jayyvee Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I have an 11/30/12 build date and no fuel tank problems. I put in 11 gallons yesterday with a 150 miles DTE reading. After I filled up yesterday my estimated range was over 500 miles. The time before, I put in between 14-14.5 gallons (I don't remember the exact amount) with a 17 mile DTE reading. It occurred to me that everyone posting here with problems might have MyFord Touch. I wonder if my non MFT car has a different calibration for the fuel gauge? Of course that wouldn't explain the problems some people are having with actually putting fuel in their tanks. I do not have MFT, and I am having the same issue with my 2.0l SE. Glad this forum has a good discussion on this, other forums trying to talk about this issue seem to be filled with naysayers at best (trolls at worst). Have reported this to my Ford dealer, awaiting a reply and case/ticket information. 2 fill-ups with '11 to E' and '12 to E', and I"m getting just shy of 13 gals pumped in. Once from my normal gas station (fairly updated facility) and the other a very new (less than year old) gas station.. (Saw a mention that maybe the gas nozzle at the station is the issue if it's old and is spraying oddly and triggering the capless sensors or something - not in either of my cases really). Have reported to my Dealer over the weekend, awaiting some formal information back on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamweasel Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Talked to a Ford rep today. (Not the engineer I was trying to get a hold of but someone else who knows what is going on.) Basically, they said the TSB on the Escape regarding the gauge calculation is a "similar" problem to what is happening on the Fusion. They are working on the fix but they didn't have an ETA at this time. They did say that when the car hits zero miles to empty 1 gallon of fuel should be left not 3-ish as most of us have been seeing. So I am just going to check again with them in a few months to see if the fix has been released. (Or if I hear anything before then I will post it here. They have my # and are supposed to call me when the fix is developed.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) They did say that when the car hits zero miles to empty 1 gallon of fuel should be left not 3-ish as most of us have been seeing. He probably meant a gallon of usable fuel remaining. There's probably another half gallon or so of unusable fuel that remains in the tank (pickup can't reach it), so the total fuel left in the tank (usable+unusable) should be about 1.5-1.7 gallons (about 10% of tank capacity) when the display shows 0 DTE. Again for those reading this, you can't tell whether it's a gauge problem or a tank problem just by looking at the refill capacity from 0 DTE. To find out if it's the gauge you would have to see how many miles past 0 DTE you can drive before running out of gas. I think only one person did this so far and used about 1.3 additional gallons (44 miles). In his case that would mean the problem lies with the tank. If you can drive like 60 miles or more past 0 DTE then you might have a gauge problem rather than a tank problem. Edited March 6, 2013 by FusionDiffusion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionNewbie Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Posted this in the 2.0L consumption thread - might as well post it here. Just did my first fill up at 10 DTE - did the three click method and got 13.35 gallons in. At least it sounds as if Ford is looking into it...hopefully they produce something on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm starting to believe that if you are able to get 13-13.5 Gallons in the tank when at empty, you are probably having the issue of the reserve being too large. There still seem to be some who at empty can only get 11-12 gallons in the tank, which would be both the tank issue and the calculation of the reserve. The only reason why I am starting to think this is because iamweasel had his tank replaced, but is now seeing the issue where at empty he can only get so much in tank. This was after the dealer was able to get very close to 16.5 gallons in after installing the new tank. So it seems to be two issues (though not everyone is affected by the first). Good to hear they are working on the "reserve" issue. I will be following up with my Customer Service Manager today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtenor Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm starting to believe that if you are able to get 13-13.5 Gallons in the tank when at empty, you are probably having the issue of the reserve being too large. There still seem to be some who at empty can only get 11-12 gallons in the tank, which would be both the tank issue and the calculation of the reserve. The only reason why I am starting to think this is because iamweasel had his tank replaced, but is now seeing the issue where at empty he can only get so much in tank. This was after the dealer was able to get very close to 16.5 gallons in after installing the new tank. So it seems to be two issues (though not