Rodrigo Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Hi all, I just purchased a K&N replacement air filter (33-2395) and although I'm quite satisfied with it, I am a bit worried about what I have read online about it screwing up MAF's and more importantly, not filtering enough dirt that may damage my engine. I don't expect any power gains for it as I bought it because it can be washed and reused. But if it would harm my engine, I would gladly go back to the stock paper filter. Any thoughts from folks who have used this product on their Fusions, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I used to put K&N filters in all my cars, but I stopped after it clogged up my MAF on my SVT Focus. Cleaned the MAF, put the stock filter back in and ran it for 9 more years with no troubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks for your input, Waldo! It seems a lot of folks (on other sites) have similar experience as you. I have decided that it is too much of a risk to keep it on, so I have returned it to the store. I'll be going back to stock filters, like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yeah, K&N is an honest company. Their filters promote better airflow, although your horsepower gains will likely be negligible. They advertise the crap outta the fact that their filters provide more airflow, and it is a significant difference. *HOWEVER* you may notice they completely ignore any mention of ISO ratings. ISO ratings are the benchmarks used to test hundreds of different types of filters (oil, trans, hyrdraulic, air, etc), and they are the specifications companies, like Ford, use to determine which filters are OEM approved to keep the right amount of contamination from circulating. This is the part that scares me from using K&N air filters. Do they allow better flow? Almost definitely. Will they filter out particles of the same micron rating that your OE filter will? I sincerely doubt it if they let that much more air through. Sure you can argue that the oil is supposed to trap the particles that would otherwise get through, but if that were the case why wouldn't K&N advertise it? It seems quite obvious to me, that K&N doesn't filter as well as your standard paper filter. At the end of the day, you have to realize that your filter is there for a reason, to protect your engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Most sensible breakdown I've heard. Thanks Duratorq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Anytime, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetty Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozz Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Properly oiled they do not cause any problems. I've run them for 12 years same vehicle and never used "any" oil between changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 ^ Agreed last car ran a CAI where the filter was located in the bumper in front of the tire. Never once had any issue drove the car that way for 8 years engine was still running smooth when i traded her in. I guarantee the filter was in a place where it was exposed to more particulates than our stock aribox ever is. #Paranoidmuch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome11 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I know people have had problems with K&N air filters but if they are used right they are a good filter. I have used them on all my vehicles since the mid 80s. The harshest use was on two different Ford Rangers. The first was an 89 STX Ranger that was used off-road in the dusty desert a lot, towed my race car and was my daily driver. It had almost 200,000 miles on it when I sold it to a co-worker and it has over 250,000 miles on it now. It never used more than it did when it was new. It still runs very well. My current 2002 FX4 Ranger has over 186,000 miles on it and is still running strong. I plan to run it to at least 300,000 miles and if I didn't trust using K&N air filters I certainly wouldn't be using them. I have never seen any indication of passing more dirt than a paper filters and if it does it certainly doesn't hurt the engine. I have had my oil analyzed to determine if there is any evidence of dirt getting through the air filter and nothing out of the ordinary was detected. I have never had a problem with contamination of the MAF either. I am careful not to over oil the K&N filter after I clean it and I do clean the MAF about every three years to be safe. I didn't start using the K&N air filters because I thought they would provide more power. I just like the idea of being able to reuse them. I also like being able to go 50,000 miles between cleaning. I have 4 vehicles including my race car and anything I can do to reduce maintenance sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I'm sure people have had no issues with K&N filters, I had one for over 100k miles on my Taurus and the transmission went, not the engine (although she was using a quart between changes... but I doubt that was due to the air filter). I don't think it will significantly harm your engine to run a K&N, but if they did filter air as well as an OE filter, don't you think K&N would have mentioned that? All I read is that they provide better airflow, and that they are re-usable. I am genuinely curious to see how they would stack up on an ISO benchmark test. Edited August 24, 2015 by DuratorqSupporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniylo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) I also have a K&n filter and have no complaints so far. Decided to replace the stock one because I got the k&n for cheap at 4 wheel online before, and I like the fact that this filter is reusable. Edited August 27, 2015 by daniylo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) That still doesn't change the fact that it is an inferior filter, when you use cheap oil filters, you probably don't notice a difference in engine durability but most people will acknowledge that it isn't always a great idea to use them. K&N is the same, it flows more but they never claim it filters better and that is the whole point of having an air filter in the first place. I mean hell, if you want reusable just run around without a filter on, it'll flow better than your K&N.... Edited August 29, 2015 by DuratorqSupporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Cause Ford uses the highest grade filters? It's an air filter, man usually these arguments are about this oil vs that oil or what gas should I use. Whether it's k&n or an OEM filter as long as you follow the manufacturers maintenance