Ford RAV Situation

[jaudio23]

Hi All,

 

Here's my story:

 

• Leased a brand new 2016 Ford Fusion Energi SE. Lease agreement started on February 29th, 2016.
• Started noticing a moldy smell inside the cabin. The smell even lingered on my clothes after getting out of the car.
• On March 29th, noticed excessive moisture coming up from underneath the carpeting.
• On March 30th, brought the car into the local Ford service center.
• Service center conducted a few tests to find the source of a possible leak. Could not find anything.
• Service center provided a loaner vehicle on/around April 4th.
• Service center brought in an engineer from Ford to run some more tests. Still couldn't find anything.
• Service center received authorization from Ford Motor Company to replace carpeting and molding inside the car. At this point, it's been approx. 3 weeks since I brought the car in (week of April 18th).
• Later that week, I called Ford Motor Company and expressed my opinion about their solution. If they replace the interior but still can't find a leak, we'll probably have the same issue a month later with the new interior.
• I reach out to Ford the following week (now the end of April), Ford advises they will review the case and get back to me within 7-10 days. They have to internally discuss whether it's better to proceed with the original solution or to buy the car back from me.
• After another week, Ford Motor Company agrees to buy my car back (first week of May, approximately)
• Service center and Ford Motor Company exchange information and misc. paperwork over the course of a few days.
• Ford Motor Company confirms the refund of my last monthly payment, since I was without my car for over a month at this point.
• Received paperwork from Ford Reacquired Vehicle Headquarters on Friday, May 13th. Contains a contract that states the following:
  • I'm entitled to any new Ford/Lincoln of equal or greater value.
  • I am responsible for any difference in cost between the MSRP of the old car vs. the MSRP of the new one.
  • I'm responsible for any applicable mileage/usage charges that may apply (obviously, this doesn't apply because the car was only a month old before I brought it back to the service center)
  • I'm responsible for tax on the vehicle upgrade amount, transfer fees, license fees, and other state-mandated fees.
• As of today, I'm trying to contact Ford RAV to clarify the definition of a transfer fee, license fee, and other state-mandated fees. I have 14 days to respond, or else the offer will expire. The contract is dated May 12th, so I have until May 26th to get back to them.

 

With all that said, do you think I should be responsible for any extra fees incurred due to a buyback/vehicle exchange? Why should I have to pay any "transfer fees", "license fees", or any "other state-mandated fees"? If my brand new car didn't smell like mold, I wouldn't have any of these extra costs. Shouldn't Ford be responsible for those?

 

Also, if I decline the replacement offer, am I entitled to a full refund? I'm not contractually obligated until I sign this contract, so I'm definitely considering other brands before I make a decision.

 

Looking forward to any feedback.

 

 

Thanks,

 

- Jordan

[zip89105]

You won't get out of the state fees unless there is a lemon law clause allowing it. The problem is, the car wasn't declared a lemon, but was a buyback without invoking the lemon law. While waiting to hear from Ford you might want to check out the lemon law, if any, in your state.

 

Judging from the highlighted portion of your post, I suspect your responsibility will only be licensing and title fees. The DMV might even have a refund process for your buyback vehicle, but you'll have to check that out too. Personally, I'd take the buyback instead of trying to lemon law the vehicle so as not to delay things or incur any more expense than necessary, but I can afford to do so, some folks cannot. Good luck, and let us know the outcome.

[akirby]

I agree. This is the best case scenario.

[jaudio23]

You won't get out of the state fees unless there is a lemon law clause allowing it. The problem is, the car wasn't declared a lemon, but was a buyback without invoking the lemon law. While waiting to hear from Ford you might want to check out the lemon law, if any, in your state.

 

Judging from the highlighted portion of your post, I suspect your responsibility will only be licensing and title fees. The DMV might even have a refund process for your buyback vehicle, but you'll have to check that out too. Personally, I'd take the buyback instead of trying to lemon law the vehicle so as not to delay things or incur any more expense than necessary, but I can afford to do so, some folks cannot. Good luck, and let us know the outcome.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I live in NY, so the lemon law states the following:

 

"If your car is out of service to repair a problem for a total of thirty days during the warranty period, then you may be entitled to either a comparable car or a refund of your purchase price, plus license and registration fees, minus a mileage allowance only if the vehicle has been driven more than 12,000 miles."

 

So, obviously the car has been out of commission for over 30 days at this point. One option is a comparable car, but the other option is a full refund including any license/registration fees I already paid. It doesn't mention any additional license/registration fees incurred if I choose a comparable car.

 

Would it be out of the question to ask Ford to issue a credit to cover these extra fees?

[akirby]

You can ask but these things are typically pretty cut and dried by the mfr. My guess is it's the same process that they use for lemon law swaps. But it never hurts to ask.

