driver's side cool, passenger side warm, air flow good

[dcw1]

I have a 2010 Ford Fusion and the a/c is acting up. I know there are a lot of threads and comments about this issue but none seem to address my specific problem.

I have a dual zone or climate system. Driver and passenger each have their own control knob for heat and a/c.

I am only going to refer to the main vents along the front of the dashboard. Basically there are 4 -- each side has one way over by the window (left and right) and then the 2 in the middle are side by side right above the radio.

 

No unusual noises or odors coming from a/c unit or car or vents.

All four vents blow air at the same speed and strength. Adjusting the fan speed up and down properly adjusts the air flow fine in all vents.

But when the a/c is on, only the two vents on the driver’s side seem to blow cooler air. I say cooler because the air coming out if not frigid. I don't have a thermometer but if I had to guess I would say it is in the low- to mid-70s. It cools the car off but slowly. And when you have latent heat built up in the dashboard/seats/windows from the sun, it takes quite a while.

On the other hand, the air coming out of the two vents on the right (passenger side), are noticeably warmer. In fact I would say almost warm. It is most likely the same temperature as the cabin. Air "flow" on passenger side is fine. But the actual temperature is higher than the two vents on the driver's side.

So I basically shut the passenger vents off with the louvers to get the car cooled. I would say over time, the air coming out of the one passenger vent in the center does start to slightly cool down a little more. But it never seems to get down to the mid-70s level coming out of the left vents.

Finally, if I am sitting in traffic on a hot day, the cooler air coming out of the driver's side starts to warm up. When I start moving again, it cools down but again only to the mid-70s. In this Atlanta summer weather, it makes for very warm rides home if traffic is thick. If the car is moving, its bearable after some of the latent heat starts to dissipate and the dash cools off to "hot" as opposed to "scalding". Sitting and not moving, I might as well have the windows open.

So, I have seen all kinds of suggestions from low refrigerant to stuck actuators. Given what I have described above, what would be the order of repairs that you would try. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and if I spend $50 and a few hours fixing an actuator that isn't broken I am ok with that. As long as there is a possibility that such a repair would work. I just want to know where to start or is what I am describing impossible to reach given my skill level and time that I should just take the vehicle in.

 

In a nutshell:

driver's side vent air is cool (not cold);

passenger side vent air is warm (probably temperature of vehicle cabin);

air flow is fine, (but sitting in traffic makes even driver's side warmer until moving again).

 

Any help, suggestions or comments are appreciated. Thx.

 

Regards, DAVE

Edited July 21, 2016 by dcw1

[eGuru]

If you pull down the glove box, you will be able to access the passenger blend door actuator.

Sit in the passenger seat, put right hand on the actuator shaft and adjust the passenger temp setting up and down.

You should be able to feel the actuator shaft move.

[dcw1]

What will that tell me?

 

Also I tested the temperature controls for both sides and they seem to work.

[akirby]

It will tell you if the actuator is bad.

Edited July 22, 2016 by akirby

[dcw1]

I read that it could be just low on refrigerant. If refrigerant is low, only part of the evaporator coils get cold and the air going over the cold coils is directed to the driver's side. The air circulating over the warmer coils gets directed to the passenger side. Does this sound plausible?

[eGuru]

Low refrigerant usually causes the evaporator coils to freeze up. This would reduce the air flow. Usually you will detect the cycling flow rate as the coils freeze and thaw.

Low compressor output or bad/blocked expansion valve could be your issue.

Due to the physical configuration of the coils, the airflow going to the drivers side may be colder than the passenger side airflow.

The controls aren't making that happen, its just about how the inlet ducts are located over the evap coil.

[dcw1]

Thanks for the replies!!

 

If it is low on refrigerant and a common sign is freezing up, wouldn't I get ice cold a/c air initially? I remember our house a/c was low on refrigerant and that is what happened. The entire coil block would freeze up and then I would have no air flow even though the system was running . For the few days before I had refrigerant added, I would simply turn off the a/c unit (leaving the "fan" on) and let it melt. You could hear the big ice blocks falling off. Once clear of ice, I would then get really cold a/c air for a while until it froze up again.

