Squirmy handling on '14 Fusion with 18" wheels

[Sunset 14]

Hi all. Well, I've had my 2014 Fusion SE for three months now, and I still absolutely love the car - except for the ride and handling. These are the details:

 

It's a one-owner with 60,000 miles on it.

It has the 1.5 Ecoboost with a six-speed automatic.

It has Ford OEM 18" wheels that are nice and straight, with 45-series Michelin tires that aren't new, but are very evenly worn.

The Ford dealer that I bought it from put it up on his lift a few days ago to inspect the suspension, and he also checked the alignment. All got a clean bill of health. He even gave me a printout of the alignment results, and they are all within factory spec.

It drives and stops straight - as long as the road is smooth.

 

So here's the problem: whenever I hit any irregularity in the road surface (pot holes, uneven lane heights, driveway entrances, etc), it seems to over react and really squirms around on its suspension. My comparison vehicle is the 2010 Fusion SEL that I traded in on this car; it had 17" factory wheels with 55-series tires and rode and handled much better. 

 

I read a lot of car magazines, and have read comments from the vehicle testers that low-profile tires not only ride rough, but are squirmy. I had never given that complaint much weight - figuring it couldn't be that bad, but maybe it really is. So my question for you guys is: have any of you with 18" wheels and 45-series tires experienced this same trait? Did it bother you enough to try to do something about it, and if so, were you successful? What fixed it?

 

Sorry about the long-winded post; these things take a while to explain sometimes! Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Scott

 

[bbf2530]

2 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

Hi all. Well, I've had my 2014 Fusion SE for three months now, and I still absolutely love the car - except for the ride and handling. These are the details:

 

It's a one-owner with 60,000 miles on it.

It has the 1.5 Ecoboost with a six-speed automatic.

It has Ford OEM 18" wheels that are nice and straight, with 45-series Michelin tires that aren't new, but are very evenly worn.

The Ford dealer that I bought it from put it up on his lift a few days ago to inspect the suspension, and he also checked the alignment. All got a clean bill of health. He even gave me a printout of the alignment results, and they are all within factory spec.

It drives and stops straight - as long as the road is smooth.

 

So here's the problem: whenever I hit any irregularity in the road surface (pot holes, uneven lane heights, driveway entrances, etc), it seems to over react and really squirms around on its suspension. My comparison vehicle is the 2010 Fusion SEL that I traded in on this car; it had 17" factory wheels with 55-series tires and rode and handled much better. 

 

I read a lot of car magazines, and have read comments from the vehicle testers that low-profile tires not only ride rough, but are squirmy. I had never given that complaint much weight - figuring it couldn't be that bad, but maybe it really is. So my question for you guys is: have any of you with 18" wheels and 45-series tires experienced this same trait? Did it bother you enough to try to do something about it, and if so, were you successful? What fixed it?

 

Sorry about the long-winded post; these things take a while to explain sometimes! Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Scott

 

 

Hi Scott and welcome to the Ford Fusion Forum. What you are describing does not sound normal to me.  It sounds as though something is going on with the tires or suspension. You state the tires are "evenly worn". They can be evenly worn and need replacement. Do you know if they are the original Factory tires? How worn? How much tread is left? If they are the original tires or worn down to 3/32", you should replace them.  And with the winter coming in the Great Lakes area, they should be replaced at 4/32", absolute minimum, if you drive in the snow and wish to be safe.

 

I am driving a brand new 2018 Lincoln MKZ (cousin to your car), with brand new 245/40-19 Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires.  A larger wheel with a lower sidewall aspect ratio than your Fusion and it does not behave at all in the way you are describing. Handling is straight and secure.  And my comparison/reference vehicle is a 2007 Lincoln MKZ with brand new, 225/50-17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires which I just installed a month ago.

 

The old/previous set of tires on the 2007 had ~47,000 miles, were down to 3/32" and I was no longer happy with the ride and handling of the car. In some ways, I felt what you are describing. Car felt a little unsettled at times. Was even thinking I might need to replace the struts.  After I replaced the old tires (old Pilot Sport A/S 3 to new Pilot Sport A/S 3+) and had an alignment performed, the car rode and handled like new. Even my wife (who drives that car) noticed the difference. And she usually only notices if something goes "BANG" or "KABOOM"!

