2016 Dead Battery Issue and NOW "no key detected"

[head4trauma]

Hello all. Let me get this out of the way, I absolutely LOVE the car. Everything about it..........except for when it doesn't want to start.

 

I have a 2016 Fusion SE that has everything I want, and nothing I don't. I was lucky enough to able to pay off the car the day I bought it. It's the first time I've ever been able to choose a car based on what I wanted, not how much money I happened to have at the time. But I was still prudent and spent a good 6 months researching what would be best for me. 

 

I drove it off the lot with 40 miles. It wasn't very long after that when I first had an issue. A dead battery. I figured since it was so new, I must have left something plugged in or something else. Then, at random, I would be heading somewhere and the car won't start. Dead battery. Since then, I've actually lost count of how many dead batteries I've had, and it's been to two different dealerships multiple times. One even installed a brand new battery. To this day, they still don't know what the problem is. They've never been able to duplicate the issue. Even after they had it for a week and a half. 

 

Then last week, a new issue. I got to work in the morning, and since I occasionally work at 2 other locations, it was leaving again in 15 minutes. Well, I thought I was. I got the "no key present" message and the car would not start. I don't have the push button start, so that's ruled out. So I called roadside assistance and they towed it to the dealership. (needless to say, I didn't end up where I was supposed to that day, and the paycheck will be a little less this week.) Things happen, I get that. But I bought a new car because I need something reliable. 

 

So, the dealership calls me and the car is ready. They told me the battery in the fob was dead and they replaced. That happens, batteries need replaced eventually. Even if only after two years on these. I can deal with that. So as soon as I got home, I changed the battery in the other fob as well. It took less than 24 hours for the same issue to happen again. "no key detected" despite new batteries, and both fobs in the car. It's an intermittent issue, but it's happened at least 4 times a day since it was "fixed". 

 

Any suggestions? I am at a loss. I'm taking the car back in this week, but my faith in the thing is seriously shaken. As much as I love it, it doesn't love me back. I live in a fairly small area, so in two years I only have 10,500 miles on the car. 

 

I would LOVE to have the issues fixed and drive it for another 20 years. That's why I'm asking for insights. More than likely someone here has had the same issue. Or advice. Two years is too soon to be issues like this.......that nobody can manage to fix. Even WITH a warranty. That concerns me less than not being able to get to work. They are only understanding to a certain point.

[eGuru]

The key detection is based on sensing the security chip inside the key head - and that does not require any power from the batteries in the key fob.

So the dead battery diagnosis by the dealership is bs.

 

This could be related to the PATS.

 

Do you have remote start? 

When it doesn't recognize the key, will it remote start?

 

It could also be an issue with the remote starter system. I would unplug it and see if the problem disappears.

[head4trauma]

5 hours ago, eGuru said:

The key detection is based on sensing the security chip inside the key head - and that does not require any power from the batteries in the key fob.

So the dead battery diagnosis by the dealership is bs.

 

This could be related to the PATS.

 

Do you have remote start? 

When it doesn't recognize the key, will it remote start?

 

It could also be an issue with the remote starter system. I would unplug it and see if the problem disappears.

 

Thank you for the response. That's exactly what I thought on the fob battery. I just figured it was something new I may not have been aware of. And, well, the dealership said that was the issue and replaced the battery. I had a 2004 Taurus with a transponder key and no remote buttons, so of course it didn't need a battery.

 

So, essentially, I'm back to square one since it appears they did nothing more than change the battery. There is simply no excuse for that. I'm pretty sure that may come up in my next conversations with them.

 

I do have remote start, but never thought to test it. I did, however, go into the vehicle settings and disable the remote start entirely. I'm not sure if that will accomplish the same thing as unplugging it, but worth a shot at least. 

 

I'm not freaking out about it at this point. The other day was a different story, I didn't realize at the time it would be an intermittent issue. So if it acts up, I wait a minute, then it will start. But it will get fixed. I have a different outlook now that I know the battery thing was BS. As opposed to an actual "repair" that involved the car itself and not just the fob. 

 

The dealer I took it to isn't where I bought it. It shouldn't be a factor, but I made an appointment to take it where I DID buy it. 

 

Thank you very much. 

 

 

[eGuru]

When troubleshooting whether the remote start is causing the issue, the most important step is to unplug the transponder bypass cable for the coil that is around the key cylinder.

Usually this is a separate 2 pin connector with small gauge wires.

[head4trauma]

2 hours ago, eGuru said:

When troubleshooting whether the remote start is causing the issue, the most important step is to unplug the transponder bypass cable for the coil that is around the key cylinder.

Usually this is a separate 2 pin connector with small gauge wires.

 

I"ll let the dealer do that. I'm taking it in this week. Being only two years old and under warranty, I'm taking no chances on screwing something up. I"ll let them tear into it.

 

Though it has't acted up since I disabled remote start in the settings menu. But that could just be the cosmos screwing with me as usual.

[head4trauma]

I may have actually figured this one out. I noticed a certain pattern involving my wireless cell phone charger. It's sort of close to the ignition and I noticed if the phone was charging, no start. Signal interference. It wasn't an issue until after I had the steering wheel recall taken care of. And it was hit and miss. The only thing I can think of is the sensor in the ignition is somehow just slightly more sensitive. There was a difference moving it just an inch away, or slightly tilting it's angle differently.