In my Fusion, I am not getting that pattern at all. There is no loss of air flow. Drivers side vent air is cool (not cold); passenger side vent air is warm or basically the cabin temp.

From your post I assume the blocked expansion valve would cause my Ford's symptoms as opposed to the freezing up?

 

Where on a 2010 Ford Fusion would a blocked expansion valve be and how hard to get to?

 

Thx again.

 

Regards, DAVE

[eGuru]

I would recommend having an a/c technician check your system. The problem could be the compressor or condenser coils. Either one of those is a simpler repair than a bad expansion valve or evap coil which require a lot of dash disassembly.

[Sammystewart1]

I am having the same issue although my Fusion is a 2012 SE with standard ac, NOT dual temp. Same suggestion on pulling glove box down to access the blend door actuator?

[eGuru]

For single zone systems there is only one blend door actuator and it is on the driver's side. You should be able to get your finger on the shaft by lying on the floor.

[dcw1]

In late July I started this thread (driver's side cool/passenger side warm) and have basically been living with the problem. I was starting to think about taking the vehicle in given the July 22 comment above when I drove my son's very old Tribute (2001). Its funny because I actually borrowed the Tribute so that I would be in a vehicle with a/c for my errand.

Well, no a/c in the Tribute either. Anyway, I get back from my errand and I say, "Hey, the Tribute has no a/c. How long has that been?" He's says, "So long, I can't even remember."

So, I figure maybe the Tribute refrigerant just needs to be refreshed. And it's the vehicle the kids drive and its pretty beat up and I am not spending hundreds of dollars to fix the a/c. Thus, I spend the $18 at Walmart on a large can of refrigerant and charge up the system. If you have never done it, it is very simple. The can of 134A that I bought had a reusable hose and pressure gauge as well for additional cans.

The Tribute took a lot of refrigerant and started to cycle on and off while I was filling it. Finally, it stayed on when enough refrigerant was put into the system. So far so good.

Given that went well, I figured why not attach the hose and gauge and just check the pressure on the low side on my Fusion. Well, it was very low. So, I added some refrigerant and as the pressure climbed, the air coming out of the vents started to get cold. I got the refrigerant pressure up to where it needed to be and the a/c is now pumping out very cold air. Both sides (driver and passenger) are cold as well.

I was still concerned though because although the Fusion's system was working, there must be a leak somewhere. Then when I took the hose attachment off the filler stem, I noticed there was a very small amount of fluid in the filler valve stem and it was bubbling slightly. The Schrader value appears to be leaking. So I started a new thread on this forum just yesterday.

Finally, my leak seems to be the Schrader value. It looks replaceable by me but you need a special tool. I'd rather not buy the tool needed to remove and replace the valve parts as it (the tool) likely will never be used again. I screwed the current valve stem cap on really tightly and maybe that will slow or stop the leak even more. Ideally, I will replace the valve. I asked in the new thread if anyone knows of a way to just use a better/different cap to fully seal that leaking valve.

Anyway, I am posting this because if you have the same symptoms as mine (driver's side cool/passenger warm), it may be you are really low on refrigerant. What caused that is a different issue. But, if the leak is slow enough, maybe the vehicle can get through summer before additional refrigerant needs to be added. Or maybe you'll get lucky and see or hear the leak when refrigerant gets added and the pressure goes up.

[drolds1]

I think you mean Schrader valve.

[dcw1]

Right, VALVE. Spellchecker seems to automatically what to change it to value.

[thefoeyouknow]

DO. NOT. INSTALL. REFRIGERANT. YOURSELF.

1. You don't know how much is already in there and you can overcharge the system.

2. Off the shelf refrigerant cans can contain sealers, and sealers destroy A/C servicing machines.

3. If your system had NO refrigerant left, you've just added refrigerant to a system that has air in it. Air in a sealed A/C system is bad, mostly because air contains moisture and moisture in the system makes things go bang.

