Road Force Matching/Balancing

[ky130]

I have been experiencing a pretty shaky ride with my fusion (19" H-Spoke wheels). I have never really had a completely smooth ride from day one. I read about the Hunter Road Force (RF) matching system. I took it to Tire Discounters (they have a Hunter Elite machine) and asked for the RF match/balancing. I actually asked for the 180 matching procedure, figuring this would give me the best matching possible. My tires have been on the vehicle for 5k miles and one wheel has 5k miles on it (new wheel due to pothole).

 

The tech had never heard of the 180 method, but said he'd try. I guess it never got to that, because he said that the RF match failed for every wheel. Now, I'm unsure whether the procedure was done correctly or not. My only options are to 1) take to another shop 2) buy new wheels 3) buy new tires 4) 2&3. 

 

Anyone use the RF matching or have thoughts on it?

[bbf2530]

1 hour ago, ky130 said:

I have been experiencing a pretty shaky ride with my fusion (19" H-Spoke wheels). I have never really had a completely smooth ride from day one. I read about the Hunter Road Force (RF) matching system. I took it to Tire Discounters (they have a Hunter Elite machine) and asked for the RF match/balancing. I actually asked for the 180 matching procedure, figuring this would give me the best matching possible. My tires have been on the vehicle for 5k miles and one wheel has 5k miles on it (new wheel due to pothole).

 

The tech had never heard of the 180 method, but said he'd try. I guess it never got to that, because he said that the RF match failed for every wheel. Now, I'm unsure whether the procedure was done correctly or not. My only options are to 1) take to another shop 2) buy new wheels 3) buy new tires 4) 2&3. 

 

Anyone use the RF matching or have thoughts on it?

 

Hi ky10.  More information would help.  What year is your Fusion? Still within the 3 year/36,000 mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty? Are they the factory wheels or aftermarket? Are they the factory tires or have they been replaced over the years? If they are aftermarket wheels, contact the wheel manufacturer. If they are replacement tires, contact the tire manufacturer.

 

If your car is still within the 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, bring it back to the Dealership with the invoice from Discount Tire stating that it failed the road force balance. Before you begin replacing wheels and/or tires, you need to determine which is the problem. It is doubtful you have 4 bad wheels and 4 bad tires.

 

Get back to us with more information.

Edited March 18, 2019 by bbf2530

[ky130]

2015 Fusion Titanium w/ 90k miles. Factory H-spoke 19” wheels. One wheel is new, due to a pothole taking a nice chunk out. That wheel was bought from dealer, new. Tires are Firehawk AS 235/40R19 with ~5k miles on them. 

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if the three older wheels had some sort of deformation due to hazards, but the forth is new and I would have recalled hitting a pothole recently. 

 

I’m curious if these 19” wheels are more susceptible to damage? Looking at aftermarket wheels, but which are best? My first thought is to replace the wheels, since I’ve never really had a perfectly smooth ride in this car. I found a set of BBS wheels that are nice, but that’s gonna run $1300. 

[bangster]

Lower profile tires do increase the amount of damage a tire and wheel can sustain, and that is how a 19 inch wheel is used on the same chassis that a 16 inch wheel is, something with a 1.5 inch shorter sidewall.

 

I think you will find that usually factory wheels are higher quality that most Chinese cast wheels, I am sure those BBS are much higher quality than perhaps the OEM and most aftermarket. For that price they might even be forged.

 

I can't imagine what the ride is like with your description, and I drive some very old cars with very worn out and iffy suspension, and other than each one feels different, there has to be a very serious problem for me feel it isn't some sense of normal. I upsize wheels, 3 inches wider tires, lowered, drive on 330k mile steering and suspension, and only when things have lots of miles and need replaced do I get troublesome handling. I push my cars to 95%+ each time I drive them, sometimes 110% and slip up a bit.

