VonoreTn Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Last week my Wife was driving the FFH, and the throttle quit responding. She pulled over, and realized all she had was electric mode, with which she managed to drive about 3 miles to home. Half a tank of gas. I immediately drove the vehicle, and it acted normal, even at full throttle. The engine light was on. I pulled 2 codes with my OBD2 sensor, it listed them 1 and 2, but they were identical P2112's. I assume that means there were 2 events. I ran a Health Report. I did not clear the codes. I drove it the next day for 40 miles with the engine light on, everything normal. After restarting the drive home, the engine light was off, and has stayed off and is still off. I can now still pull just 1 code, P2112. I have not tried to erase it, in case I want to go to the dealer. The Ford Health Report I ran right after the event responded strongly to all the warnings that are in the owners manual for the engine light on. I ran a health report again after the engine light was off, and I got a clean bill of health. I am aware that there was an extended warranty of 10 years and 150K miles on this issue (NHTSA action number PE13003) and a Ford CSP (customer satisfaction program #13N03) on this vehicle, but it ended at the end of Jan. 2015. I have an appointment with my Ford Dealer tomorrow, but I am not eager to spend a lot of money on an issue that might have fixed itself. I can buy a new throttle body at Rockauto for $76 plus shipping. They are not hard to install. Any advice or comments are welcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 You can try cleaning it. I did this bought me more time eventually replaced it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 You might try some full throttle accelerations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 You can try cleaning it. I did this bought me more time eventually replaced it. When I took it off, it was clearly sticking. It's natural position when disconnected is like roughly 4 degrees from being closed. I could push it with my finger, and it would stick shut. After doing that about 4 times, it would not stick shut. There was spring pressure to open it to the 4 degree point. I am sure during it's functioning mode, it does go completely shut, and it was probably just sticking. So I am cleaning the black carbon layer off, mainly on the inside of the TB, and I will see if it works better now. I had 4 more events of the wrench, this morning and lose of power, which is just the early calibration being too careful. I pull over, turn the engine off, wait 30 seconds, restart, and the wrench is gone and the normal function is back. I think the recall 13N03 that ended in Jan. this year included a new calibration that would let you continue driving. I understand the TB drive motor with it's healthy gear ratio normally can break loose a stuck shut plate. There is also a throttle plate closed position adjustment screw that I could adjust to maybe a quarter of a degree open, which might avoid the stuck shut situation in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 You might try some full throttle accelerations. That didn't seem to help. With no fuel in that area, it doesn't flush the carbon out like it used to with carbs. But now that I have it off, I will just clean the carbon out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I don't think you should fiddle with the closed adjustment as a lot of precise things occur with the throttle plate during stopping and starting and that might interfere. If you can see deposits, cleaning them out will probably fix it. Are you doing it with a solvent or mechanically? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 I don't think you should fiddle with the closed adjustment as a lot of precise things occur with the throttle plate during stopping and starting and that might interfere. If you can see deposits, cleaning them out will probably fix it. Are you doing it with a solvent or mechanically? I cleaned it already. I used carb cleaner which dissolved the carbon layer, then I used my kerosene parts cleaner tub to finish the job, with steel wool and Popsicle sticks cut with square ends (saves fingernails and doesn't damage the aluminum). I did not adjust the closed position, I decided like you said, that it's a precision device, and while that worked on my old Explorer, I will just leave it alone. It seems to be better already, but I will find out tomorrow when I drive 40 miles round trip for a medical appointment. A YouTube by a Ford mechanic said there was another problem with the motor contacts, but they looked fine to me, like new. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Guilty of not reading all the posts in full.. Sorry the cleaning didn't work. Have u disconnected the battery to let it reset. (Unless hybrids r different) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Guilty of not reading all the posts in full.. Sorry the cleaning didn't work. Have u disconnected the battery to let it reset. (Unless hybrids r different) It may have worked, I haven't driven it yet. I need to go at least 10 miles to test it and I'm going 40 miles in the morning. I have 80% hope that it will work. Edited July 27, 2015 by VonoreTn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 NICE, Even a busted clock is right twice a day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 I am 95% confident that the wrench light and code P2112 (throttle body sticking shut) is fixed. I drove the same 40 miles today that I drove yesterday where I got 3 wrench lights and loss of power events, and I got nothing today, and the code P2112 has completely cleared for the first time in the last week and a half. The only thing I did was thoroughly clean the throttle body, which was coated with a hard approximately 1/2 a millimeter of carbon. Be sure to clean the edge of the throttle plate good also, as that is what sticks. So far I have not spent a penny on this fix, just some labor. It has a fairly heavy spring holding it a position about 4 degrees from shut, so blocking it open with a small cube of wood about 2 cm high is helpful. You do not have to take the gear/motor drive cover off as I did, I just wanted to check the motor contacts, which were fine. This is the first such cleaning at 112,900 miles, and 6 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Do you think it's possible to clean it with solvent ( sprays ) while running without removing it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Do you think it's possible to clean it with solvent ( sprays ) while running without removing it? No, the carbon was like baked on. Getting the throttle body off was like a 10 minute job. The hardest part for me was figuring out how to remove the wire connector, you have to pull the red