 

You may have done more long term harm than good. Keep the can you charged, look it over for labeling that mentions sealers or stop-leaks. If indeed you have charged a sealer to your system, get ready for it to stop working and for it to cost around a grand and a half or more to flush it out and replace components that can't be flushed (expansion valve, compressor, receiver/dryer cartridge, any lines with baffles). If the can doesn't have sealer, take it with you to a shop with experienced and well certified technicians, and show them what you did. A lot of shops won't touch it if they know you charged who knows what to your system, because they don't want to pay $3000 to get their machine working again after a $150 A/C service wrecks it. If you don't have sealers and you can show them that, you've got a better chance. Keep in mind that most of what you're paying for when you're dealing with fixing cars is EXPERTISE, because competent labor is expensive both for you and for the shop. Think of a tech as a wholesale supplier of skilled labor, he sells to the shop at wholesale and they sell to you for retail. The better the product, the higher the price.

This isn't something you can fix. The leak has to be found, sealed, and then the system has to be safely serviced to work well and last.

[dcw1]

1. I am assuming that the reusable hose and gauge that came with the refrigerant is somewhat accurate. The low side pressure reading was in the low teens. I am assuming that is why I was getting barely cooled air out of the driver vents when the system was on.

2. The refrigerant (R134-A) I used had no sealers in it. I read the label and made sure to purchase refrigerant with no additional sealants or additives.

3. I don't believe the system had "no" refrigerant in it. The low pressure side was low but it did have a reading both when the system was on and off. If the system had no refrigerant in it, wouldn’t the pressure gauge read “0”?

 

If the system had pressure in it, how could air get into the system? It’s like a vehicle tire as it slowly leaks. Or a balloon with water in it. The leaking tire or balloon does not automatically draw in air. The only way air gets in is if the pressure is equalized or the pressure is lower inside than the pressure outside. Given I had a pressure reading on the A/C low side when the A/C system was off and on, I don’t see how air could have gotten in. I may be wrong here but I need some explanation.

Also, I found the leak. It is a very, very, very slow leak from the Schrader value on the low pressure side inlet. I messed with the Schrader valve pin by pushing it upward with a tiny screwdriver (used for eyeglasses) and it slowed the leak even more. I then put the valve cap on tightly. The valve cap is plastic so I don’t know how well it will further seal that leak but maybe it will slow it down some.

As far as replacing the parts inside the valve, see my recent post, “low pressure valve leaking”. I understand a special tool is needed. But I am still looking around to see if there is a decent valve cap that will actually seal the valve off completely.

The purpose of these forums is not to generally point people to a mechanic and say, “Take your car there.” The purpose of these forums to do to the exact opposite---save $$ by doing stuff that you can do yourself. Telling me this isn't something I can fix is not helpful. There are tons of videos showing Schrader valves being replaced and keeping the system sealed using a special tool to avoid air intake. I may end up doing that as the tool is only about $35. But again, if a tighter fitting cap will totally seal off the leak (or at least slow it down) I don’t mind adding half a can of $5.00 non-sealant refrigerant each year. If in a month my A/C system is still working fine, maybe I’ll just leave it and wait for it to get low again.

Since Sunday, the A/C has been working fine--- so far so good. I will ask this though: If the system is going to crap out because there was air in it, what timeframe am I looking at? What would the symptoms be of air in the line and that affecting performance? Are we talking complete shutdown, faded cooling over time, noises, explosions, etc?

I guess a final question would be is there any difference between refrigerant one would get from a mechanic and the refrigerant one buys in a can at the auto parts store (assuming one buys a can with no sealers or additives)?

