wptski

I think that it showed side to side but that can't be proven because Ford killed the link. Even back to front doesn't happen either. You have SG-II, so if you can find a proper road to test it on. You haven't tried a heavy throttle from a dead stop either or just don't want to say so? What the '07 Workshop Manual stated, I posted above. Yes, it states that it has a heat protection mode but there is only one cable going to the ATC which is the one that operates it. Nothing in the electrical showing a temperature sensor only the two wire cable that operates the ATC. Waldo says that it's in my owner's manual, it's not so I ask you also, what page in your owner's manual describes a dash warning about heat protection as I'd like to read that??

There's No Demand on dry pavement. I like the vehicle just don't like being duped, maybe you do? If you don't like negative posts about your vehicle or whatever, just don't respond.

There wasn't any hazardous road conditions shown on the winding road. Your memory has failed you. Calling it a On-Demand system is totally incorrect. A 5% increase from moderate to heavy acceleration isn't very much. There's nothing in Workshop Manual as I've shown above and nothing in the owner's either besides not having a temperature sensor in the ATC. Do you have a problem with or don't believe what the manual states? Or just someone that doesn't agree with you? If your Fusion owner's manual mentions anything about the heat protection and /or the dash message center, tell me what page it's on as I'd sure like to read that.

What about the Fusion AWD driving condition selectable graphic right from Ford Vehicles website? It's supposed to show one how the AWD system works under different driving conditions. Going down a winding road torque shifts from side to side????? Not!! What about the interview posted in this forum with the person from Ford where they stated that under heavy acceleration, you get increased rear wheel torque? There's hardly any difference between moderate and taking off from a dead stop at full throttle. The 4WD dash icon was last used in the '07 Escape with a series of flashing, blinking, etc. code. After that starting with the '07 Fusion and >'08 Escape the following is stated with no mention of the 4WD icon code at all. Heat Protection Mode During very extreme off-road operation, the AWD system utilizes a heat protection mode to protect the ATC solenoid (part of rear axle) from damage. If the system detects an overheat condition, it enters a locked mode. If the heat in the system continues to rise once in the locked mode, the 4X4 control module disables the ATC solenoid. Allow the system to cool down at least 10 minutes with the ignition switch in the ON position. Your saying the lock mode is zero rear torque but it doesn't read that way to me. I interpet that the lock mode is 100% duty cycle to prevent any further increase due to slippage. If heat does still increase, it then disables it. Since there isn't "any" sensor in/around/at the rear ATC, how does it sense heat anyway??? Nothing at all is mention in the owner's manual either. The only dash icons that you see when the key is in the ON position is the only ones available and the 4WD doesn't light up although there's a spot for it. How about your Fusion?