[jaudio23]

You can ask but these things are typically pretty cut and dried by the mfr. My guess is it's the same process that they use for lemon law swaps. But it never hurts to ask.

 

 

Well, I asked. Not sure if I agree with the answer, but it is what it is.

 

Basically, Ford RAV is giving me 2 options:

 

1. Accept the replacement offer and pay the license/transfer fees. Ford has no control over state-mandated fees, so they can't be held responsible for crediting me those amounts, even though the entire reason I have to pay the license/transfer fee is because Ford sold me a car with obvious issues.
2. Decline the replacement offer and ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY FORD $6K. According to Ford RAV, usually the owner/lessee is entitled to a full refund if the replacement offer is declined, but because I took a rebate for approx. $9k when I leased the car, any refund is completely negated, and I would actually owe Ford around $6k in the end (I've only had the car for 1 month, and only put around $3k towards the lease between my down payment and monthly payments to date).

 

However, the NY lemon law does not mention anything about rebates being deducted from my refund. The exact wording from the NY New Car Lemon Law Bill of Rights is as follows:

 

(4) If the same problem cannot be repaired after four or more attempts; or if your car is out of service to repair the problem for a total of 30 days during the warranty period; or if the manufacturer or its agent refuses to repair the substantial defect or condition within 20 days of receipt of notice sent by receipt requested; then you may be entitled to either a comparable car or a refund of your purchase price, plus license and registration fees, minus a mileage allowance only if the vehicle has been driven more than 12,000 miles. Special notification requirements may apply to motor homes.

 

THAT'S IT. No mention of any rebates being deducted from my refund.

 

With that said, does Ford RAV actually have the right to charge me anything if I choose to decline the replacement offer?

[zip89105]

This is where consulting an lemon law attorney might help. However, we're talking a voluntary manufacturer buyback as the state lemon law hasn't been used to initiate the buyback. Since your vehicle is a lease the license and registration fees are built into the payment, at least that's how my lease was set up years ago. Subsequent yearly registration renewal is on you. I would take the buyback offer and go find yourself another Energi or similar, otherwise you may find yourself tied up with a payment while you pursue the lemon law route.

 

The bottom line is it hurts financially, but I see it as the lesser of two evils unless you're absolutely done with Ford and wish to take your business elsewhere by using the lemon law for a refund, minus any exceptions. Remember, the state put the words 'may' into their wording, so while you 'may' win, things 'may' not go your way.

 

If it was me I'd be picking out another Energi. The new fees will be built into the new lease. The only difference is the rebates might be different as they vary month to month, but the old contract should be history. I don't think Ford would keep the same contract terms, but you never know!

Edited May 17, 2016 by zip89105

[jaudio23]

Ok, now this is getting a little absurd.

I accepted the replacement offer, signed and sent the contract back to Ford RAV last week, and asked the dealership to find a Fusion of equal value. I know I'm entitled to anything of greater value, but according to the dealership, they can't accommodate any upgrades for me. Not even a heated steering wheel for $100. With that said, I'm not looking to pay any more than the $65 registration transfer fee. I can't afford to pay anything more right now.

The dealership still hasn't confirmed if they found a Fusion of equal value. When I spoke to the manager last week, he was still waiting for another dealership in the area to get confirmation. I left him a message this past Monday, and I still haven't gotten a response. Today is May 26th, so in a couple days it'll be 2 full months without my Fusion.

Ford already refunded me for the first month I was without the car, so you'd think they'd have no problem refunding me for the second month, right?

WRONG.

I spoke to the customer service representative and explained my point. At first she simply said "no", then when I stated my case, she told me it's out of her hands at this point. The case was passed to Ford RAV, so it's "not up to her to make that decision anymore." She suggested I contact Ford RAV, so I did.

Here's Ford RAV's response:

"Per our phone conversation today, we do not address reimbursement of car payments and we are waiting on the invoice from the dealer to start the worksheet process, thank you."

This is probably the most frustrating experience I've ever had with a company.

Does anyone have any advice? I've been told I need to start looking for a lawyer...

Edited May 27, 2016 by jaudio23

[zip89105]

You might want to search for yourself as your dealer appears to be stonewalling. I'd give the state attorney general's office a call and present your case to see what options you may have. You don't need to file a complaint, but the AG may have a division specifically for issues like yours and might be able to answer your questions. Also, some local television stations have consumer complaint specialists and your dealer could be the star of the show when the tv station investigates. Good luck.

[Monochrome11]

Contacting a regulating or legal agency can be very useful. I was having a problem with AT&T about returning some of their equipment and wanted to charge me for it. It was a mix up in their system but me repeatedly contacting them and providing proof that I returned it would not resolve the problem. I kept being harassed by AT&T. I contacted FCC and filed a complaint. In less than two days the issue was miraculously resolved.

 

I can't recommend an agency to contact in your case but some of the suggestion made before sound like a good start.