wptski

Does the Taurus have the same UnIntelligent 4WD system? I think not.

I'm not trying to argumentative at all but you guys are going by what the articles and sales brochures claim and I'm going by it really does. I had my Escape for six months believing as you do that's when I seen a picture of a ScanGuage-II in a Escape Hybrid showing 47% rear wheel torque on dry pavement. I posted a reply, never got a reply but chased the poster down in a Hybrid forum and started a thread on the subject. I first got the manuals to find the 4WD module, torn apart my center consule, started with a DMM reading the duty cycle and then used a scope. My first thought was that they weren't reading the 4WD PID but some other one because I believed the sales brochure, etc. but my testing proved otherwise. I've asked the dealer, how much rear wheel torque would you get just leaving from a dead stop just driving straight because the books don't mention a test like that. They couldn't answer that and also called the Tech Hotline who said that information isn't available. I drove around for a month with my consule apart and finally got a ScanGuage-II. Actually the guy who came up with the SG-II coding agreed that he made a mistake of basing his coding on 100% when it should have been 50% because my scope read half of what the SG-II did. I know nothing about coding the SG-II, so don't ask. I can barely punch the numbers in without help. Ford doesn't give the details by it says that under certain drving conditions the ABS module can take control of the 4WD and traction control also. I've forced the TC to kick in on snow but not the 4WD but I must be fair to say that I haven't given it a real good test. Needs to be done in a safe manner. One thing that I noticed just coasting on downside of a long somewhat gradual incline with cause a few percent of rear wheel torque for a few seconds. Well, it can't really be torque if your coasting, it just engages for whatever reason. BTW: Here's a link to what the graphic looked like and somewhere in there was a direct link: AWD Fusion

If read all the techspeak on the system and interviews with Ford Driveline Specialists in this forum, I think. The interview leads one to believe that it can send so much torque to the rear that it leaves the front wheels just to steer under heavy acceleration but the truth is it doesn't. You can only send so much rear wheel torque before you can't steer. A 4WD(AWD) function test right from the manual is monitor the 4WD rear wheel torque PID, make a hard turn at <5MPH and it should be >20%. Another test is to command 100% rear wheel torque and if it resists turning, it's working properly.

Do you drive hard and fast on a twisting road in a hard rain or on snow?? The worse it is the faster and harder you drive??

What's to tune? All that can change if any is the percent of rear wheel torque. The explanation of its operation in the manuals are exactly the same. Distribution of torque from a heavy acceleration start is different, so you may/maynot be able to squeak the tires. If they had two unmarked Fusion's one with AWD(4WD) and one without, I dare say that you couldn't tell the difference under normal driving conditions. The situations where you'd expect it to help after reading the sales brochure are pure hype. I or anybody else doesn't need 4WD(AWD) on dry hard pavement in the middle of June, yet it does it costing some MPG. I and others have been mislead by Ford's marketing of so-called Intelligent 4WD(AWD) which really isn't very intelligent at all from what I've seen.

There once was a selectable graphic showing the Fusion AWD under different driving conditions. One showed a winding road with torque shifting to wheels side to side. Ford pulled that link. Why? It doesn't work that way. It "only" shifts torque from back to front not side to side. There is a electro-mechanical clutch in the rearend and that's it! AWD is a misused term, it's really just a variation of 4WD and would better to call it Automatic Four Wheel Drive or A4WD. I have a '09 Escape which is the same system. I monitor the rear wheel torque all the time. Every time you leave from a dead stop you get rear wheel torque which slowly decreases till you reach a constant speed. Ford claims increased torque under heavy acceleration. All the way to the floor from a dead stop, never more than maybe 34%. In theory one should get 50% max. Even light acceleration shows 20-25%. I've tried to force increased rear wheel torque on snow at low speeds and never seen any extra. Seems to be more hype than fact to me. I intend to try more again on snow this winter. The Acura SH-AWD has a clutch pack at each rear wheel which makes it a true FWD biased AWD: My link

Was your vehicle included in the 10B15 recall to do a PCM reflash which might help?

