hear, they're wired for subs, but the speakers are not that so.... hence .... you think they're busted, Replace them with some 2 or 3 ohm good quality 6X9s and you'll be happy. round 6" subs even better, if you can find or don't mind making screw holes. just make sure they're 2ohm.

I have the 11 speaker "premium" (top for the SE) in my 2017. In mine the REAR DECK Speakers are supposed to be serving as the subwoofer the system actually doesn't have, but it does. Wait what? The leads going to those rear deck speakers are sending a sub-woofer-frequency signal. Since the speakers in there LOOK LIKE and ARE regular mid-range 6X9's, it's normal to expect to hear regular mid-range frequency coming from them. You don't because they're being sent only sub-woofer range frequency's. AND SINCE the speakers in there totally ARE NOT subwoofers, you hear almost, or, nothing. Replace the speakers with some good 6X9's with some decent low end and you'll hear them light up, but only bass. no mids no highs. and make sure they're 2ohm speakers, the ones in there are 2ohm speakers which means for the best shot at HEARING them you want nothing over 3ohm, ideally you want the upgrade to be 2 ohm speakers. If you really want the biggest bass-upgrade possible without changing the amp, mount a couple of 6" round 2ohm sub-woofers in there. Good news is 2ohm is little more common in sub-woofers than regular speakers. I replaced mine initially, with a pretty decent old pioneer 2 way 4 ohm. and I could hear the difference. JUST. The best way to be know, don't listen. TOUCH. I put my hand on the grill and I could tell they were on. The difference with the 4 ohm speakers to my ear was SUBTLE as well, heck. I have some 2ohm speakers in the mail as we speak. you should actually be able to use the ohm rating as a poor mans eq. 2ohm will get you the most added bass. 3 ohm, slightly less, 4ohm the minimum. And they actually make 2.3 ohm for one more intermediate step. NOW most of the speakers I saw listed on amz don't give the ohm rating in the description. but 90% + will have it in the questions asked section. Just search "ohm" and it'll pop right up.

Probably way too late for SleazyRidr but it was a good question I'm sure others are still wondering. Without a doubt the most complained about aspect of this era Fusion is this non-branded "Premium Audio System with 11 speakers" which sounds great in the brochure but has been such a sore point to so many. Myself included. With regard to to sleazys original list, forget the amp, as gretsch53@reagan pointed out, basically, forget the amp it's not the problem anyway. The speakers are. and to a lesser extent the chincy 3 band equalizer. So skipping right to question #9, " Any suggestions on the first and cheapest place to start to try to improve the quality of the sound"? why yes I do. Factoring in the relative difficulty involved changing any of the speakers, we've all seen the youTube vids that show total dismantling of the door panels or all the trim coming off BOTH SIDES of the back seat to remove the rear deck... very off putting for most folks, some special tools, that pick-thing, a couple broken clips and now there's a rattle....right? So if you could change at least one pair, the most important 2 without all that..... The rear deck at the most important. Why? they're the sub-woofer you didn't know you had. yup. They LOOK like plain old mid-range 6X9's and the speakers Ford put in there are. BUT the signals being routed TO them are frequency filtered for subwoofers. Put a couple of 6x9's in there with some real low end and you'll hear it. But lets back up to that easy install I implied above. If you take a nice bright LED flashlight, in low ambient lighting, and lay it flat-down on the grill it will light up the inside and you can clearly see, exactly where the "clips" are, (NOT really clips), (see attached pics) and knowing where they are, you can then, take small-med short throw flat-blade screwdriver, wedge it in the clip points, gently prod them up you have to do a little at a time switching back and forth to the nearest neighbors. , but only the 3 easiest to reach are needed before you can grab the grill with your hand and with a wiggle and a tiny flex pull it out. Most of the back 'tabs' will remain in a position such that you can re-seat them pushing the grill back on, and you can re-bend the others to seat and, you get the idea, see pics of what mine looked like after going back on this way. The first thing you'll notice once you get the speakers out is they're 2 ohm. 2ohm is how Ford got around the need for subwoofer amp. (Ohm is a measure of resistance. Low ohm speakers take less amp to drive.) Finding 2 ohm speakers is a pain. But not impossible. I put some nice 4 ohm's in there, (Going in I didn't know the ones coming out were 2 ohm so for the moment, I went with what I had), and with only ONE changed out I could hear the difference. everybody's ears and preferences are different. After extensive DD, these are the best options I found. (edited) (all 6X9), Kicker 40PS692 (2 ohm), JBL GX963, 2.3 ohm, Remember only subwoofer feqs are going to these speakers. so you won't be getting any mids-or upper freqs, despite the fact these are all full range speakers but that's the price-point-fit-trade off. And 6X9 actual sub-woofers don't exist. (not on AMZ anyway) This is the compromise, some GOOD bassy full-range 2 or 3 way 6X9's. Hey, I'm just telling y'all what MY EARS told me. (and that sleazyridr's "audio expert" told him) ALTERNATIVELY WHAT you can do, maybe, is six-inch round sub-woofers, under the factory grills who's to know? And, fun fact, 2 ohm speakers are slightly more common in sub-woofers. the only catch will be finding at least 2 screw-holes to line up. You'll probably have to drill to get that 2nd one. That's why I went with the 6X9's. remember do this in low ambient lighting. this is what they looked like AFTER coming off and going back ontabs easily bent to slip back into place. You can see the back-facing ones came out unchanged and when back in nicely;. Correction, just in case, be advised, the JBL GTO939's I bought (came today), the web site had listed as, 2ohm, are in fact 3 ohm. Which I actually am fine with. While they were in the mail, the more I listened to the 4ohm's I had in there, the amount-of, increased "thump" I was getting from the 4ohm had me wondering if, what should have been twice the "presence" of the 2ohm might not have been more than I needed, and the more modest "bump-up" of the 3ohm might not have been a, better for my ears, fit. So then the only remaining "rub" might be physical-fit. The factory cut-outs for the rear-deck 6X9's actually only let the 4ohms in there now, "drop" about 90% in. Far enough, that the nice long screws reached, enough, and the grill could still lay flat. Won't be sure with the GTO's unti I put them in. Which is going to wait until I get the "wiring adapters" coming separately. I'll let you know. BUT EVEN IF I have to get even longer screws and ditch the factory grills, that's fine. the JBL grills look nice enough. UPDATE and, my bad. Just in case anyone is paying attention now or in the future, this is important. I installed the JBL/GTO's today aaaand, the difference in bass, from these 3ohm GTO's and the 4 ohm Pioneer TS-0690R's I had in there already is slim to none. It's basically the same. Still noticeably better than the factory speakers. But the difference from 4ohm to 3ohm, wasn't worth the labor. (mmmm-yum, crow!) SO the take away is if you buy 6X9s for this make SURE they're TWO OHM. and have a good bottom end, (like 40hz or lower) Of the speakers I mentioned above only the Kicker 40PS692 (2 ohm), JBL GX963, 2.3 ohm, should still be considered. Ideally you want 2ohm, 6X9 subs if you can find them. I might try 6" ROUND subs next. For whatever reason 2ohm sub woofers are more common. On the plus side the grills agreed to come-off and go-back on again and still look fine afterwards.