If the front wheels are slipping where is your steering control? What about the supposed 100% rear wheel torque under heavy acceleraation with no slippage? What a lame search feature they have in the on-line manuals! I couldn't even find a match for "traction". I found TC manually in the 4WD/AWD section of the '07 Fusion Workshop Manual. Here's a some info about 4WD/AWD, TC and its theory of operation. Also did you know that it has a overheat mode? If it get hot, it locks up to prevent further heating. Your supposed to let it idle for I think it's ten minutes to cool down. Of course, nothing is mentioned on how your supposed to know this! Maybe when it resists turning, you then figure it out. There is at least on the Escape a 4x4 icon in the upper LH corner of the dash but it's unused and doesn't light up when the key is turned to the ON position. Is there one on the Fusion too? Traction Control System — All Wheel Drive (AWD) The ABS module communicates with the powertrain control module (PCM) to assist with traction control. When the drive wheels lose traction and begin to spin, with vehicle speed under 100 km/h (62 mph), the ABS module requests the PCM to reduce engine torque while simultaneously applying and releasing the appropriate brake caliper(s) to maintain traction. The PCM accomplishes this by minor incremental timing changes and fewer fuel injector pulses until the ABS module ends the request. The request ends when the driven wheel speed returns to the desired speed. After the vehicle speed exceeds 100 km/h (62 mph), the traction control is accomplished only through the PCM torque control. The traction control system can be disabled by pressing the traction control switch and is indicated by the traction control light in the instrument cluster. The traction control system resets and returns to normal operation when the ignition switch is cycled, or when the traction control switch is pressed and released a second time during the same ignition cycle. Four Wheel Drive (4WD) Systems — All Wheel Drive (AWD) The All-Wheel Drive (AWD) system consists of the following: • Power Transfer Unit (PTU) • Rear driveshaft • AWD relay module • Rear axle with coupling device Torque from the engine is transferred through the transaxle to the PTU. This torque is transferred from the driveshaft to the rear axle, which drives the rear halfshafts. The AWD system, also referred to as an Active Torque Coupling (ATC) system, is always active and requires no driver input. The AWD system continuously monitors vehicle conditions and automatically adjusts the torque distribution between the front and rear wheels. During normal operation, most of the torque is delivered to the front wheels. If wheel slip between the front and rear wheels is detected, or if the vehicle is under heavy acceleration, the AWD system increases torque to the rear wheels to prevent or control wheel slip. When the AWD system is functioning properly, there should be no perceived speed difference between the front and rear axles when launching or driving the vehicle on any uniform surface. Traction should be similar to a part time Four-Wheel Drive (4WD) system in 4H (4X4 HIGH), but have no binding in turns. Serviceable components of the PTU are limited to the output shaft seal and flange, intermediate shaft seal and deflector, and the PTU transaxle compression seal. No internal components are serviced. There should be no need to remove the PTU cover. If any of the internal geared components, bearings, case cover or shafts are worn or damaged, a new PTU must be installed. Principles of Operation The vehicle is equipped with a four wheel drive (4WD) system, also referred to as intelligent torque controlled coupling (ITCC), that is always active and requires no driver input. The system has no mode select switch. The system combines transparent all-surface operation with all wheel drive (AWD), and is capable of handling all road conditions, including street and highway driving as well as off-road and winter driving. The system continuously monitors vehicle conditions and automatically adjusts the torque distribution between the front and rear wheels. During normal operation, most of the torque is sent to the front wheels. If wheel slip between the front and rear wheels is detected, or if the vehicle is under heavy acceleration (high throttle position), the AWD system increases torque to the rear wheels to prevent or control wheel slip. The system consists of a power transfer unit (PTU), 4X4 control module, rear axle and a solenoid actuated active torque coupling device. The module varies the torque sent to the rear wheels by sending a duty cycle based on the amount of current sent to the clutch to the active torque coupling device located inside the rear axle. The 4X4 control module also provides the brake system with its current clutch duty cycle and whether or not the brake system may take command of the clutch duty cycle. NOTE: The active torque coupling is not repairable. If a new component is required, the active torque coupling and rear axle are installed as an assembly. Refer to Section 205-02. The PTU is a gearbox that attaches to the transaxle. The RH halfshaft passes through the transfer case and engages the differential side gear as in normal front wheel drive (FWD) applications. The transaxle differential drives the PTU. The PTU then drives the driveshaft at all times. The driveshaft drives one half of the rear axle clutch pack. The other half of the rear axle clutch pack drives the rear axle ring and pinion. The PTU is sealed from the transaxle and has its own oil sump. The PTU uses 473 ml (18 oz) of Motorcraft SAE 75W-140 gear lubricant. The active, on-demand AWD system uses data from other systems as inputs to the 4X4 control module. The 4X4 control module uses the inputs to determine the appropriate amount of current to send to the active torque coupling that delivers the desired torque to the rear wheels.

How do stop front wheel torque completly to send 100% to the rear? As I've said, a fuction test is to command 100% but the results are that it resists turning or steering. That doesn't add up. I'm looking at the Official Ford Workshop Manuals on-line that a service tech would use. As far as the TC, I'll search the '07 manual for All-Speed Traction Control. Maybe it's different and in another section. Usually it's under Brakes because as TC is a ABS function.

No, I guess because it didn't have TC before then but did the Fusion? I'm not sure but can check on that shortly. If not, in this forum in this thread: My link. Look at wording in the picture. The second link in Post #4 took one to that selectable moving graphic of different road conditions. The second button or "Performance and Handling" show the Fusion on a winding dry road with power being shifted from side to side in the rear I believe. The link is now broken and just takes you to some Ford page. Look at the date of the post. Just looked, no TC listed under Brakes/Vehicle Dynamic Systems untill 2009 just like the Escape.