everyone is affected by the first). Good to hear they are working on the "reserve" issue. I will be following up with my Customer Service Manager today. Posted this in the 2.0L consumption thread - might as well post it here. Just did my first fill up at 10 DTE - did the three click method and got 13.35 gallons in. At least it sounds as if Ford is looking into it...hopefully they produce something on it. I would like to request that anyone who is able to get to 13+ gallons on a three click approach when fueling before 0 DTE to try something mentioned earlier in this thread. Can you use the "slow-fill" method where you pump the gas in more slowly and once you reach full, you wait a minute then pump until it clicks? (You would wait a minute after each click until the next click is essentially immediate). At least one person reported being able to get a couple more gallons of fuel in using that approach. The reason I ask if someone will do this it that I have a sneaking suspicion that there may be an issue with the capless filler neck on some of the cars...anyway...it's just a thought. I would do it, but I can't even get to 13 gallons...at all, so this is research I can't participate in...sadly. I am still closing in on my first regular service, so I hope to have some input from the dealership soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I can give my non-scientific results on this: I filled up on Monday night and did this exact thing. I waited about a minute between clicks. I was able to get 13.352 gallons in at 6 miles DTE. The previous time I filled up I was able to get in 13.0xx at 10 miles DTE. I took my car in last week for the dealer to look at it. They checked the filler neck (they mentioned that could be the issue), and a few other tests to make sure it was venting properly and found everything was normal. The tech went to the gas station and did several tests there and found no issue. This is why I'm starting to believe there are two separate issues. First is the tank issue, and if you can't get roughly 13 gallons in when a 0 miles DTE then you should have you tank checked out. The second is the reserve being too high, which is a computer issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbers Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I agree, I just filled up a few mins ago, exactly the same results. went 12.7 gallons on a tank from full to empty, filled up at 3 clicks, first stopped at 12.7, second 13.0 and third 13.2 gallons.. I went 322 miles. I was 6 miles distance to empty on the computer. I am too chicken to drive it till it runs out of gas. But considering in the capacity test where they want the service department to drop the tank, empty it out, put one gallon in and then go to the gas station and see how much you could add there. That means that the car should be able to reach the last gallon, maybe not the whole thing but it means down to the last gallon should be usable. Or else how would you get the car to the gas station with only one galllon of fuel... The service department said they ran it as long as they could, and the fill up was 13.5 gallons. (its really not a good thing to have to "guess" when your car is really out of fuel.) Why can't the gauge just be honest and accurate instead of trying to trick you. When it says empty, and 0 dte you should be stalling on the side of the road, not being able to drive another 50 miles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwin Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have had issues as well since i got the car. For me the Low tank warning comes on with a little over 1/8 of a tank. I fill up and its around 13 or 13.5 max usually. I let the warning bar go from yellow to red this last time (went 30 miles past initial warning...but then was too nervous to go further). This was my 4th fill up so I decided to fill up till 1st click, wait 15 sec, top off, wait 15 sec, top off.......etc. I managed 15.4 gallons. I was able to get an entire gallon plus extra this way. My only luck was no one was in line behind me. Can't do this every fill up. Because I was able to get in this extra gas by this slow process, my feeling is the vacuum/pressure created in the capless system just isn't purging correctly (or quickly enough) when filling up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayyvee Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) I have had issues as well since i got the car. For me the Low tank warning comes on with a little over 1/8 of a tank. I fill up and its around 13 or 13.5 max usually. I let the warning bar go from yellow to red this last time (went 30 miles past initial warning...but then was too nervous to go further). This was my 4th fill up so I decided to fill up till 1st click, wait 15 sec, top off, wait 15 sec, top off.......etc. I managed 15.4 gallons. I was able to get an entire gallon plus extra this way. My only luck was no one was in line behind me. Can't do this every fill up. Because I was able to get in this extra gas by this slow process, my feeling is the vacuum/pressure created in the capless system just isn't purging correctly (or quickly