Not really! The amount of rearwheel torque sent may be different but the fact that it still sends it everytime you leave from a stop on dry hard pavement. The Ford Workshop Manual describes the exact same theory of operation for both platforms and the functional tests are exactly the same also.

Okay, not just as a "On Demand". I've never seen the system anticipate slippage and send rearwheel torque, not that it has happened. I've driven on snow and tried to accelerate to force a increase torque but seen no increase. If you accelerate at any speed, you'll see increased rearwheel torque no matter if it's a "S" curve or not. As far as Press Releases go. I forget how many different Ford vehicles claim to use fuel cutoff on decell programing for the first time. It's on the Ford Escape, it goes OPEN LOOP STATUS while coasting above a certain speeds. Just look at what I posted above from the Ford Fusion site above. It says torque to a single wheel and that's just plain wrong!! Sure, programing may be different for different vehicles but basic operation is the same.

Nothing really expalns in detail how the system works not even the Workshop Manuals. Like the a Service Manager phrased it, " If it ain't in the book, I guess they don't want us to know!". They don't go into details maybe because the rearend ATC unit isn't servicable other than seals. Electrically, if it goes bad, they replace the whole unit. The constant speed at which time rear wheel torque stops can be any speed as it probably momitors the throttle. That could be 25MPH, 30MPH or whatever. One pinpoint test for function is to monitor the 4WD/AWD PID, make a full locked turn at <5MPH and if it's >20%, nothing is wrong. Another test is to command 100% rear wheel torque and if it's working correctly, the vehicle will resist turning and/or wheels will bind. The question I asked of my dealer that they couldn't answer was, what's normal rearwheel torque from a dead stop driving straight? My main complaint about the system is that it's advertised as a "on-demand" or Intelligent 4WD/AWD system that sends rear wheel torque only when needed, so why does it send rearwheel torque every time you leave from a dead stop? It doesn't send rearwheel torque and/or side to side for sure if you were driving through a "S" curve, so there's no increase handling ability. I'm a retired Ford maintanence employee and if I was still working I "might" have been able through to somebody at Ford to get details on the system.

Here's a link which includes a quotes from a interview with a Ford rep; My link I also question the text included in the link above that states increased throttle results in increased rear wheel torque. I can put my '09 FE right to the floor and my ScanGuage-II never shows more than 30-35%. Light to moderate throttle results in >20%. Why can't I get close to 50%??? I have access to all Ford Workshop Manuals and description of operation for a Escape 4WD is word for word the same as a Ford Fusion AWD. The troubleshooting section is exactly the same. The systems are the same. Here's a link to a thread I started in a Ford Escape Hybrid Forum that started me on a search for answers: My link. I asked my dealership's questions about 4WD operation that they could answer and they even contacted their Service Hotline. They were told that the information I requested wasn't available!! I grabbed the following from the Ford Fusion site, I highlighted the interesting part! Seems somebody is still confused on their AWD operation! I guess they consider having traction control makes it real AWD?? The V6-powered Fusion with class-exclusive* All-Wheel Drive (AWD) improves traction and handling on any surface where wheel slip can occur, such as ice, snow, mud, gravel or even dry pavement. It constantly monitors driving conditions and distributes engine torque to the wheels with the most traction. So if the front wheels are experiencing poor traction, AWD will automatically transfer more torque to the rear wheels or the wheels having the most traction. At highway speed, the AWD system automatically deactivates to help conserve fuel but is able to reactivate if wheel slip is anticipated or detected.

Gentle to moderate acceleration won't send torque to the rear wheels and moreso at 50MPH.

Well, you used the phrase, unlocking differential. I assume now that you meant when the rear ATC unit isn't being powered? Since the TCC is normally engaged at a constant speed and the 4WD/AWD is OFF when you reach a constant speed, I'm confused about the connection! I should have said the traction control and a locking rear differential are a bit trickier to get to work together. The Mustang isn't FWD and it might not be possible to have a rear locking differential and traction control on a FWD with A4WD. If you want to try a test, pull the fuse on the 4WD/AWD module and see if the problem stops. This will turn ON your dash "wrench" icon but will go OFF when the fuse is replaced.