guideline you will be more than fine. Do you use motorcraft brand windshield washer fluid to because Ford says so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Cause Ford uses the highest grade filters? It's an air filter, man usually these arguments are about this oil vs that oil or what gas should I use. Whether it's k&n or an OEM filter as long as you follow the manufacturers maintenance guideline you will be more than fine. Do you use motorcraft brand windshield washer fluid to because Ford says so? You misunderstand, I do not use exclusively Motorcraft parts on my Fusion, nor do I plan to. However, I will be buying parts that meet the Motorcraft requirements I assumed that was a common sense understanding. Look if you want to use a K&N then go ahead, I'm not losing hair over it, all I pointed out was that they don't filter to the spec Ford has listed, otherwise K&N would be an OE filter. The reason I go off of Ford's specs is because they have a more intimate knowledge of their engine than any other company on the planet, they build the damn things, they probably have an engineer somewhere who can rattle off 90% of the specs of the engine. So, using Ford's specifications for filters, fluid viscosities, gaskets, etc seems like a no-brainer to me. I don't care if the box says Motorcraft on it, I just care that it does as good of a job as the Motorcraft part and that there has been lab testing to support those claims (K&N doesn't). Then again, if your convinced your K&N does a better job filtering, you can go ahead and save money by changing your brake system back over to DOT 2 fluid. Edited August 30, 2015 by DuratorqSupporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I don't use k&n currently or do I plan on it, used it on a previous car because the CAI kit came with it. Ran it for years and in all reality didn't maintain it properly. traded car in with over 150k the one thing the car didn't have problems was the engine. I am merely saying your being a bit over the top with the difference in longevity a k&N filter will make to the cars life. I'm not saying they are better or worse but your fear mongering of k&n is a bit excessive. It's a filter.... I highly doubt they would be one of the leaders in after market air filters if their product was so inferior. Edited August 30, 2015 by indifferent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I made no claims that a K&N air filter would make a significant difference on the life of the engine, as I have no statistics to back a claim up. All I'm saying is that it will damage your engine more than a standard filter, and I don't think its worth a 2hp gain at the top of your horsepower curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome11 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Making a statement like "it will damage your engine more than a standard filter" is just an opinion without proof. I have run two engines to near 200K miles with no oil related wear problems. I also had oil analysis conducted to check for wear particulates and air filter contamination. All were within normal parameters. This is not 100% proof that K&N filters are as good as standard oil filter but it is pretty convincing evidence to me. I will know better when I hit 300K miles with my current Ranger. I just spent 9 days in the desert off-road behind 5 other vehicles in the deserts of Utah with my Ranger (very dusty). I am sure it will need cleaning but I will check the intake tube after the filter and I will most likely detect no contamination on the white cloth wipe as I have in the past. Edited September 11, 2015 by Monochrome11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Yeah your car is more likely to get damaged from a moving company than k&n filter. http://www.fordfusionforum.com/topic/14265-shipping-damage/ Edited September 11, 2015 by indifferent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozz Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 More K&N haters, most of these bad talkers have never even used one! Look up oil bath air filter and be surprised Ford use to use them on there cars and trucks. Once again, properly oiled they cause no problems, example to the haters, read the instructions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) More K&N haters, most of these bad talkers have never even used one! Look up oil bath air filter and be surprised Ford use to use them on there cars and trucks. Once again, properly oiled they cause no problems, example to the haters, read the instructions! I had a K&N on my last car, I'm not saying that they will cause significant damage, all I have pointed out is that K&N makes no claims about the filtering properties of their filters, because no where does it claim that they do a better job of filtering air, just that they supply more airflow. You can all do the math, if it doesn't advertise superior filtering, that means that more (or at least the same) amount of particulate matter is making it past the filter, when compared to an OE paper filter. As I pointed out, I have used K&N filters and honestly don't see the point in putting my engine in even a sight amount of greater harm, just to gain a few horses in a part of my rpm band that I rarely use. Either way, if your running around with a K&N filter on a naturally aspirated engine using a stock ecm you will likely not even be able to get a measurable difference of power out of your engine. I'm presenting facts here, they do not advertise a superior filtering capacity, and they do not advertise a similar filtering capacity to an OE filter, all they claim is more airflow. Making a statement like "it will damage your engine more than a standard filter" is just an opinion without proof. I have run two engines to near 200K miles with no oil related wear problems. I also had oil analysis conducted to check for wear particulates and air filter contamination. All were within normal parameters. This is not 100% proof that K&N filters are as good as standard oil filter but it is pretty convincing evidence to me. I will know better when I hit 300K miles with my current Ranger. I just spent 9 days in the desert off-road behind 5 other vehicles in the deserts of Utah with my Ranger (very dusty). I am sure it will need cleaning but I will check the intake tube after the filter and I will most likely detect no contamination on the white cloth wipe as I have in the past. We an all agree that manufacturers put an air filter on for a reason, right? I mean they use filters in general for a reason, right? So if a filter doesn't filter