[bbf2530]

Hi ky130. As bangster mentioned, the larger the wheel diameter, the shorter the sidewall ratio will be in order to keep the correct overall wheel/tire diameter.  That means you have less tire to absorb impacts from potholes and other road hazards.  That will naturally lead to increased chances/incidences of wheel and tire damage.

 

As far as aftermarket wheels being stronger or less susceptible to damage? Well, that is a tough one to answer.  Generally speaking, the answer would be no.

Factory wheels are usually/generally tougher, since they are manufactured to be a compromise of attractiveness to a car buyer, less susceptible to damage (to keep warranty costs down) and cost effective.  So they are usually heavier and stronger than aftermarket wheels, which tend to be more highly styled and lighter, but therefore more easily damaged.

Good aftermarket wheels like BBS etc are better than factory wheels in that they are lighter and you can choose your own style, but they are generally not stronger than the factory wheels, since they give up some strength for lightness (for attractive styling and performance reasons), so that sacrifices some impact strength.

 

On the opinion side of things, I am not a fan of Firestone tires.  And Firestone Firehawk tires would not be a first choice of most car enthusiasts for a sedan/sporty sedan like the Fusion.

Edited March 18, 2019 by bbf2530

[ky130]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I know all about the wheel diameter with regards to sidewalk height.  I’ve thought about going to 18” wheels to give a bit more sidewall to absorb some hits. Although, my tires currently have only 5k miles on them. Good brand or not, I’d just be throwing away those tires. That’s why I was looking at getting the same size wheel, so that the existing tires could be fit to them. 

 

I’m just torn on what to do. My gut tells me the tech didn’t really know how to use the Hunter machine and I should locate another shop that uses a Hunter system, maybe a dealer?? Guess I’ll just have to go in and ask if they actually know how to use their equipment. Ask them for a demonstration of how to RF match a wheel and tire assembly. 

[bbf2530]

On 3/18/2019 at 8:25 PM, ky130 said:

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I know all about the wheel diameter with regards to sidewalk height.  I’ve thought about going to 18” wheels to give a bit more sidewall to absorb some hits. Although, my tires currently have only 5k miles on them. Good brand or not, I’d just be throwing away those tires. That’s why I was looking at getting the same size wheel, so that the existing tires could be fit to them. 

 

I’m just torn on what to do. My gut tells me the tech didn’t really know how to use the Hunter machine and I should locate another shop that uses a Hunter system, maybe a dealer?? Guess I’ll just have to go in and ask if they actually know how to use their equipment. Ask them for a demonstration of how to RF match a wheel and tire assembly. 

 

Hi ky130.  Perhaps I misunderstood your question.  I guess you were asking if that particular style of Ford Fusion19" wheels is more prone to damage? The answer to that question would be no.

 

Factory wheels are made sturdy but heavy. So keep in mind that generally speaking, most aftermarket wheels will be more prone to damage, since they will be lighter and less sturdy than the factory wheels. However, if you definitely decide to replace your wheels, you will be able to find aftermarket replacements which will be less expensive than new OEM factory wheels.

However, I still think you should determine what is wrong first. No sense in replacing 4 wheels, only to find out that it was a tire/tires problem. Find out what the problem is before throwing expensive parts at it.

 

So perhaps you should follow your gut and try another shop to perform a road force balance. Or find a wheel shop or company which can check your wheels to see if they are straight and true, or bent, damaged etc.  This can just as likely be a tire issue.

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

Edited March 20, 2019 by bbf2530

[drolds1]

Did the tech who did the work give you a printout from the Hunter machine?  You need to know what the RF readings are.  The Hunter machine will indicate if the RF exceeds specs, as he reported.  It has the capability to show where the tire should be moved to on the rim.  It's not necessarily as simple as moving it 180º from where it is. I share your skepticism WRT his skill level.  If he never heard of the RF matching process, he shouldn't be working with the Hunter machine.  That's fundamental. 