Edited August 10, 2016 by dcw1

[thefoeyouknow]

Air in the system is an issue only if the system was dead. Once pressure equalized with atmosphere, you're exchanging with air and moisture. If the system wasn't dead, it's not a thing. What is a thing is that since it wasn't dead, you don't know how much refrigerant was already in there, so you don't know your total charge weight. I'm glad it's cold for you, but things worth doing are worth doing right, and at the very least you're dealing with a situation where you just don't have the equipment to do the job right. You can't judge an a/c system based on just the low side pressure, either. You have to be able to read the high side. Saving money is great, but there are somethings where the equipment and tools to diy are cost prohibitive. A can of r-134a in the hands of an average person is trouble.

[dcw1]

OK. So, the low pressure side does not tell me the entire picture. I can see that such would make sense. I'll take your word for it but an explanation would be helpful.

Is there a way to test the high pressure side or the "total charge weight"? How does one test or check the "total charge weight"?

Also, what's the likelihood that the low pressure side is fine yet the high pressure side or the total charge weight is way off? I know that we are dealing with some unknowns here but it would seem that there are certain likelihoods or possibilities. In other words, if it is almost unheard of that the low pressure side would be fine but the high pressure side would be way off, then I can weigh those possibilities and make a decision. Especially if the system seems to be working fine for the moment. Or is it common for the low pressure side to be fine but the high pressure side to be messed up when the system seems to be working for the moment?

I appreciate the responses but you are talking in such generalities. You are also telling me I can't do certain things "right". Tell me what I need to read the high pressure side. And tell me how the high pressure side could be screwed up even when the low pressure side is fine? What would cause that? What would possibly need to be fixed if that was the case? I certainly believe you when you say that could be the case----but explanations are necessary.

Also, what equipment don't I have? "Cost prohibitive" is a subjective term. What may be cost prohibitive for one person may be lunch money for another person. Is the tool needed to read the high pressure side a $25 tool or a $5000 tool? Or is it simply unavailable to the general public? If the tool is $25, maybe I invest in that rather than pay a shop $79 to test the system and tell me everything appears fine.

[thefoeyouknow]

Here's what we use, and as far as A/C service goes, it's pretty basic.

 

http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com/Cool-Tech-34988-AC-Recover-Recycle-and-Recharge-Machine-P159022.aspx?zmam=31282435&zmas=50&zmac=750&zmap=ROB34988&gclid=Cj0KEQjwoau9BRDMvsnv5MCh24UBEiQAKOqcfaslX6nVQOfT6MnX-nmH9RQnuYLYszta3kx7jkW7WoYaAsZH8P8HAQ

 

From a purely diagnostic standpoint (for pressure)

 

http://www.tequipment.net/Robinair/42216/HVAC-Manifolds/?Source=googleshopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwoau9BRDMvsnv5MCh24UBEiQAKOqcfcgrBiLrKSIgneUBuAepCIJ5SVBsoFL6MDlx_-XRiVUaAu7R8P8HAQ

 

If you couple this with a vacuum pump and a cylinder scale, you can work fairly well at home without a pro level machine. If you know what you're doing.

I don't really have the patience to continue to preside over a class here on A/C Theory, diagnostics and service, but I'll tell you a little bit more.

High side pressure can be low while low side is good if there is an orifice tube/expansion valve problem, it can be high if you have an obstruction (such as a receiver/dryer problem like a desiccant package rupture) or a "hot condenser" problem, which itself can be cause by a failed or failing cooling fan or accumulated debris between the condenser and radiator. High side tells you how the capacity of the system is coping with environmental conditions such as temperature and humidity, as well as how hard the compressor is laboring. High side will show you valve problems inside the compressor, and when the high side seems ok, it can give you insight into your overall charge level. Low side really only conveys info about the effectiveness or the evaporator and expansion device. If you've seen the pressure charts much, low side can be correlated to evaporator discharge temperature as well. Low side can help you determine if the clutch is over or under cycling which can help diagnose problems such as icing (evaporator under temp freezing it's own condensation). There's much more. Simply hooking up a can and adding refrigerant is like trying to shoot an apple off someone's head in the dark while wearing a blindfold and solving a Chinese finger puzzle. Please be mindful of the complexity of vehicle systems you intend to work on yourself, some are within the range of a home mechanic, but some are not. Knowing the difference can save you money, even when you think it's not.