 

So I moved the charger entirely. I've not had an issue since.

 

Of course, that still doesn't excuse the dealership for telling me it was a dead battery in the fob that caused it. It's obviously not a push button start. I would think they may have caught the actual issue. Maybe not. Either way, I was concerned about the BS they gave me about a dead battery in the fob instead of the actual cause. It just seemed like they weren't actually interested in finding the cause.

 

To be honest, I would have been totally OK with, "You idiot, your wireless charger is too close to the ignition......" 

 

Instead of, "Good to go, all fixed...." then the car doesn't start less than an hour later.  Behaving EXACTLY the same way it did that morning before the dealership looked at it.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by head4trauma

[eGuru]

Glad you found a cause. 

 

Just curious about the actual device that caused the issue.

Was it an induction style of mobile phone charger?

Did it only happen with the mobile docked in the charger?

Does your mobile have NFC?

[head4trauma]

7 hours ago, eGuru said:

Glad you found a cause. 

 

Just curious about the actual device that caused the issue.

Was it an induction style of mobile phone charger?

Did it only happen with the mobile docked in the charger?

Does your mobile have NFC?

 

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, it's an induction wireless charger (Samsung S8 plus). And yes, it only happened when it was in the charger. That's actually how I figured it out. I noticed it was only an issue when the phone was in the cradle AND charging. I unplugged the charger, no issue. Phone not in the charger, no issue. MOVED the charger, no issue. Even moving the charger half an inch further away had no affect. But when it was charging, and I put the thing close to the ignition, "no key detected" every single time. And I don't have NFC enabled since I don't use it for anything. I made sure that wasn't enabled when I suspected it had to do with the phone.

 

I was just checking it out again a few minutes ago with the same results. So it looks I fixed the issue by moving the charger further away.

 

It was to the left of the gear shift.

[FusionDiffusion]

Wow, I'll have to remember that one for future reference with the growing popularity of wireless chargers! The transponder system uses low frequency radio waves to interrogate the chip in the key, which is similar in frequency to what wireless phone chargers use. The magnetic field disturbance is highest when power is actually being sent to the phone through the inductive coils in the charger, but when the charger is idle there are only very minimal heartbeat pules being sent out.

 

I could have told you the wireless charger might be a problem in two seconds had I seen that, but that's how the internet works with these things sometimes... Always good to report any aftermarket accessories installed when dealing with electrical or functionality problems. Something like a radar detector or amplifier can cause a dead battery if improperly installed.

[head4trauma]

11 hours ago, FusionDiffusion said:

Wow, I'll have to remember that one for future reference with the growing popularity of wireless chargers! The transponder system uses low frequency radio waves to interrogate the chip in the key, which is similar in frequency to what wireless phone chargers use. The magnetic field disturbance is highest when power is actually being sent to the phone through the inductive coils in the charger, but when the charger is idle there are only very minimal heartbeat pules being sent out.

 

I could have told you the wireless charger might be a problem in two seconds had I seen that, but that's how the internet works with these things sometimes... Always good to report any aftermarket accessories installed when dealing with electrical or functionality problems. Something like a radar detector or amplifier can cause a dead battery if improperly installed.

 

I moved the charger to the other side of the gear shift Saturday. No issues since.

 

I've actually had the charger in the same place (left of gear shift) for well over a year. So it didn't hit me at first as the cause. THEN it dawned on me, it started acting up the day after I had the steering wheel recall taken care of. Basically, after working on the steering wheel (which wasn't all that involved) it was slightly more sensitive than before and now picking up the chargers frequency. 

 

I figured it out, but what blows my mind was the dealership. They took a look at it, told me the battery in the fob was dead and that was the issue. And replaced the battery. Seriously! It's not a push button start. While I was leaving, I was silently telling myself, "this thing isn't going to start later this evening." It didn't. But, I figured it out now good to go. 

 

Had it not been for the dead battery issue I dealt with for a year and a half, I would have been more in a "things happen" state of mind. 

 

Having a car with less than 10,000 miles on it that starts reliably is high on my list of "desirable features".

[eGuru]

My theory about the securilock sensing being more sensitive to outside interference after the steering wheel recall.

 

-The sensor ring wiring for the remote start was displaced from its normal routing.

[head4trauma]

On 5/22/2018 at 7:55 PM, eGuru said:

My theory about the securilock sensing being more sensitive to outside interference after the steering wheel recall.

 

-The sensor ring wiring for the remote start was displaced from its normal routing.

 

Exactly. It's not been an issue. It wouldn't been as big a deal if the dealership hadn't given me that BS. I'd rather hear, "we don't know".

 

Instead, the reason they gave me, according to the owners manual, is impossible. 

[head4trauma]

I know, this is unrelated, but I was just washing the windshield the old fashioned way, and I'm back on the "Seriously? Screw this" wagon.

[head4trauma]

It's the paint. No scratches, chips.......nothing. Just that pushing up from under the paint.