JoeliusZ28 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Hey all, In light of all the issues with the 6F35 transmission, I was wondering if anyone has actually taken it upon themselves to convert their fusion to the G6M manual? I know in most cases this type of thing doesn't make financial sense and its easier to just sell/buy your way into such an arrangement. However, I'm quite certain my 6F35 isnt going to last forever (it does funky things every day, and has the shift flare) and if it were to die, the thought of spending another $3k on another problematic transmission isnt very appealing to me. The rest of the car is great and I know the full history of it, so pending some of the details i thought maybe this could actually work out to be worth it if its planned out in advance. I am mechanically inclined and have done such projects on other vehicles, but nothing as new as a 2010... i fear there may be a lot to it. I would assume transmission clutch, pedals, shifter, center console pieces, and manual trans calibrated PCM at a minimum would be needed. I drove a friends fusion with the manual transmission and I found it a lot more enjoyable. So anyway, has this ever been done? Edited December 7, 2013 by JoeliusZ28 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeliusZ28 Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Bump, has anyone come across any information for this yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 No, because there isn't a good reason to do it. If you want a manual find a used one. Too hard to swap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeliusZ28 Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Not trying to be "smart" but what makes it too hard? Is there something specific about it makes it unfeasible? Is the car just too new that there have been no pioneers willing to try yet? Replacing the items i listed above, while it may not be cost effective, does not scare me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyross Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Computers, computers, computers, computers. There is too much linkage between different components. You have to treat it as a single powertrain, not a separate engine and transmission. You'd probably have to replace computers, wiring, connectors, and who knows what. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome11 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Many people did this kind of swap on the 99 to 02 Cougars. I think it would also be feasible on the Fusion. I think a computer swap would probably be needed but there may be a way to get around it. Try to find a wrecked donor car with what you need and study it very well to see if it is feasible. It should have everything you need to do the swap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Not sure but i doubt the cougars used an electronically controlled tranny back then. The PCM controls the engine and the tranny now so at the very least you'd have to get it reflashed after you add the proper wiring and sensors. It's no longer individual components - the entire drivetrain is a matched set. You'd be spending several thousand dollars more than you would if you simply traded it for one with a factory manual. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeliusZ28 Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 I had assumed I would need to replace the complete PCM with one from a manual, and likely the wiring harness as well. Automatics have been electronically controlled with the PCM for a long time now, and if you see a throttle by wire setup on the car (like we have) it pretty much has to be. but the manuals usually aren't computer controlled except for maybe reverse gear lockouts and things of that nature. Also, I'm only interested in taking this project on if the 6 speed automatic fails, where at that point I will be looking at a hefty parts bill and several hours of labor anyway. If it isn't justifiable it isn't justifiable, but at this point I haven't done enough homework to make that call. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstewartroc Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Back when I had a Focus, there were a couple of people who swapped the auto out for manual (we're talking 2008+ here) and it basically was the transmission, shifter and pedals, the computer worked fine with the manual, if I recall correctly, the only thing people ran into was that the shift up light didn't come on, and if you swapped the other way, the light would sometimes come on -Nick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 It's possible the software would work with either one but the PCM/Bus architecture may be different than the pre-2012 Focus. So what works on one may not work on the other. I know on the 2000-2006 Lincoln LS If you swap the PCM you'll have to get a dealer to reprogram everything including the cluster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeliusZ28 Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ah, so the odometer is recorded in the PCM rather than the gauge cluster? That is good to know! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I don't think the Cougar used CAN networking. There are all kinds of other modules that get their signals from the PCM, from the cluster to the climate control to the stability control and so on. It's all software, but if you don't get the configurations right, all kinds of seemingly unrelated things can go wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Automatics have been electronically controlled with the PCM for a long time now, and if you see a throttle by wire setup on the car (like we have) it pretty much has to be. but the manuals usually aren't computer controlled except for maybe reverse gear lockouts and things of that nature. Not necessarily. Fusions have a separate transmission control module (TCM). OTOH, my Lincoln LSes with the 5R55S/N transmissions had no TCM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ah, so the odometer is recorded in the PCM rather than the gauge cluster? That is good to know! No the odometer is in the cluster but it has to be paired with the PCM by the dealer or you'll get errors. This is to prevent people from tampering with the odometer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeliusZ28 Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Not necessarily. Fusions have a separate transmission control module (TCM). OTOH, my Lincoln LSes with the 