[dcw1]

OK. So there can be a lot going on and I appreciate the responses. I will say though that again you are simply throwing out the laundry list of things that could be wrong without reading or analyzing my vehicle's symptoms. This thread was started by me describing a very specific condition with my A/C unit. I suspect that 3/4 of the problems you describe in your last post don't fit my vehicle's symptoms. For example, I don't think I have accumulated debris around the radiator or a bad cooling fan. And I didn't just dump a can of refrigerant in the system. I specifically checked the low side pressure before adding any refrigerant.

 

If responding to posts here tries your patience, then simply stop responding. We are adults here. I know generally what my A/C will cost to fix if I totally screw it up. It was screwed up to begin with. Telling people they need to see their mechanic is not what this forum is for. That's like telling people to go find the manual on line. That's not helpful.

 

Rather these forums designed to potentially help people avoid spending hundreds of dollars needlessly. Given your posts here, (and in particular the last two sentences of your last post) there should not even be an A/C category----just take your car right to the mechanic. It's too complicated for the general public to handle.

 

My last comment will be that you have not once made a suggestion as to what you think was (is) wrong with my vehicle's A/C given the initial symptoms, the low side pressure readings, and the way it is acting now that is had refrigerant added. Given your obvious extensive knowledge I would expect at least a possible diagnosis as opposed to an endless list of "could be" -- many of which don't even make sense given the symptoms.

[akirby]

Dude - chill out. You have zero experience with AC systems and thefoeyouknow has a lot. It's a complicated system requiring specialized tools and knowledge to do it right.

 

There are plenty of things you can easily DIY but this isn't one of them.

[akirby]

Telling people they need to see their mechanic is not what this forum is for. That's like telling people to go find the manual on line. That's not helpful.

 

Actually it is in this case. There are some things that just aren't DIY. Not telling people to see a mechanic with the proper training and equipment in this case would be reckless.

[akirby]

Also - telling people to RTFM is also entirely appropriate.

[thefoeyouknow]

Could be's are all that I've got, I haven't got my hands on your car, and your symptoms are not enough to go on given the broad field you're playing on. Likeliest possibility is low charge, but you really need a why. Without that, you never really escape the problem. I don't treat symptoms, I solve problems, and that's why I wear an ASE Master patch on my uniform shirt. That is why I feel like you need to know the game to play it.

[dcw1]

Please re-read my posts. I specifically said I noticed the Schrader valve was leaking very slowly. Not one suggestion about that.

 

I see nothing wrong with telling someone to check to see if there is debris behind the fan or radiator. That's buried in the laundry list. Is that something a master mechanic needs to fix? No. But instead of you suggesting that, you jump right to go see a mechanic.

 

Cooling fans not coming on? That's in the laundry list also. Do you suggest that I check those? No. Go see a mechanic. Can us idiots not change out a cooling fan? Apparently not.

 

Telling someone to read the manual is condescending and useless. A better response would be YOU read the manual and tell them what they need. And if you think the answer is in the manual and the person is just lazy, just don't respond.

 

The idea that not telling me to go to a mechanic is reckless is condescending as well. You are so right. Us idiots need you elites to protect us. Tell me to see a mechanic right off the bat. Just what I was looking for.

 

If someone asks a question, answer the question or don't respond. I and most people don't need you to tell me to go see a professional or check the manual. Telling someone to do so just shows that you don't have any idea what the problem is. But people posting questions here are looking for answers, not directions to their local mechanic.

 

A/C still working fine.

 

All others posting A/C questions, please stop looking for answers here. Immediately go see your A/C mechanic regardless of symptoms, age or value of the vehicle, your budget, or your skill level. It's way too complicated for you to handle.

[akirby]

Oh stop it already. Thefoeyouknow has helped dozens (if not hundreds) of people here - far more than you have. And rarely does he say to take it to a professional.

 

Just because you don't like the answer it doesn't make it any less valid.

 

Now unwad your panties or take it somewhere else.