savngas Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 2010 FFH, 150k miles Daughter reported loss of brakes, fault lights. I am assuming the hydraulic brakes were working as she safely found her way home. Any comment or experience with this type of situation would be appreciated. Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan_OH Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Loss of brakes? While driving? Sounds scary. I recently got in My '10 MMH one morning to find a brake fault, TPMS light, maybe others. Remote locks wouldn't open, could start car, but brake pedal was firm (hydraulic only I suppose), couldn't engage brakes, couldn't shift into drive. Disconnect / reconnect battery to "reboot" the car. All working, however, I replaced the 12V battery ASAP, no issues since. $119 from local Ford dealer. Original battery had 110K miles / 7yrs. It seems a marginal battery manifests itself in this type of strange behavior. Remember, you're basically driving a computer. One glitch and divide by zero...... Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Even if you lose the hybrid braking you still have hydraulic brakes you just have to push very hard on the pedal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) No problem when parked last night... Now lots of lights, little wrench, big wrench, service stability, service brakes, abs, etc.. car starts and runs OK Second battery...probably three years old. I'll try reboot before dealer Hydraulic brakes do work just have to stand on them like 54 Pontiac! Thanks HE Edited June 28, 2016 by savngas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Change the battery again first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 My daughter dropped the car at dealer. Dealer said they had no one that was familiar with hybrid system. Went to dealer to pick car up before they took it in. After sitting at the dealer two days started the car up and faults were clear, drove home...all OK I replaced the battery after I drove home and drove two days before the faults came back. May have to look for another dealer although few and far between where we live. I have the workshop manual for this car...would be nice if I could pull DTC codes...might fix myself. Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) You can enter an "Engineering Test Mode" , ( ETM ), by holding both the "Reset" and "Set-Up" buttons on the steering wheel for five seconds while you turn the car on. It appears in the right hand side of the instrument panel. There are 10 pages accessed sequentially by pressing the "Reset" button. The last one displays DTCs. This is a very complicated car and you really should find a Ford dealer who can work on it. Ford has sold almost half a million hybrids and I find it odd the dealer doesn't have anyone trained on it. ETM can be exited by turning car off or holding "Reset" for two seconds. Edited July 5, 2016 by lolder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogo88 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Had a CEL in May. Took it into the dealer and they replaced a vent valve and solenoid. About three weeks later get the same CEL.I know CEL and evap issues can be hard to diagnose. Took it back to the dealer and they said they checked it and could not find anything wrong. They asked to keep it overnight and proceeded to contact FORD tech support. Seems FORD Tech support gave them another test to do and it failed. So they replaced another part. Running fine now. So I would expect all dealers to be able to contact FORD Tech support for help on problems they can't figure out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Did the engineering test mode view...No current or historical DTCs indicated. Actually car is working good now, no faults but confidence is low. Not sure what to do other than drive it with caution. Might find a dealer in neighboring city but if clear DTC history is correct not much chance of a fix. Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Apparently not all the DTC codes are displayed on this screen. We have heard that there are other places where fault codes can be stored. In the early days of this car 7 years ago even some dealers didn't now how or where to look. They still might not as the 2010-12s have been reliable cars without many problems. Only about 70,000 of them were built in the three model years including the Lincolns and Mercs. They're all the same car and different from the Escape hybrids that preceded them and the 2013+s that succeeded them. Individual dealers may have little experience with them and they need to be prodded to go up the chain in the Ford Mo. Co. to resolve issues. Oddly enough, the 12 vdc battery seems to cause the most problems. The cars sat on lots and on delivery vehicles for months sometimes when new and the batteries were stressed and never really recovered after being recharged. Replacing the original 12 v battery fixed most problems. You can expect several years or more from the replacements. Only Ford makes the battery and at about $120, replacing it is always the cheapest first attempt at repair of an out of warranty car before you take it to a dealer. The car is very finicky about wanting an almost perfect 12 v battery. I'm an electrical engineer and have been dealing with all kinds of batteries all my life and it's a bit of a mystery to me. These cars use several data buses and