aliciamt7 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hello everyone, I'm hoping to get some insight here and maybe you guys can help me. We have a 2011 Ford Fusion Hybrid and we had the check brake system light come on at start up. Initially it felt like we lost all brake pressure and would push the brake all the way to the ground but it did stop. Subsequently it would be fine but still have the light on. We took it in to the dealership where the brake light suddenly was off and they couldn't find anything wrong. They said our rear brakes were extremely worn and we needed new rotors (even at only 42k miles)--also told us our front brakes were absolutely fine. We had them completely replace the rear brakes and rotors, then it was fine for the past 4 months and now all of a sudden the check brake system light is back on with the same issue. Before we bring it back to the dealership again, I just wanted to research a little to see what the potential problem actually could be, I'm afraid they would just tell us the front brakes need to be done now even though we have barely driven the car (under 1000 mi since the rear brakes were replaced), and they would try to take us for a ride. Thanks for any insight! I know there was a recall on 2010-2011 hybrid models regarding a brake software issue, but affected owners were supposed to be notified back in 2012. Is it possible that is the problem here? Thank you!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes. Have the dealer check to see if the software update was done. The rear brake wear is probably a separate issue. Some owners have reported abnormal rear brake wear. There shouldn't be any. There may be a manufacturing defect involving the rear brakes that is unresolved. You apparently only have the light and don't know yet if the rear brakes are worn again. If they are worn again the dealer should find the cause on his nickel. Leaving the hand brake on yields a prominent light and warning chime so that's unlikely. The software update eliminates an over sensitivity of the brake malfunction monitor. It disables the computerized brake system when it senses a fault and the system reverts to conventional power mechanical braking. Unfortunately you have to push down 2 more inches on the pedal for this to occur and drivers think they have lost their brakes. See the dealer again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliciamt7 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Thank you for that information! The Check Brake System light is on and the car doesn't run on electric anymore (this happened the last time as well), it only runs the gas engine when this happens. Is that normal for that recall problem as well? Thank you for your help so far! Edited November 20, 2014 by aliciamt7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 ... We had them completely replace the rear brakes and rotors, then it was fine for the past 4 months and now all of a sudden the check brake system light is back on... Welcome to the forum, aliciamt7! Heading back to the dealership is a great next step. When you're ready to head in, send me a private message (PM) with your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, current mileage, and servicing dealership. I'll loop in your regional customer service manager so they can assist. Crystal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thank you for that information! The Check Brake System light is on and the car doesn't run on electric anymore (this happened the last time as well), it only runs the gas engine when this happens. Is that normal for that recall problem as well? Thank you for your help so far! No, not running in EV is not part of the brake problem. Did you run "Vehicle Health Report" and have you activated a dealer to receive it as described in the SYNC manual? The brake malfunction is recorded in a different part of the computer system than usual so dealers sometimes didn't know where to look for it. This was solved about 3-4 years ago but maybe your dealer never had to confront this issue and doesn't know about it. There is a normal condition where the car will not run in EV called HVB reconditioning which is normal and may occur about once a year. If reconditioning is unsuccessful a message will appear. It doesn't recondition twice in a row. There are more than half a dozen other reasons why it stays in EV including cold weather. Do you have all the Owners Guides and have you read them? Follow "Crystal's" advice above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliciamt7 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thank you to the both of you for the info! Iolder, the only time the car ran like this on the gas engine was during this "Check Brake System" issue, we've had the car since we bought it brand new in May 2011. So it was only this summer and now that this happened. During the summer the cold wasn't the issue, though right now I guess it could be, but we've had colder winters before and it was fine. I will definitely be bringing it in soon! Crystal, I will definitely be in touch within the next week, we want to get this resolved ASAP. Thank you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) The "Customer Satisfaction Program 10B 13" about the brake and powertrain software update was for cars built before mid-October 2009 so you should have the latest software. This could be any number of things and will require a trip to the dealer. Remind all the cars drivers that if the light comes on again ( and there should be a "chime" also ) that the brake pedal must be pushed FURTHER DOWN an inch or more for normal power braking. If that doesn't occur there may be a problem with the hydraulic brakes. You should fix this now. I just looked at my 2010's pads. They have no discernible wear front or rear at 69,000 miles. The car was built 5/11/09 and I put it into service 7/28/09. We have had owners with well over 100,000 miles report very little wear. I would venture to say that with proper hybrid driving they might go the life of the car. There have been a few reports of premature rear wear which must be some manufacturing or assembly defect. I would lean on them to eat that rear brake job cost. I can't imagine a driver driving with the emergency brake on in the presence of the bright warning light and loud chime but people are funny. Edited November 21, 2014 by lolder 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 ... Crystal, I will definitely be in touch within the next week, we want to get this resolved ASAP. Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for your message, aliciamt7! Crystal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreenboot Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) My wife drives a 2014 FF Hybrid and just at the 12000 mile mark the IP brake system indicator came on as well. In addition to that she has notice a difference in the braking. First time occurred just after the indicator came on. While driving around for her office, she was approaching cars stopped at a light (speed approximately 10-15 mph) and as she attempted to apply the brakes the vehicle wouldn't stop but just slowed slightly. She pressed down on the brakes hard but still only slowed, she let up on the pedal and pressed again and the brakes engaged like they normally do. She drove it another day with no improvement. So we took it to our dealer, who's personnel said that they didn't know why the indicator came on, hadn't heard of any issues like she described, but would take a look at it. I am very curious if anyone else has experienced this problem with the brakes. I look forward to any replies. Thank you Edited January 16, 2015 by thegreenboot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 This is mostly unheard of in the 2013+ model and rare after the above mentioned software update of the 2010's. You have had some sort of failure in the computerized brake system that the dealer needs to look at which should be covered by warranty. Now about your wife's experience. It probably didn't happen quite the way she remembered which is understandable. If there is a failure of the computers, the brake pedal has to be pushed down at least another inch when mechanical engagement of the power hydraulic brakes occurs. When the early models were having the glitch, numerous drivers including a Consumer Reports tester thought they had lost all braking. They didn't realize the pedal went easily down that much farther until braking occurred. If there wasn't a failure of the master cylinder or leak, that is what she experienced. It is unnerving. The 2010-12 Owners Guide merely says to "continue pressing on the pedal to stop". It doesn't warn that you have to push much "FURTHER DOWN" on the pedal. The dealer should be able to fix this. Give us feedback. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreenboot Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hello loder. Thanks for your follow up. Well here is some additional information that EVERYONE should be aware of. To reiterate, my wife was traveling down a local road (5 lanes) and speed limit 40 mph getting into the center left turn lane, there were three additional cars in front of her. She was probably doing about 15 mph at most and began to depress the brake pedal when she experienced what we subsequently learned is called a "hard stop/hard brake" - this is when the electronic brakes fail and the manual brakes take over. Luckily, she is a very cautious driver and not prone to quick stops. The car slowed and finally came to a halt without hitting the car in front of her after she depressed the brake twice. It is very probable that she did not depress really far down (as you stated above), not being aware of how the manual brakes are supposed to take over if the electronic brakes fail. But, obviously, it was very scary. She subsequently began to experience a low-grade clicking/grinding noise when she would have the brake pedal depressed after being at a complete stop. She took the car into the Ford dealership and they arranged for a loaner car for her. She has been told that the dealership had to order a new ABS module which should be in sometime next week. These are the highlights of the situation to date. We will keep the posts updated. She is going to raise a complaint on the National Highway and Safety Traffic Administration Website http://www.nhtsa.gov. The fear for her is what would cause such a failure so early in the life cycle of the car (12,000 miles). With what you describe above and in other postings, has Continental Automotive (Tier One manufacturer of these electronic braking systems supplied to Ford) really fixed the problem with their electronic braking modules?? My wife LOVES her Fusion Hybrid and has never loved a new car as much as this one; however, she is a bit petrified now of her car. Will this new module just be another defective piece of electronics?? What if she had been traveling at a greater speed? Failed braking systems of any extent is unacceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) These failures are uncommon and it is the first one I have heard of in the 2013+ model. I have not heard of any in the 2010-12 since the software update. The incidents were due to too sensitive a monitoring system and not due to a failure of the basic system. The monitoring system sensed a fault in the computer braking system and disabled it. I have written a letter to Ford about the inadequate language in the Owners Guide years ago without response. Write them another letter ! There is no loss of maximum braking capability with this failure. The clicking, grinding mat be something else. You can turn the car on in "P" and look under the dash at the brake system. The pedal arm moves up and down in a fork connected to the master cylinder. When the system is working normally, the fork moves up and down with the arm never touching the bottom of the fork as the master cylinder is being activated by an electric actuator. Turn the car off and the pedal arm contacts the bottom of the fork and mechanically pushes the master cylinder and you get full power disc braking. The pedal arm closing the normal clearance distance is what causes the sensation of loss of brakes which is very disconcerting. Edited January 19, 2015 by lolder 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 ...She took the car into the Ford dealership and they arranged for a loaner car for her. She has been told that the dealership had to order a new ABS module which should be in sometime next week... Welcome to the forum, thegreenboot. It sounds like you're in good hands at your dealership, but don't hesitate to contact me if you need any assistance. I'll hang around this thread to see when you hear any news from the dealer. Crystal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimtheRockstar Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) So this happened to me today after leaving the car at the bar over night (in 30degree weather). Get the dreaded ding, ding, ding. Check Brake System. 