to a specific micron rating as well as another, the damage may seem negligible, but there will still be damage. Fact is, I just finished a diesel tech program for Caterpillar, and they were absolutely nuts about contamination control and filters and micron ratings, after learning what I learned there, I will not use a K&N on any engine of mine, *UNTIL* K&N advertises how their filters do in an ISO benchmark test compared to other filters. So to put these anecdotal evidence sympathizers to rest, here is evidence of an independent test preformed between Napa Gold, a Mazda stock airfilter, a K&N air filter, a Baldwin, and a Racing beat. The majority of these filters use foam, and are considered aftermarket 'performance' filters. Here are your results, although some of you knuckle draggers may have a hard time wrapping your head around this, let alone reading it. Spark notes version: While the K&N does flow slightly better, it doesn't filter as well as a stock filter. The author, who has a degree in mechanical engineering also points out that K&N has claims that K&N filters filter within 99% of the capacity of a stock filter, and even he questions whether or not the 1% is worth adding 2 horsepower in part of the rpm band that most vehicles rarely see. Especially considering that the flow rate between a K&N filter and stock isn't that much of a difference. Edited September 14, 2015 by DuratorqSupporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome11 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) If you believe only what is advertised, you may someday be in for a big surprise. I am an Aerospace engineer and know the value of testing. It is very difficult to set up a test for real world results. Tests are typically a screening tool. I have seen the top performer in a test fail terribly a real world application. Besides, there is nothing in that test report that states K&N filters will damage an engine more than standard filter as you are stating. It only states that K&N filters have poorer filtration than some paper filters. I have experience with two vehicles at near 200K miles with K&N filters in severe use applications that show no signs of wear due to poor air filtration. This is the real world. If you don't want to use K&N filters, that is your choice. However, telling people that a K&N filter will damage your engine more than a standard filter has as much credibility as typical advertising. Even if K&N filters did cause more wear than a specific standard paper filter, I believe it is so minimal that many other things would fail long before any problems due to the K&N filter passing contamination. As to being a knuckle dragger, my arms are not that long. What makes you think long arms or posture has any effect on mental capacity anyway? I forgot to mention that I did clean the K&N filter in my Ranger after being in the extremely dusty conditions for a long time. It was so full of dust that I could barely see the pleats in the filter. I did wipe the interior of the intake tube after the filter with a white cloth and got no evidence of contamination getting through the filter. I was surprised the engine would still run with that much dust on the filter. Edited September 15, 2015 by Monochrome11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuratorqSupporter Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 If you believe only what is advertised, you may someday be in for a big surprise. I am an Aerospace engineer and know the value of testing. It is very difficult to set up a test for real world results. Tests are typically a screening tool. I have seen the top performer in a test fail terribly a real world application. Besides, there is nothing in that test report that states K&N filters will damage an engine more than standard filter as you are stating. It only states that K&N filters have poorer filtration than some paper filters. I have experience with two vehicles at near 200K miles with K&N filters in severe use applications that show no signs of wear due to poor air filtration. This is the real world. If you don't want to use K&N filters, that is your choice. However, telling people that a K&N filter will damage your engine more than a standard filter has as much credibility as typical advertising. Even if K&N filters did cause more wear than a specific standard paper filter, I believe it is so minimal that many other things would fail long before any problems due to the K&N filter passing contamination. As to being a knuckle dragger, my arms are not that long. What makes you think long arms or posture has any effect on mental capacity anyway? I forgot to mention that I did clean the K&N filter in my Ranger after being in the extremely dusty conditions for a long time. It was so full of dust that I could barely see the pleats in the filter. I did wipe the interior of the intake tube after the filter with a white cloth and got no evidence of contamination getting through the filter. I was surprised the engine would still run with that much dust on the filter. The knuckledragger reference was not so much pointed as you as the Indifferent and Mozz, I apologize for catching you in the crossfire but neither of them has brought any real argument to the table and have only sought to belittle me in their posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indifferent Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yeah i'm done, u perceive me as belittling you but the only person flinging middle school names around is you. This is well beyond. a pointless thread/ Numerous ppl have said they have NEVER had an issue with K&N causing damage to the engine. Not one person has posted that K&N damaged the engine, shoot no one has even posted they think it played a roll in hurting the longevity of the engine. Absolutely K&N allows for greater air flow thus inevitably more particulate will get through the filter. Negligible. Congradts on moving the the upper mid-west.Most people will acknowledge that winters are tough on cars. Further more the salt and salt substitute products they use up here on the roads to keep them ice free will speed up the degradation of your vehicles frame and other exposed metal, this is a risk you are surely not willing to take since the idea of using a k&n filter gives you an anxiety attack.. Have fun walking to the bus stop in the winter. regards, "Knuckldragger" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 And we're done here. Keep it civil folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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