That system goes back several years but traction control wasn't available on the Escape Hybrid's till 2009.

You can't use a locking differential on a FWD though.

Nice, put that on the front/rear and they'd actually have something that agrees with some of their advertizing. Is that system currently on the Ecoboost MKS, Taurus, Flex and MKT or even a Fusion AWD? I think not or not yet. Between different models their advertizing descriptions of the Intelligent 4WD/AWD systems vary.

You got me on that one! Got my engines crossed and thought it came in FWD also. While double checking that I captured the following descprition right from the MKS page. Intelligent All-Wheel Drive System This advanced system constantly monitors driver and vehicle input to actively transfer torque to the wheel or wheels with the best traction. The available Intelligent AWD seamlessly responds to conditions, helping keep you on track in all weather so you can drive with confidence How does it transfer torque to the wheel with the best traction? Kind-of reminds of that moving graphic that showed that about a Fusion which was pulled. Without a clutch at every wheel that's impossible!

I could say the same thing about you too. Am I suposed to believe you? So a EcoBoost MKS FWD is undrivable because of torque steer?

That's 4WD. I just call them as they really are.

That's because you don't know what AWD really means and that your driving a Automatic Four Wheel Drive(A4WD) and not a AWD plus not working as advertized. A true AWD would have a clutch at every wheel. The closest anyone comes to that on a FWD is the SH-AWD system with a seperate clutch at each rear wheel.

In a RWD/4WD system you have a engine, transmission, transfer case and two driveshafts. You have the transfer case to possibly reduce torque to the front or rear wheels. In a FWD/AWD you have a engine, transaxle and a PTU driving one driveshaft. There's no transfer case therefore no possible provisions to reduce front wheel torque without reducing rear wheel torque at the same time. You have a differential which spilts torque from side to side but none between the front and rear like a transfer would have. The only reason this system works without a transfer case is that because it pulses the clutch ON only a fraction of every second. Pulling the fuse does increase your MPG by 1-2MPG, that's been proven in another forum. As far as torque steer goes, if you think your AWD eliminates it, pull the fuse and see what happens then. The RDU is from JTEKT Corporation. I think but not really sure that the rearend is built by Dana. I do know that Ford is planning to take that job from Dana and build it in house in the plant where I worked. Since now I'm not forced to drive every day to work, I can avoid snow covered roads, I plan to venture out more this winter. I think driving in heavy snow and maybe never reaching a constant speed, you "might" have rear wheel torque all the time.

In order to avoid torque steer the torque would have to be shifted from the front to the rear but again it doesn't do that. The article with the Ford specialist said that it actually shifted the torque to the rear under heavy acceleration leaving the front wheels to do the single job of steering. You'd think this guy would know what he's talking about since I ran across his name on a patent for the system. Maybe he's just the manager or something or other and doesn't really know. When a person is shopping for a vehicle they look at brochures, ask questions, rear articles, etc. This is supposed to be a On Demand system and it's not. One shouldn't have to purchase the Workshop Manual which states under normal driving conditions most of the torque is sent to the front wheels. That means under normal driving conditions some is sent to the rear wheels. Not every Ford engineer is smart, I know because I worked with them for over 35 years.

Can torque steer cause loss of traction? What does 4WD/AWD have to do with torque steer which is a FWD issue? How do you calculate wheel slippage from steering angle accelerator position and vehicle speed? One of Ford tests for proper 4WD operation is to monitor all the wheel speed sensors to see if they are within, I think 2.5mph of eachother. If your turning a corner it's going to send rear wheel torque regardless of slippage. Another Ford function test is to monitor the 4WD PID lock the wheel at <5mph and you should see >20% rear wheel torque. I know what's published about the system but my point is that it doesn't working that way. I'm talking facts but your quoting articles, etc. Just like I read a PR release on the '09 Ford Flex that said it was the first Ford vehicle to have DFCO. Not sure who was first since the '09 Escape has it too and maybe it's been in others for years already.