2 days ago, I could not turn on the Seat Heaters, and thought that was odd. After this, I assume, yet again, the 12V battery was weak (after the cold night) and that was causing spooky problems (since the last battery caused numeorus ghosts in the machine until it just flat died) So I had the battery tested at AutoZone, and they indicated it was a bad battery. Second battery in 92,000 miles, no other issues with the FFH. Head to my local Ford in Austin, Tx, get a battery. Install it, still have same problem. Turn key in run mode, or Start and leave in run mode.Check Brake System Flashes Engine light blinks 8 times after ~15 seconds Brakes operate as described above (mind you, I get it is strickly on non-electical mode, and only on hydraulic, but get you just have to put some guts into it and it will still stop, better than my 64 Chevy Pickup) No DTC's on my ELM327 So my options now are to blow off getting paid tomorrow and sit at the dealer most of the day.... Anything I should be aware of? First off I am going to ask them about "Customer Satisfaction Program 10B13 or TSB number 09-22-11 for vehicles built before October 17, 2009" As mine was built 05/09. Edited February 25, 2015 by TimtheRockstar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It shouldn't take all day to change the battery or to check if the other items were done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 ...Head to my local Ford in Austin, Tx, get a battery. Install it, still have same problem... I'll escalate this to your regional customer service manager, TimtheRockstar. Send me a private message (PM) with your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, current mileage, and servicing dealership; I'll take it from there. Crystal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimtheRockstar Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I got it there around 10am (I had an am appt), Have not heard anything yet at 5:19pm. They have a habit of calling at 5:45 before they close, as if anyone could get there in 15min. Service Writer said, "Check the Brake System for Codes" $89 bucks, or then "Check the other system for Codes" $129, if Brake system nets nothing, then I only pay the $129. I was thinking that I might need to just have it reset after the battery was installed (I bought from Ford and dropped in). The TSB was done, after much shagrin of me saying, just run the number to make sure it was done. It was....even though he had never heard of that type of number (figures). Ford Service (Crystal), I will PM you. Edited February 25, 2015 by TimtheRockstar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Was the "Customer Satisfaction 10 B 13" done? That's what causes the brake problems and that wasn't caused by the battery. Find another dealer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimtheRockstar Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Side note, I CHANGED THE BATTERY. Just bought it at the parts counter, because I can't wait all day to have them do it.... I did this last time the Battery Died, without issue, but I did not have a major system malfunction at/around the time the battery went bad....just dash anomalies. Car built 5/2009. 1st battery dies 10/2013, Parts refuses to honor ANY warranty on the Motorcraft Battery. "Can't verify when the battery was sold" Well for sure it is only as old as 5/2009 I buy a second battery. 2/23/2015 Second battery is diagnosed as bad. Service cannot find my invoice, as all over the counter sales are listed as 'cash customer'. I buy new battery, again. You know the issues from above. Old battery has 08/13 on a sticker on the side of the battery, so I AM DAMN SURE IT WAS SOLD AFTER 08/13. So I am going to take that up with the General Manager, as I have had it with the Parts Department. ....Last time I ripped them on parts, they quoted me MORE for a line item wheel bearing, than I had paid 3 days prior (I could not get it in right, so paid them to). He said, well sometimes there are price differences and you have to pay more when you buy it.... I said "I paid less across the counter, than you charged me when you performed the work. I have now paid for 2 bearings, one was $30 higher because you didn't know ** I ** knew the price because I just bought it 3 days ago... (I should have never attempted to put a front wheel bearing in.....since they only charged me a total of like $148 to do it.....) End of the rant... I just want the car back, as it has been flawless outside of 2 batteries, and 2 wheel bearings (one of which I ran into a curb) the other is the known FF front wheel bearing that they didn't tighten tight enough at the factory. Thanks for listening.....Love my 92,000 mile Fusion Hybrid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The factory battery is only covered for 3 yrs/36K. The second one should have come with a warranty based on the sticker date unless they specifically sold it without a warranty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimtheRockstar Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Was the "Customer Satisfaction 10 B 13" done? That's what causes the brake problems and that wasn't caused by the battery. Find another dealer. Yes....thought I mentioned that.... I asked him, he said, that's no number I heard of....and anyway we dont normally do a TSB unless the customer asks for it, or there is a specific reason to do it. To which I said "well this is the SPECIFIC reason" It was done by the previous owner, in Feb 2010, before I bought it.... Think I bought it in Feb 11, with 16k miles on it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimtheRockstar Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 It was a new battery, thus, it was surly NOT sold without warranty.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlcramer Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 This just happened to me but on a 2011! I have a fusion hybrid and it was scary. Almost hit a truck because the brakes were suddenly 'gone'. I pushed all the way down and still had brakes, but this is not ok. Like others have said- how is this not a recall? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 This just happened to me but on a 2011! I have a fusion hybrid and it was scary. Almost hit a truck because the brakes were suddenly 'gone'. I pushed all the way down and still had brakes, but this is not ok. Like others have said- how is this not a recall? You still had brakes so why would it be a recall? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 This just happened to me but on a 2011! I have a fusion hybrid and it was scary. Almost hit a truck because the brakes were suddenly 'gone'. I pushed all the way down and still had brakes, but this is not ok. Like others have said- how is this not a recall? If you have a 2011, I don't think that needed Customer Satisfaction 10B 13. It was for early 2010's, I believe. You may have had a different failure in the brake system which still causes a reversion to mechanical power brakes which requires pushing much farther down on the brake pedal. This behavior is mentioned in the Owner's Guide but that is misleading. It merely says continue pressing on the pedal, not that you have to push much farther than normal. It should have been a recall and the Owner's Guide should have been changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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