enough) when filling up. This seems to make the most sense to me in relation to my own fill-up woes. Only filled up twice since I've had it, both times I was '11 till E' and '12 till E' and got in 12.9 or so both times.. Wait a few secs, slowly squeeze in more and I get to 13.3/13.4 each time respectively. Did not go past 1 extra slow pump, as I didn't want to risk gas gushing down the side of a new car. Woah: Just saw you're down the road from me! I've only seen 2 other cars of ours on the road, both white - one of them you?? (I commute daily to the Kennesaw area from Woodstock). Edited March 7, 2013 by jayyvee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtenor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have had issues as well since i got the car. For me the Low tank warning comes on with a little over 1/8 of a tank. I fill up and its around 13 or 13.5 max usually. I let the warning bar go from yellow to red this last time (went 30 miles past initial warning...but then was too nervous to go further). This was my 4th fill up so I decided to fill up till 1st click, wait 15 sec, top off, wait 15 sec, top off.......etc. I managed 15.4 gallons. I was able to get an entire gallon plus extra this way. My only luck was no one was in line behind me. Can't do this every fill up. Because I was able to get in this extra gas by this slow process, my feeling is the vacuum/pressure created in the capless system just isn't purging correctly (or quickly enough) when filling up. Your experience is the one that tells folks in my position that there is a definite issue with tank capacity. Getting 2.5 gallons more gas in your car without it running down the side via an overflow says that the car is designed to hold more fuel and that more of it should be usable. I will be referencing this thread when I take my car in with the hopes that the service dept can use it to get Ford to help diagnose the various issues. Thanks for posting! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I spoke with my Customer Service Rep for the New England area, and she said I will be getting a call from one of the technical experts early next week. She said he would know if there is anything in the works regarding possible TSBs regarding this issue. Hopefully it is someone who can provide some insight/details. I will post whatever I find out during the call. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwin Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 This seems to make the most sense to me in relation to my own fill-up woes. Only filled up twice since I've had it, both times I was '11 till E' and '12 till E' and got in 12.9 or so both times.. Wait a few secs, slowly squeeze in more and I get to 13.3/13.4 each time respectively. Did not go past 1 extra slow pump, as I didn't want to risk gas gushing down the side of a new car. Woah: Just saw you're down the road from me! I've only seen 2 other cars of ours on the road, both white - one of them you?? (I commute daily to the Kennesaw area from Woodstock). I dont mind spilling a bit of gas doing this method but does anyone have any concerns about damaging internal parts while topping off, I have seen some posts about messing up some emissions controls, any truth to that? Jayyvee...nope I went with the sterling grey but have seen a white one rolling around ou neck of the woods. ( I head to atl every day). How about you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayyvee Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I dont mind spilling a bit of gas doing this method but does anyone have any concerns about damaging internal parts while topping off, I have seen some posts about messing up some emissions controls, any truth to that? Jayyvee...nope I went with the sterling grey but have seen a white one rolling around ou neck of the woods. ( I head to atl every day). How about you? Sterling Grey was my first choice but couldn't find exactly (and only) what I wanted, so I went with Tux Black. Saw 2 white ones almost back to back on Chastain, thought they might be dealer cars but both had state tags. I am going to try Txtenor's suggestion at my next fill-up, try to run it into the ground till 0 is left, fill it up and slow pump as as many times as it takes slowly to see what it can take before she can't take any more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtenor Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 So I called the dealer today to schedule my first regular service and talked with the service rep about the tank issue. They have updated the system with regards to troubleshooting the issue with specific steps for going with the owner to witness a refuel to make sure the amount going in is consistent with the gauge reading prior to fill-up. If not, then they will bring it in and drop the tank to troubleshoot further. I plan to take mine in next week for an oil change, 7500-10000 mile service (tire rotation, and fluids checked and all) and while it's there see if I can get the headliner sorted out, the sagging trunk lid resolved and the gas tank issue at least initiated. We'll see how it goes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwin Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 After thinking back at my last 4 fill ups....the one thing that seems to be fairly accurate with me is the gallons used on the trip readout. So if we can get at least one close to "true 16.5 gallon fill up", we can go off the gallons used instead of the miles to empty or the tank registry gauge. Have y'all noticed the same (ie the gallons used vs the amount you fill up is really close to that with just one top off/ click at the fuel pump)? Jayyvee I am up at the town center area all the time so next time I see a black fusion ill give you a nod. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamweasel Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Well today I confirmed with my own eyes my tank is over 16 gallons in capacity. I ran my car 37 miles past the point where it said zero miles to empty. I stopped at a gas station and I got 16.33 gallons in. I had a really slow pump so I think that helped some as I stopped the pump the first time at 15.25 gallons. I think it may have stopped sooner if I had a faster pump. (It didn't actually click-off by itself, though. The pump must be broken as fuel started coming out so I had to stop it myself. I had a little bit of lost fuel but not too much. It didn't make a big pool on the ground or anything as I just had to wipe a little bit off the outside of the car.) After hitting 15.25 I waited a minute or so and about 5 clicks later I was at 16.33. That is definitely the most I have ever pumped in at one time. So the moral of the story is yes, our gauges are too aggressive in calculating miles to empty and do NOT go more than 40 miles past the zero miles to empty mark. I clearly didn't have much fuel left at 37 miles past and another poster said they ran out around 44 miles past. I don't think I will push it further.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVTchris Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Filled up today at 5 miles past 0 DTE and was surprised that I was able to put in 14.53 gals. The most I was ever able to put in before at or just past 0 DTE was 13.1. I will say it took 5 clicks with last 3 at a slow rate and there was a very noticable amount of gurgling during this fill up. The trip odo said I only used 13.2 gals. Not sure what to make of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbers Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Here is a question I don't think i've seen answered yet, in your trip meter information, what is the most you've seen your car use in gallons from full to the time you fill up (33 miles past empty for example). Was it 14.5? 15? gallons? My tank consistently says 12.8 gallons used at empty ( first shut off on the pump also says this, then I top off with two more clicks that brings me to 13.2 to 13.5 gallons at the most.) So the question is, how much fuel is in the tank when we fill up? Is there 1 gallon or 3.5? When we top off at full, how much gas is really in the tank? 16.5? 13.5? That really is the confusing point here, if your yellow fuel light comes on at a hair above the E line, with about 20 miles on the distance to empty and 12.5 gallons used, then you drive another 50 miles (say 2 gallons). That should mean your car is at 14.5 gallons used? So here is a little pole, what is the furthest you have driven your car where the trip computer said gallons used before you finally said I better fill up or be stranded. One thing you have to be aware of: newer gas pumps actually avoid spillage through sucking gas back into the nozzle, its that vapor recovery system. so you may have been topped off for quite sometime and you just dumped 2 gallons of gas back into the pump. Someone correct me if im wrong, this isn't all pumps just newer ones that have that cap around where the nozzle meets your fill port. Here is some info on the topic: http://enviro.blr.com/environmental-news/air/mobile-sources/Dont-Top-off-Your-Gas-Tank-Save-Money-at-the-Gas-/ Edited March 14, 2013 by cranbers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayyvee Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Wow some great posts today on this, seems to be following the same trend many are having the 'aggressive ECU computing' for the 'until E' warning, combined with possible nozzle/pressure sensors tied to the issue (IE: car says hey, I can only take 13.2 gals as that's all I 'used', so when I reach that - I balk, but will take gas slowly pumped until I check and balk some more or a manual overflow sensor is reached - IE: ut oh, gas is running down my car!). Cranbers - on my 3rd fill-up, I actually thought the same as being important (how much does the car 'think' it drank?) and recorded this bit of info yesterday. Previous tank last week - I filled up to about 13.5 (clicked off right at 13.. waiting, slowly pumped twice to 13.5). Yesterday, I was '9 until E' and my estimated 'used' gas was 13.39 gallons (pretty darn close to what I put in, and relates exactly to how much I used this time around 'until E'. I filled up directly to 13.22 this time, and did not continue to slow pump more. I will try to nail it at '9 until E' again and see if it says I used '13.22' or a very close approximate again and will report. I am agreeing with the thinking of the ECU having overly aggressive 'until E' measurement, combined possibly with electronic sensors saying 'how much' more the tank can or should be able to 'take' when filling up, thus effecting the fuel flow (clicking off all the darn time until allowed to 'reset'). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 so you may have been topped off for quite sometime and you just dumped 2 gallons of gas back into the pump. Someone correct me if im wrong Ummm.....you might want to reread that article. They're talking about a few drops of gas, not 2 gallons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbers Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 If someone hits the auto shut off 11 times and .2 gallons comes out each time, it didn't say their was a limit, read the sign on the pump next time your there: This gasoline pump is fitted with special nozzles to protect you from breathing gas vapors and to reduce air pollution. Warning: Repeated attempts to pump gasoline after the automatic shut-off indicates your tank is full may result in spills or recirculation of gasoline. All my point is that just because your pumping 15.5 gallons into your tank when the trip computer said you used 13.x and the auto shut off clicked off at that point. Now you over ride the auto shut off over and over getting a few more gallons in. Doesn't it make sense its possible a lot of that is going back into their pump and not into the gas tank like you think? Just a thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 It's VAPOR recovery not a recirculation system. It might suck up a few drops of overflow fuel but not 2 gallons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwin Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Here is a question I don't think i've seen answered yet, in your trip meter information, what is the most you've seen your car use in gallons from full to the time you fill up (33 miles past empty for example). Was it 14.5? 15? gallons? My tank consistently says 12.8 gallons used at empty ( first shut off on the pump also says this, then I top off with two more clicks that brings me to 13.2 to 13.5 gallons at the most.) So the question is, how much fuel is in the tank when we fill up? Is there 1 gallon or 3.5? When we top off at full, how much gas is really in the tank? 16.5? 13.5? That really is the confusing point here, if your yellow fuel light comes on at a hair above the E line, with about 20 miles on the distance to empty and 12.5 gallons used, then you drive another 50 miles (say 2 gallons). That should mean your car is at 14.5 gallons used? So here is a little pole, what is the furthest you have driven your car where the trip computer said gallons used before you finally said I better fill up or be stranded. One thing you have to be aware of: newer gas pumps actually avoid spillage through sucking gas back into the nozzle, its that vapor recovery system. so you may have been topped off for quite sometime and you just dumped 2 gallons of gas back into the pump. Someone correct me if im wrong, this isn't all pumps just newer ones that have that cap around where the nozzle meets your fill port. 5th fill up today Went 22 miles past the 0 miles warning. (did not hit the red warning this time - just the yellow) Readout said i used 14.74 gallons. 1st auto shoutoff click was pretty much dead on that 14 3/4 gallons at the pump. Line was long at the pump so felt a bit rushed and only topped up with 2 more clicks - Total right at 15 gallons. I really think if i would have the time i could have gotten another 1/2 gallon with the wait/pump/wait/pump routine i did last time. (my last fill up was 15.4 and i went 30miles past zero). So i do think that there is right at a gallon in the tank still (although i am wondering if the built up vapor pressure system gets better with each trip to the gas tank - if you force more gallons in each time that is). If anyone ever gets 16 plus gallons in their tank id be interested to know if it hits that mark pretty much every time on a consistent basis. Ill post again at next fill up (hopefully wont be a long line). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daciresi Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 My last 3 fill-ups continue to show the same pattern: 3/3/13 -- Had driven 252.8 miles & used 11.89 gallons (at 15 miles to empty). Stopped on first click due to being in a hurry... pumped 11.339 gallons. 3/9/13 -- Had driven 235.9 miles & used 11.34 gallons (at 9 miles to empty). Did a very slow fill with several additional clicks (seemed like gas was about to overflow from tank)... pumped 12.608 gallons. 3/15/13 -- Had driven 256.3 miles & used 12.16 gallons (at 13 miles to empty). Normal fill with three top-off clicks (again sounded like gas was right at the top of the tank)... pumped 12.662 gallons. I guess no one who has opened a ticket with a dealer has heard anything yet??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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