5R55S/N transmissions had no TCM. Good to know, but i find that interesting... seems that the transmission would want immediate access to the engine management data in order to work properly. No the odometer is in the cluster but it has to be paired with the PCM by the dealer or you'll get errors. This is to prevent people from tampering with the odometer. Got it, thank you. So the question is now if the PCM needs to be changed at all or just the TCM... if just the TCM the odometer might not be an issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeliusZ28 Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) I don't think the Cougar used CAN networking. There are all kinds of other modules that get their signals from the PCM, from the cluster to the climate control to the stability control and so on. It's all software, but if you don't get the configurations right, all kinds of seemingly unrelated things can go wrong. Definitely agreed with you there, it would be great to see a diagram of everything that is networked together with CAN. CAN is a lot more touchy than traditional electronics. Edited April 24, 2014 by JoeliusZ28 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Good to know, but i find that interesting... seems that the transmission would want immediate access to the engine management data in order to work properly. Got it, thank you. So the question is now if the PCM needs to be changed at all or just the TCM... if just the TCM the odometer might not be an issue. The PCM doesn't have to be changed - just potentially reflashed with a manual calibration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Good to know, but i find that interesting... seems that the transmission would want immediate access to the engine management data in order to work properly. Got it, thank you. So the question is now if the PCM needs to be changed at all or just the TCM... if just the TCM the odometer might not be an issue. They do communicate with each other. To my knowledge, manual transmission-equipped cars don't have a TCM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 To my knowledge, manual transmission-equipped cars don't have a TCM. Sure they do. It's called a driver. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Sure they do. It's called a driver. You mean this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samturner36 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I know it's an old thread, but I am now also researching the possibility of swapping 6f35 to a manual transmission. My car is 2012 Fusion V6 3.0, so the options are different, but I think the electronic part is similar. I might be wrong, but I think the electronic part is much simpler than the mechanical part, including changing the shifter, transaxle, clutch pedal assembly, coolant line rerouting, etc. It may be hard to do the swap the other way around, because automatic transmission requires many inputs from engine, which is not the case in manual transmission. I believe engines do not receive any electronic inputs from transmissions in our cars. They change RPMs simply because gears are changed, which is the same in manual and automatic cars. The difference is just how the gears are changed. In manual cars, at least it's the case for G6M and A65M-R, gears are changed mechanically through shift cables. As long as we can control the RPMs of the engine through gas pedal, the car certainly can run, because it's the driver who decides whether and which specific gears are engaged. You can test this by simply disconnect connectors of 6F35 to see if you can still rev up the engine when you shift into drive or reverse. I checked the A65M-R transmission that I might be using, and I only found three connectors, neutral and reverse switches and a speed sensor. I am not sure if the speed sensor from Mazda is compatible with fusion, but the wires of neutral and reverse switches can be used as inputs to replace those from shifter of automatic transmission. Besides that, it may be as simple as just grounding the park wire of the automatic shifter, so that you can start the car. I don't think it's necessary to change gauge cluster. Because I have remote starter on my car, I think it's better to design a circuit that park wire is only grounded when the manual shifter is in neutral and parking brake is engaged. To make "D" of the gauge work, a circuit can be designed to energize the wire when the shifter is not in reverse or neutral. This way the only thing that doesn't work on the gauge cluster is the "M" or "L". I am not sure if cruise control will work though. I think it's possible that it will work, but gears need to be manually changed when the RPM is not in desired range. The other concern is whether the PCM will still try to compare information about RPMs, speed, gears, and go nuts when the combination is not what it expects. Even if that is the case, a tuner may solve the problem easily. Did I miss anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozz Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah, the bellhousing may not bolt up to a V6 with the G6M tranmission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The PCM is expecting feedback from the 6F35 and there isn't a PCM version for the 3.0 and manual trans. Not an easy task. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samturner36 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The PCM is expecting feedback from the 6F35 and there isn't a PCM version for the 3.0 and manual trans. Not an easy task. I was talking about A65M-R from Mazda, which is mated to V6 3.0 in Gen1 Mazda6. Some people used Fusion V6 3.0 to replace the MZI v6 3.0 with manual transmission. It proves that they can match. I am pretty sure that some people managed to solve the transmission input problems using resistors or custom tunes. As for OP, I think it's a much simpler process. Just remove the 6F35 and trans cooling lines and swap in the parts from manual I4 2.5L, and maybe a tune. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samturner36 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah, the bellhousing may not bolt up to a V6 with the G6M tranmission.I just found that Duratec 2.5 and 3.0 have the same bellhousing bolt pattern.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns So, G6M may work with V6 3.0, but I don't know if gear ratios are suitable for V6. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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