Scott66gta Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Greetings, Noob here... I have a 2007 Mercury fusion (Milan) with the 5 speed FNR5 auto. This car has been nice for over 100,000 miles, but the trans is acting up now. The 3-2 downshift is harsh, and now throws the wrench light. The dealer reprogrammed the PCM, and they did a fluid swapout. Supposedly, it still has the shudder. Below is a list of observances that the cars has presented. I gave this list to the dealer.. Mercury Milan In for Transmission shifting issue History Last 4-5 months, the original battery has been real weak. In the last month and a half, the car has had a dead battery on a few occasions. Three weeks ago and new battery was installed. The trans issue started prior to the battery replacement. I was postulating that the battery was causing the trans module to lose its programming or something. New battery did not fix. If I remove battery cable, it would run fine for a while, but the 2-3 upshift was a little rough, and the 3-2 downshift was harsh. The wrench on the dash came on, and the trans would shudder violently when placed from park to reverse, acting like it was put into two gears at the same time. For 3 weeks, the trans worked fine, as long as I don’t have it in gear when I slow to less than 25 mph. I would shift into neutral when approaching a stop. If I did not do this, the trans would go directly to 1st and the engine revs would go to 2500-3000 rpms. Once this happens, I would have to shut the engine off and restart, which would sometime work, but usually I would have to disconnect the battery for 5 minutes. . While driving the car to your dealership, the car started acting up again, not knowing what gear to be in, and/or the convertor was locking and unlocking. It was acting like a sensor was wigging out, causing bad data to be supplied to the trans module or something. I would guess that the learning part of the module would be compromised when given bad data to interpret. The trans has not has a fluid flush, and definitely needs one. For at least 3 years, the trans would occasionally, during the 1-2 upshift, rev to 2000-2500 rpm before shifting when cold, but not all of the time. Other issues include the secondary air pump system, and the cooling system. I was getting a P0128, coolant not up to temp. A thermostat and coolant temp sensor change seems to have fixed that. Codes P0410 and P0491 came up, secondary air pump system, I hotwired the pump at the relay box, the pump sounded like the brushed were bad, as it sounded like intermittent operation. Upon removal of one of the hoses, the pump was full of water. Research provided info of the control valve not closing letting in condensation from the exhaust. The valve was removed, and it tested OK. The vacuum lines were checked, and found a hole in side of line due to rubbing on the engine. I repaired line, codes show that ODB-II is still pending. I do not know if the vacuum line issue affected the other issues with the car. The CEL codes have been fixed. I am wondering if the weak battery started all of this. I read a thread on the forum where that owner had a similar issue, which was fixed with a fresh battery. I talked to an independent trans shop in town that has a very good reputation, and they suggested adding a friction modifier to the fluid to help the shifting. It seems that solenoids are sticking and causing the trans to try to engage two gears at once.. I am going to try this, because I have nothing to loose. I can get a used trans for $400, but am concerned that an issue external to the trans is causing this. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for any replies.. Edited June 15, 2012 by Scott66gta 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I also agree that it might be a sensor problem. Either one of the tranny speed sensors is bad, the wiring to them is damaged, or your alternator is failing and putting out dirty voltage that is interfering with sensor signals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott66gta Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Greetings again... I am providing an update to the above so that others with this issue can benefit. Below are entries in another forum.... From poster 1: The wrench lamp doesn't necessarily indicate a trans problem. It could be a problem with the electronic throttle body. If the lamp is on, there will be a code. Get it scanned and let us know what the codes are. DONT PUT ANY SNAKE OIL IN IT!!!!! These are supposed to have Ford synth fluid only although my wifes (2006 fusion) is working fine with valvoline max-life. Me: Thanks for you reply... not many in forum land want to touch this one, can't say I blame them. It did throw a code, a P07XX or other, but I don't have it in front of me right now.. I picked the car up from the dealer, paid the $425 for diagnostics and fluid change, and drove up the road 1/4 mile, when I noticed the speedometer needle going haywire. I did a U-turn and headed back to the dealer. Upon approaching the traffic signal, the car died and trans shuddered, along with the speedo going nuts. The wrench light flashed once, I believe. They have it again. I told them that I'm thinking that the trans or computer is receiving bad input data from the sensors. They said they checked all that. My response to that was that sensors are flaky and issues are often intermittent. We'll see.. I'll get you the code as soon as i see the paperwork again.. The dealer want to