Nope, zero or 0V when using pulse width modulation means no power applied to the rear ATC unit. If there a constant 12V all the time that would be 100%. It's based on time vs frequency. The time of one Hertz or cycle divided by the pulsed ON time equels the duty cycle in percent. If you think that the computer can compensate for that how is it that a test from the Ford Workshop Manual instructs the tech to command 100% and check for steering bind? If it does resist turnimg, it tells them to return the vehicle to the customer. Here's a image of the pulsed 12V sent to the rear ATC unit. Ignore the date, the scope loses it when the battery goes dead, it's from 5/13/09. At idle or a constant speed the voltage goes to zero or no rear wheel torque.

The other person here with a Scanguage-II gets the same readings so far as I do on my Escape. If he'd only try a heavy acceleration test, I'd be happy. There is/was a interview with a Ford person saying that a FWD uses the same two wheels to power and steering the vehicle. The claim was under heavy acceleration the 4WD/AWD system sends much of the torque to the rear and leaves the front just for steering. But it really doesn't do that. The person that actually came up with the SG-II coding somehow used two SG's back to back and a Ford computer to capture the location of the PID for rear wheel torque. After my scope work showed half of what his coding showed, he admitted making the mistake of basing it on 100%. You can't have 100% rear wheel torque because the vehicle will resist turning. When I first started looking into the 4WD/AWD, I got the manual to locate the 4WD module which was in the consule. I took it apart and used a scope on the output to the ATC in the rear end. It shows the same thing as the Scanguage-II which I got so I could put my consule back together after two months of being apart.

Yes I do! Typically this is caused by a loss of traction by either front wheel normally caused by unequal drive axle lenghts which you have. If you have torque steer, it will show up on slippery road conditions much more than dry road conditions. It is a FWD issue and has nothing to do with 4WD/AWD, although because of the PTU's added weight on the right side might change it.. I'd sure like to know a wheel speed sensor can anticipate wheel slippage before it happens? Just think about it. That's a classic PR release.

Not sure which companies use a electro-mechanical clutch or hydraulic but all will use a multi-plate type as it's pretty much a standard even in machinery. I have my Scanguage-II setup to monitor the 4WD PID all the time and have "never" seem more than 35% ever. I've tried to duplicate the hard acceleration but never get more than 35%. Wait a minute here! I just looked back in this thread and you have a Scanguage-II also. Why haven't you tried the heavy acceleration test yourself????

I mentioned that because of the 100% rear torque mentioned. Some seem to think that a water cooled PTU is in the Escape's future. Terrain management is just special programming just like a Escape that has a OEM trailer package has a option of anti-trailer sway which is just a special added ABS program. Of course, the Fusion isn't intended for off road use as it doesn't have the ground clearance for one. That doesn't change the facts clearly stated in Ford's own manuals that the basic system operates the same no matter what vehicle it's in.

I bought the right vehicle going by the explaination of the 4WD system in brochures, articles, etc. but as I've learn since then, weren't true at all. I was also fooled by a article that seemed to say that the system can direct 100% rear wheel torque under heavy throttle. There is a function test in the Ford Workshop Manual in which the tech is instructed to command 100% rear wheel torque using their IDS(computer) and if the vehicle resists turning, it's operating correctly. The system can't devert front wheel torque only send some to the rear. Once over 50% it starts to cause steering issues. I also though that maybe on a full throttle from a dead stop would show close to 50% rear wheel torque but I've never seen more than 35%. Some think because of this causes lots of strain on the PTU with no differetial between the back and front. Ford must think so also because the 2011 Explorer has a water cooled PTU. RDU gear ratio is never listed. By VIN the final drive ration and a axle code are listed. So what if the ratio is different? The basic operation is still the same. Sorry but your Fusion isn't really different in many ways. Granted, it's different in many ways from a Escape but the AWD is the same as the 4WD Escape or a AWD Edge. Just like the 4WD Escape Hybrid owners that their vehicles were different also but they really aren't.

Traction is what 4WD is all about. You really don't have AWD, it's just a name game they play these days. In my Escape they call 4WD and in your Fusion they call it AWD but both are same exact system with the theory of operation being word for the word the same.

It's supposed to be a so-called On Demand system, so where's the demand on dry paveement. Brochures, articles, etc. suggest the system kicks in when wheel spin is detected which isn't true. I don't think torque steer comes into play on dry hard pavement. It's a electo-mechanical clutch using pulse width modulation, 0V means zero torque. Try pulling the fuse marked 4WD/AWD "only" and you'll a 1-2mpg gain.