digital transfer protocols to enable the dozens of computers to talk to each other and apparently need a very stable 12 vdc system. If I owned one of these cars in a third world country, I'd always travel with a charged, spare 12 v battery in the trunk. Edited July 8, 2016 by lolder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 I am also an electrical engineer. I work with automation systems, solid state drives, etc. This is one reason I was drawn to the FFH...This car has 150k on it now and the only thing I have done is change the LV battery (also a mystery). I have a background in automotive electrical systems and troubleshooting but without DTCs I have no direction. I do plan to reengage the dealer at a higher level...he has the scan tools I need. :-) Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Don't know how much support Forscan Lite has for the Ford hybrids, but for 5$, might be worth a try. It should bring up the various modules the car has, and any codes each might have set. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Ill check into it... To date car is OK...maybe battery swap did the trick. With brake issue it takes a while to build confidence in the repair...especially not knowing the exact cause. Thanks Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Forscan Lite looks pretty good...with WiFi for IOS. Need to buy WiFi adapter - $80 on Amazon Anyone have experience with this configuration? Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Kiwi/PLX might have something in WiFi, but I have used the v.Gate WiFi adapter with reasonable confidence. Not the speediest, but fairly reliable. Probably won't last as long as the OBDLink/Scantool series (I use Bluetooth and got 4+ years on it so far; don't buy their WiFi), but may extend service life by unplugging when done. I tend to leave the adapter connected the whole time ... I see people claiming the Kiwi Bluetooth works with their iPhones, not sure how, but you can take a look here https://www.amazon.com/PLX-Devices-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Android/dp/B016X3L0O2/ Edited July 12, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I don't see in this thread that I mentioned "Customer Satisfaction 10B-13". It was a software update for the brakes of early 2010 FFH's. If it happens again check to see if that was done. It was free at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Here's the basics: http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=169343 Customer Satisfaction Program 10B13_CERTAIN 2010 MODEL YEAR FUSION AND MILAN HYBRID VEHICLES - PCM AND ABS MODULE REPROGRAMMING.pdf Edited July 13, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 I do remember this and I think this was done early on...any way to check by VIN if done? HE 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 owner.ford.com? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueford Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 You can enter an "Engineering Test Mode" , ( ETM ), by holding both the "Reset" and "Set-Up" buttons on the steering wheel for five seconds while you turn the car on. It appears in the right hand side of the instrument panel. There are 10 pages accessed sequentially by pressing the "Reset" button. The last one displays DTCs. This is a very complicated car and you really should find a Ford dealer who can work on it. Ford has sold almost half a million hybrids and I find it odd the dealer doesn't have anyone trained on it. ETM can be exited by turning car off or holding "Reset" for two seconds. Can anyone tell me the minimum software version that resolved this brake issue. Mine shows the following.VIP sw 13.03.000 GIP we 13.03.000 Eeprom we 06.89 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I don't think so. My car was built 5/11/09 and the VIP is 13.04.000 and GIP is 13.03.000. You need to check with Ford by VIN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueford Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Thanks. Checked with ford and my vehicle is not qualified for the customer service software upgrade. I guess I'll have to follow their recommendation and replace the Brake pedal assembly. Hopefully that resolved the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savngas Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Checked with Ford also...also not affected by this upgrade. No problems since LV battery change. I did have along discussion with the local dealer service manager. He explained that they did not have a "certified" technician for hybrids but did have confidence in their capability to follow the workshop manual procedures indicated by DTC codes. Also they have factory backup for service related information and assistance. Hopefully wont need it... Harry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I gather you haven't replaced the brake pedal assembly. Don't unless there's more information if it happens again. The fact that you got other alarms also points to the 12 vdc battery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueford Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Swapped out the battery with a new one, issue still exists. Hoping that would have resolved it. Attached the Ford techs diagnostic notes of anyone is interested in reading it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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