put in a new trans, wich they re not going to get the chance to do, as I'll put a used one in (my brother works in a used parts salvage yard). My concern is that something external to the trans is causing this, and the repacement trans will see the same fate.. No more auto trans ford cars for me Next one will be a stick shift. My last ford car, a 96 Sable, had trans issues too. Poster 2 brand of trans doesnt matter . they all can give you a repair bill . dealers , flat rate techs only going to spend so much time Poster 3 Gonna be kinda hard to do anything without that number. If the dealer says you need a new trans, 99% sure you do. Unless you know how to build them yourself. Poster 4 While trans control is entirely with the ECM, the valves could be leaking or sticking also, so it could be mechanical rather than control. It's a crap-shoot without more diagnostic info. Get those codes. Me Update: The code thrown at the dealer was P0744- torque converter. I still think there is something goofy going on with the inputs. Garbage in, Garbage out.. Another mechanic friend I know postulated if the input and output speed sensors don't jive, due to a faulty signal, it could cause the TCM to wig out.. I picked it up from the dealer, (Dan H, the dealer's name begins with a "K"), and the speedo was not working right. It would jump around and evendently make the tranny shift wierd, and TC would slip and lock up again. It did not do this prior to the TCM reprogram. I limped it up to a notable trans shop in town that has a good rep, and this morning the owner hooked up a bluepoint code scanner to it and took it for a ride. The P0744 was not on there, but a P0720 was- OSS (output shaft sensor), thus kinda supporting my external fubar sensor theory. He wanted me to drive it for a while, to get more info to scan. BTW, the car drove fine for him, which is just my luck. I took it and drove to work the long way this AM for about 20 miles, and the car drove flawlessly.. I don't know if he "loosened something" or it just decided not to throw a fit today. His scanner did not show P0744, BTW I found this document online, Mazda FNR5 (FWD) Transmission FNR5 is mechanically similar to the FN transmission; with an add-on gear set increasing it from a four-speed to a five-speed transmission. Transmission Inputs The Transmission Range Sensor (TRS) provides a single analog input to the TCM. This input voltage is monitored for mis-adjustment (P0706), opens (P0708) and shorts (P0707). The Turbine Shaft Speed (TSS) sensor is a variable reluctance sensor; with rationality check for opens and shorts (P0715). Intermediate Shaft Speed (ISS) and Output Shaft Speed (OSS) sensors are analog inputs that are checked for rationality. If the engine rpm is above the torque converter stall speed or one of the two speed sensors has sufficient signal, it can be inferred that the vehicle must be moving. If there is insufficient output from the ISS sensor, a malfunction is indicated (P0791). If there is insufficient output from the OSS sensor, or a disconnected sensor a malfunction is indicated (P0720). Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor is checked for stuck (P0711), Low input or Short (P0712) and High input or open (P0713). Transmission Outputs Shift Solenoids The three On/Off Shift Solenoids (SSD, SSE, SSF) output circuits are checked for opens and shorts by the TCM by monitoring the status of a feedback circuit from the output driver (P0768, P0773, P2709 respectively). The shift solenoids are functionally (mechanically) checked by means of a comprehensive malfunction pattern test. This monitor examines gear ratios to determine if a shift solenoid failure is stuck on (P0767, P0772, P2708) or stuck off (P0766, P0771, P2707 respectively). The four Duty Cycle Solenoids (SSA, SSB, SSC, PCB) are functionally checked by means of comprehensive malfunction patterns for stuck on (P0752, P0757, P0762, and P0777), for stuck off (P0751, P0756, P0761, no code for PCB), and have a continuity check for open or shorted (P0753, P0758, P0763, P0778). Torque Converter Clutch Multiple solenoids control the TCC in the FNR5 transmission. Electrical checks for all shift solenoids are performed as indicated above. The TCC is checked functionally by evaluating torque converter slip under steady state conditions when the torque converter is fully applied. If the slip exceeds the malfunction thresholds when the TCC is commanded on, a TCC malfunction is indicated (P0741). If slip is below an open converter threshold when the TCC is commanded off, a TCC malfunction is indicated through the shift solenoid functional test (P0742). The TCC also has a check for intermittent slip detection (P0744). Pressure Control Solenoid The Pressure Control Solenoid A is a linear solenoid. This solenoid has a continuity check for shorts and opens (P0745). FORD MOTOR COMPANY REVISION DATE: NOVEMBER 12, 2007 PAGE 153 OF 159 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Power Supply If the TCM input power voltage is low a code is set (P0882). CAN Communications The TCM receives information from the ECM via the high speed CAN connection. If the CAN link or network fails the TCM no longer has engine information available. The TCM will store a U0073 fault code if the CAN Bus is off or a U0100 fault code if the TCM stops receiving CAN messages from the ECM. __________________ Me again Update Drove it from work back up to the trans shop after a day at work, car misbehaved again. The speedo did not