 

You say that the ride was never smooth from day one.  By this, do you mean that there's been vibration or are you possibly feeling more of the road?  IDK what you were used to driving before the Fusion but the combination of the Fusion's more "European feel" to the suspension and 19" tires are naturally going to produce more "road feel" than other, more traditionally American cars.  Some people are more sensitive to this than others.  Did you ever raise the issue with your dealer's service department?  I'm wondering if maybe your car has an out-of-round wheel/tire(s).  I agree with bbf2530.  Before spending $1600+ on wheels only to find that you still have the problem, I'd try another shop where the tech is fully versed on the use of the Hunter machine.  Having had a set Firestone tires on a Lincoln LS years ago, I've been wary of their quality control.

[ky130]

There has always been just a slight vibration in the vehicle. Not a lot through the steering column (slight/not increased with speed), just noticeable in the vehicle itself. I do feel it a bit in the pedals (gas/brake). This is not while applying the brake, I would have changed the rotors already, had that been the issue. This is not road feel, I promise, I do like the fact I feel more of the road with this car’s setup. I even feel this on a newly paved road. 

 

I know it’s hard to tell what type of person is typically asking the question and what their level of knowledge is. I do know my way around general maintenance. Granted, I wasn’t trained on cars, just F-16s and general aviation aircraft. I do know something’s not right, it’s not serious, just annoying and I’d like to put an end to it. 

[bbf2530]

11 hours ago, ky130 said:

There has always been just a slight vibration in the vehicle. Not a lot through the steering column (slight/not increased with speed), just noticeable in the vehicle itself. I do feel it a bit in the pedals (gas/brake). This is not while applying the brake, I would have changed the rotors already, had that been the issue. This is not road feel, I promise, I do like the fact I feel more of the road with this car’s setup. I even feel this on a newly paved road. 

 

I know it’s hard to tell what type of person is typically asking the question and what their level of knowledge is. I do know my way around general maintenance. Granted, I wasn’t trained on cars, just F-16s and general aviation aircraft. I do know something’s not right, it’s not serious, just annoying and I’d like to put an end to it. 

 

Hi ky130.  Okay, more Internet diagnosis.  You stated that the frequency of vibration does not increase with speed. If the vibration you are feeling/experiencing does not increase and decrease in relation to speed, this throws another variable into the mix.  Out of round, bent, etc. tires and wheels should exhibit vibrations which would increase and decrease in direct correlation to vehicle speed. And that would be true if it was one, two, three, or even all four wheels/tires. If the vibration frequency is not increasing with speed, this is quite possibly not a tire/wheel issue.

 

Just what you need...another variable. ?

Edited March 20, 2019 by bbf2530

[ky130]

On 3/20/2019 at 9:44 AM, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi ky130.  Okay, more Internet diagnosis.  You stated that the frequency of vibration does not increase with speed. If the vibration you are feeling/experiencing does not increase and decrease in relation to speed, this throws another variable into the mix.  Out of round, bent, etc. tires and wheels should exhibit vibrations which would increase and decrease in direct correlation to vehicle speed. And that would be true if it was one, two, three, or even all four wheels/tires. If the vibration frequency is not increasing with speed, this is quite possibly not a tire/wheel issue.

 

Just what you need...another variable. ?

Maybe a bit more clarification. There is really not much to notice below 25 mph. Also, since I'm not much of a speeder, I'm not really over 55 mph very often (typical routes only go to 55 mph). That said, there is more intensity at 55 vs 25, but it's not a huge increase. Frequency may increase, but it's hard to be certain of that fact. I'd be willing to bet that it would be quite intense at 100 mph, but  there's no need to go that fast just to determine how bad something is. I'm just looking for a completely smooth ride at 55. I'll check back in once I get someone that can RF match a wheel/tire assembly. 

[drolds1]

Have you tried swapping the front and rear wheels to see if the characteristics of the vibration change, or disappear entirely?  Also, if you mentioned it, I didn't see it, but is your Fusion AWD?