tab up, but I had to also stick a small screw driver underneath the opposite end of the red tab on the connector and lift outward and it came off real easy. Yours might be easier. Kerosene or paint thinner wouldn't touch the carbon, it took several iterations of soak with carb cleaner and scrap with the square cut popsicle sticks. Plus a small piece of fine steel wool. Since the TB is aluminum and precise, you do not want to use any steel scrapers. Carb cleaner is very powerful, clean your hands frequently or wear gloves, don't get it on plastic or rubber parts. I would have rather had a little can of carb cleaner that I could have brushed on versus a spray, the spray tended to splash the area too much. The car is still running great, the mileage seems to be better, I got 46 mpg driving 20 miles yesterday, for some reason it seems to operate smoother on speed control. Edited July 29, 2015 by VonoreTn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Why is there carbon there? Does the EGR dump in upstream of it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Why is there carbon there? Does the EGR dump in upstream of it? The carbon is all on the downstream side of the throttle plate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 That must be from the Atkinson blowing charge back into the intake manifold. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is that how the engine runs high compression on regular gas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) No, that's a method of achieving a pseudo Atkinson cycle operation without the second crankshaft and articulated connecting rod. The intake valve is closed late in the compression stoke to make that stroke effectively shorter than the power stroke. Charge is blown back into the intake manifold. That's why the engine is so noisy under high power, they didn't sound proof the intake manifold enough. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle Edited July 30, 2015 by lolder 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbpete01 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 VonoreTn, Just curious if this fix is still working for you? I had the same problem recently on my 2010 FFH. I did what you did by removing and cleaning the TB engine side carbon with carb cleaner. I re-installed and DTC P2112 popped up within a few miles. Then I removed the TB and opened up the electronics side and cleaned the contacts with light emory cloth. Again, the P2112 code popped up within 10 miles. I've now ordered a new TB and will get it next week. After closer review of NHTSA PE13003, the issue is "ETB internal motor contacts may develop a high resistance material buildup condition on the commutator", so our attempts of cleaning will not help. I called Ford and unfortunately my VIN is not included in the CSP #13N03. I've filed a complaint with Ford and NHTSA over this issue. I hope Ford adds our FFH to the warranty since it uses the same TB. Thanks for your posting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 VonoreTn, Just curious if this fix is still working for you? Yes it is still working. When you had the TB off, and pushed the plate closed with your finger, did it pop back to about 4 degrees open? If not, you may have to clean the edge of the plate better. The motor and gear side of the TB looked like new, including the electrical contacts to the motor, on both sides. I added a small amount of grease to the gears. Notice the set screw on the lower left below, I did not touch that. It looks like it would set the closed position of the plate if tightened, but I figured if the computer wanted the TB plate closed, I would not tamper with that function. I'm guessing that your new TB will fix the problem whatever it is. It could be that tiny electronic board and chip that the motor connects to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 119,500 miles now, 6000 miles later, and still no codes occur. I carry an inexpensive OBD2 code reader in the car. I think that throttle body sticking code is fixed with the cleaning. My friend's 2002 Corvette, has an OBD2 code built into his original from the factory vehicle. The code and a message display above the steering wheel column, if there is ever a system failure. Obviously all cars could do this, but they probably don't because it would not be a marketing feature to sell cars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89sandman Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I guess it depends on who drives the car and where it is driven would make me decide on just cleaning the t/b or replacing it. For around $100 and less than a half an hour of time if it were my wife driving the car I would just change it since this car is known for this problem. Good to know if stuck in the middle of nowhere cleaning it might get you home! Edited October 26, 2015 by 89sandman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Sandman, I plan on cleaning mine every 70k miles from now on. I would put this repair in the same category, mess and time wise, as changing my own oil, which I never do anymore. But since to clean the TB I don't even have to get under the car, I rate it as an easier operation. I still have the original plugs, which based on the mileage, (running 42 mpg this tank), the current ones are still doing their job. But I bought 4 new ones, so I will be changing those when the rain stops. It will be much easier to do than changing them on any front wheel drive V6, and this car performs like a V6 due to the auxiliary electric motor thrust. I love this car and I will try to keep it running until I reach the distance to the moon (249,000 miles) Edited October 26, 2015 by VonoreTn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) When you change the plugs let us know if you have any trouble getting them out. Also check the gap compared to new ones. I wonder if starting with an impact socket or squirting a little Marvel mystery oil on them first would be appropriate. Plugs last so long there are sometimes problems getting them out of aluminum heads. Edited October 26, 2015 by lolder 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I'm now at 124k miles, no engine lights, and still getting good mileage. I changed the plugs at 121k miles . Lolder in the above post was right, it was not easy getting the spark plugs out. I had to soak the base of the plugs with CB blaster for an hour. We bought a C-Max for my Wife's car. She likes the auto opening rear tailgate door, keyless start, and the higher seats for comfort and for her back on long trips. It does not seem to get quite as good of mpg as the FFH. I haven't hit 40 mpg on a tank yet. But I will give it time. Edited February 1, 2016 by VonoreTn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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