work again, but when it did decide to work, the trans worked fine. This morning, the shop connected an analyzer to it and drove to retrieve the codes. Their prognosis with a high level of confidence is a intermittent Output speed sensor and/or wiring. I gave them the go ahead to perform their level 1 diagnostics, which involves intercepting the various sensors’ signals. This is my kind of diagnosis- Poster 4 Sounds like you're on the right track. The only way to know if it's the sensors, is to test them. If the issue is intermittent, they must be tested while in-use. Sometimes you can track intermittent issues at home in the wiring with a VOM and doing the wiring scrunch-and-wiggle thing. Good luck! Poster 2 the pcm controlled trans and the old school type both need inputs from outside source's to operate . #1 rule fix known problems first Me I agree 100%... Like I said, garbage in, garbage out... I hope to hear from the trans shop today on the car. I am somewhat dissapointed at the dealer, as they wouldn't dive into the true cause of the issue, but rather change parts. Hell, I can change parts... It's like trading in your car because the ash tray is full.... I can understand the dealer's stance, but how many customers have they raked over the coals buy doing schiitt (FE-ism, btw) like this to customers? You betcha I going to complain to Ford on this. (not that it'll make a difference)... I do controls and automation for a living, and if I did this, I'd be out of a job. When diagnosing issues, you have to do a root cause analysis to get the source. Anything else is a symtom. In this case, disconnecting the battery for an hour and having the trans work fine was the first clue. With a bad input, the TCM learns wrong and then we're back to square one. It's a shame the dealer could not process this. Another thing, the speedo appeared to work fine until Ford reprogrammed the TCM. I pointed out that it worked when I brought it in. If I complain to Ford, maybe I'll get a free Ford coffee mug (fat chance) or something... off the soap box... I'll repost when I get more info, so others can benefit from this buffoonery.. Poster 1 What was the reasoning for the dealership wanting to replace the trans? Me They said that Ford said it is a "non-servicable transmission" and "they don't list any parts for it".. This tells me that they don't want to open up that can of worms, and/or they don't have any tranmission specialists Me Well, I called and it is ready to be picked up... A new OSS (output Speed Sensor) and it shifts fine, according to the shop. The damage? $415.00 I gave the dealership $425.. In a way, the dealer doing something to make the speedo go ape-schitt kinda pointed out the problem. Too bad they couldn't fix their own products. Makes you wonder. Maybe there are no bad Ford transmissions... just bad service dept's. Grrr. Poster 1 Most shops, dealers included, prefer to just swap out major components like trans and engines rather than repair them. The tools, knowledge and warranty liability required make major repairs\rebuilds done in-house not profitable when compared to a readily available drop in unit. A shop is only as good as it's techs. Dealers included. Dealerships pull from the same talent pool as independant shops. While they should have a technical advantage, the skill to use it isn't always there. Your case is why you don't just start adding snake oil hoping for an easy fix. Often you just make things worse. Glad you figgered it out. Me The snake oil this was a friction modifier that they used to put in early AOD's when the torque converter used to shudder. It was an effective fix, if I recall correctly. My case was different, as if I reset the computers, it would shift fine for a while, until the computer re-learned the shift strategy. Poster 1 The torque conv shudder you speak of was caused by breakdown of the original fluid. The correct fix was to replace the broken down fluid , not to add to it. Me: Picked up the car yesterday, and it shifts like a new car, even better than before. There was always a pronounced 3-2 downshift event, which is gone... They dropped the pan to inspect the contents, and replace the output speed sensor. My concerns were correct, as sensor was giving the TCM bad, intermittent data, causing it to do stuff it shouldn't. As stated before, I'm dissapointed with the dealers service dept, whether it is their policy or Ford's. If their thinking is to sell the high dollar fix to make money, then they still lose, because I'l never go back there except for warranty work. While it was in there, they did replace the Secondary Air Pump under warranty, (PZEV), so that saved me some $$. I replaced the t'stat and coolant sensor myself, turns out they were still under warranty. NY sells california emmisions cars, so hence te PZEV status. Thanks for all of the replies on this, I posted it here and on a few other sites to perhaps inform other Fusion owners about this buffoonery.. Edited June 30, 2012 by Scott66gta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Old Post.... I know. Gonna See if anyone can help. If not I love talking to my self! 2008 Fusion FNR5 transmission- throwing code P2709 always same code check engine also. The main solenoids have been done, fluid changed, wiring checked, new battery, tune up, happens on and off usually down shifting. Any one have this issue? - Where is the 5th gear valve body otherwise termed the secondary control valve body? apparently this contains the solenoid for the 5th gear anb I did not change this one. -I have not changed the pressure control valve either. No TCM or PCM yet either. - I am leaning toward TCM change- can I do this myself without major cost or programming? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Hello, First posting here. I have a 2009 Mercury Milan with 125k miles, 2.3L with automatic transmission. Been just an amazing dependable car for me. I have not changed the ATF since I bought the car. Last month, the wrench light came on. Transmission shifts into reverse rough with a shudder as described in original post. All other upshifts and downshifts are the same but are a little more rough than usual but nothing extreme. No codes present with my OBDII scanner. I took into the dealer to read the code. It came up P0745 (Pressure Control Solenoid). I dropped the transmission pan and replaced the Pressure Control Solenoid, Solenoid "A" and Solenoid "B" as they came in a new trans filter/gasket package. I measured the resistance of the new Pressure Control Solenoid and the old Pressure Control Solenoid and they both measured 4.2 Ohms. The transmission fluid was black but did not smell burnt and there was minimal buildup on the magnet at the bottom of the pan. I reassembled everything and while the upshifting/downshifting is a little more smooth, the rough engagement in reverse is still present along with the wrench light. Any other directions to pursue? Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On a follow-up to this issue, I took the car to the dealer who confirmed the P0745 code. They pulled the pan and replaced the solenoid. Orange wrench light still on. Recommended to replace the TCM (Transmission Control Module for about $ 1,000. Took the car back home and was able to find a donor car to get a used operating TCM. Replaced the TCM and the orange wrench light was gone. Took the car for a drive for about a block and it turned back on again. Car sat all night. In the morning, no wrench light for about the first 5 miles then turned on. Sat for another 7 hours at school, wrench light turned on after a couple miles of driving. Since then, has remained on. Ready to take back into the dealer again. Any suggestions? Thank You 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 SOLVED - I checked all the wiring for continuity and solenoids for Ohm resistance. They all checked OK. I ended up replacing the entire valve body for about $350 and to be safe, I replaced the transmission position sensor for about $55. I purchased another used TCM and the orange wrench light and hard shift into Reverse is gone. The transmission operates like its brand new. Even though the trouble code indicated P0745, the transmission behaved very differently between the second TCM I purchased (hard shift into Reverse) and the original TCM (hard shift into Reverse and not shifting into 4th gear). If you are having shifting issues, I would highly recommend doing a full electrical diagnostic on the TCM, wiring harness, and transmission solenoids before having the transmission replaced. After having the car over 10 years and with over 140k miles on it, I find the FNR5 transmission to be quite robust mechanically. A bad TCM can make it behave quite erratically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 This problem cropped up again after about 30k miles. Replaced battery which was going on 3 years. Solved issue 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 After about 4-5 days of driving, the orange wrench light and hard shift has returned. Took it to the dealer and they were able to pull code P0763, shift solenoid C circuit. Pin check did not find any faults. They took the vehicle for a 60 mile drive and could not replicate the issue. Will be returning vehicle tomorrow to see if they can determine what is causing the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2nd visit at Dealer and they were able to duplicate the problem. They dropped the transmission pan and replaced shift solenoid C along with new transmission filter & fluid for $950 which didn't solve the problem. They ended up replacing the TCM which so far has solved the issue. They took care of the labor and charged the TCM at cost so total damage was about $ 1,600.00 and 3 visits to get this repaired. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Ugh, after 3 weeks of perfect operation, the same symptoms have come back after replacing the solenoid valve and TCM. My son took it back to the dealer to see if they can find the electrical gremlin that plagues this vehicle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) Dealer pulled the P0763 fault code again. They said the solenoid was sticking and replaced it at no charge. Car has been working well without any issues since. Hoping we have finally solved this issue. Edited December 2, 2021 by nanookvd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 5 hours ago, nanookvd said: Dealer pulled the P0763 fault code again. They said the solenoid was sticking and replaced it an no charge. Car has been working well without any issues since. Hoping we have finally solved this issue. Thanks for the update. I hope it's fixed for good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanookvd Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Thank you. I hope so as well. No reason both of these Milans can't make it to over 200k miles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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