I don't believe that there's such a thing as a locking rear differential on a Fusion AWD, whoops, A4WD. Having traction control with a locking differential is a problem.

Whatever...

bbf2530: You win, I give up!

I don't see where I misunderstood your posts. You have a view of "how" Ford's warranty program is supposed to work which sounds like your a Ford employee in protective mode. I'm trying, although I made some mistakes because I can't remember each individual's problems exactly, a instance of how it really works which you say is a made up story. Look up the VIN and it'll tell you that it's a true story!

I'm sorry that I question your expert knowledge of Ford Warranty System. Maybe I shouldn't believe what you are saying because this is just another Ford vehicle forum on the internet just like where I followed the other owner problem with the ATF leak. Darn them making up a story like that!! Geez, I seemed to have gotten several parts of the story wrong! All the leaks "may" have been on the right side not left side and it was a 2010 Escape not a 2009. I have a hunch that you can look up VIN: 1fmcu9dg7aka84610 yourself. Its history speaks for itself!

If Ford knows "exactly" what's going on, why are they paying a dealer to do the same repair job over and over again? Clearly this dealer doesn't know what they are doing and I wonder why Ford hasn't questioned their work quality. Would you pay to have the same repair job eight times?

So the dealer was doing all the repeated work which was covered by a TSB without being paid by Ford? Yeah, sure!! The problem that I speak of(TSB 10-05-10) which cover the '10 Fusion also with the 6F35 transmission is so vast that parts have been on national backorder on/off since last December. A dealer not far from me had six '09 Escapes sitting on their lot waiting for parts a few months ago.

I have to wonder about you just stated! I know of a '09 Escape owner that's had two half shafts and eight seals installed to repair a ATF leak. This is in Canada, no Lemon Laws there but they finally cut a deal on a even swap to a 4x4 F-150. This sure doesn't sound like Ford is watching what their dealers are doing at all!!

The PTU only sends power to the rear wheels. A FWD doesn't have a PTU, only a 4WD and if you want to use the loose term of AWD have one.

Under normal driving conditions "some" torque is always sent to the rear wheels, if slippage is detected, increased torque is sent to the rear. Every time you leave from a dead stop, you have rear wheel torque which slowly decreases till you reach a constant speed. Even on dry hard pavement, if you nail it, rear wheel torque will increase. I've monitored the system at first with a scope but now use a ScanGuage-II coded to show the 4WD PID. This is my first winter doing so and have yet to see/catch increased rear wheel torque due to front wheel slippage, not that it hasn't happened but I've just haven't seen it happen. Don't be fooled as I was with sales brochures. The same exact system is used on the Escape but it's refered to as 4WD.

One advantage of AWD which may be lost because of its extra weight is that because torque is split between the rear and front wheels, there will be little if any loss of traction. The Fusion AWD and Escape 4WD are the same systems with Ford playing name games. I have a '09 FE and no matter what you hear or read, every time you leave from a dead stop, you have rear wheel torque regardless of front wheel traction.

I know this post is a little old! The '09 Escape was the first year to use the new 6F35 transmission and now it's used in the 2010 Fusion with the 3.0L only, I believe. There is a TSB on the '09 FE with left hand half-shaft seal leak caused by poor surface finish on the shafts which also may damage the support busing in the case half. Dealers are to replace the half-shaft and inspect the bushing. If the bushing is damaged they must order the case half which comes with the bushing installed and a new seal. There are FE owners reporting that there FE are sitting on dealer lots waiting for the case halfs, some for two weeks now and the dealers have no idea when the parts will come in. One owner reported that their told them that 300 cases were released from back order and gone in one day. The 2010 Fusion uses the same exact left hand half sahft as the '09 Escape. There isn't any TSB listed for the 2010 Fusion for this problem but it just seems like a matter of time as the 2010 came out in mid-year. Since many Ford plants are down for the two weeks, it makes it even worse!