 

Internet diagnosis is what it is. It would be unusual but not completely unheard of to need to replace struts at 60,000 miles, according to how the car was treated by the previous owner. However, I would start with closely examining those tires. And have the selling Dealer give it a better check up if you are still not happy.

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

Edited October 15, 2018 by bbf2530

[Sunset 14]

Hi bbf2530. Thanks for that long, informative response. The tires that are on the car are exactly the same kind as you have on your new Lincoln, and though I haven't measured the tread depth, they have more than half of their tread left; I'd estimate about 7/32" to 8/32". I'm pretty sure they are NOT the original tires. The only thing I can see that may be a clue to my problem is that they seem to be worn ever-so-slightly on the edges - despite being inflated to about 33PSI.

 

I think this is the first car I've ever owned with Michelins, but based on their reputation, I assume they are superior to nearly ever other brand. But based on personal experience, I am quite pleased with Yokohamas; I've bought three sets and have been very happy with all of them.

 

So a further description of the motion I'm feeling: whenever I run over a man hole cover that isn't quite flush with the pavement, I notice (especially on the rear) that the car feels like it's being yanked backward, and pitching to one side or the other. And the shock transferred into the passenger compartment is more harsh than I would expect. There is also a mild "clunk" occasionally from the rear on bumps that sounds like a suspension component that is wearing. 

 

Oh...... and one more thing: whenever I go over driveways at an angle, I can hear the door seals rubbing in the door jambs - as though the structural rigidity of the car wasn't very good. My 2010 was way better in all these regards than my 2014 is. Given the high crash test ratings of the current generation of Fusions, I'd expect them to be much more vault-like.

 

So does all of this give you any more hints? I really want to feel good about this car. Other than this issue, it really is a great car (the 1.5 Ecoboost is a real gem - especially with the transmission is "S" mode!).

 

Scott

[eGuru]

I would re-check the rear control arms and trailing links for worn bushings.

[Sunset 14]

eGuru..... thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. I bought Ford's most comprehensive warranty with this car which covers all non-"standard wear" items - which would seem to include those you mentioned. In my experience, it's difficult to find a technician who really knows his suspension parts, so if an item is worn (even a little bit), the most certain way to fix the squeaky one is to replace everything. If it were up to me, I'd have the dealer replace any component that utilizes a rubber bushing - front and rear. So the question is: who determines what work "needs" to be done? Is it the not-very-skilled technician, or me? I'll post another reply after I've visited my Ford dealer to let y'all know how it turns out.

[Waldo]

Certainly sounds like you have a bump-steer problem.  Basically all independent rear suspensions are designed to toe-in as they move up and toe-out as they go down to improve stability as the vehicle rolls in a turn.  But if any of the bushings are worn or the links are bent, you can get too much.  The result is that you get the squirmy feeling you describe, even though the alignment at curb height might be correct.

The true procedure to check for this is to put it on an alignment rack and check the alignment, then put a couple hundred pounds in the car and check again, then another couple hundred and check again and so on.  But this is very time consuming, so finding somebody who wants to do that is pretty unlikely.  And Ford doesn't publish a spec for this anyway, so the best you can do is just compare one side to the other.  If one side is off, it still doesn't point you to what the actual cause of the problem is.  So in the end, just throwing new parts at it might be the only real option.

[Sunset 14]

Hi Waldo. Thanks for your input. It's nice to see another informed response. I have an appointment this Friday to drop my car off at a local mechanic who is going to check it out. He seems like he's interested in finding the solution (as opposed to two local Ford dealers who don't).

[Webhito]

On 10/17/2018 at 5:57 PM, Sunset 14 said:

Hi Waldo. Thanks for your input. It's nice to see another informed response. I have an appointment this Friday to drop my car off at a local mechanic who is going to check it out. He seems like he's interested in finding the solution (as opposed to two local Ford dealers who don't).

 

Hi Sunset 14, I have a 2018 titanium model that does the exact same thing you are describing, did you ever fix your problem?

 

PS: Sorry for the necro!

[Sunset 14]

Hi Webhito. I haven't had the chance to take it into the dealer yet. I had an appointment to take it in about a month ago, but I moved the day before and taking my car to the dealer was pretty low on the list of priorities. So to answer your question, no I haven't gotten the problem fixed yet, but the more I drive the car, the more convinced I am that there really is something amiss. If I get it fixed, I'll post it on this forum.

 

I'm really surprised that you're having the problem on such a new car. I sure hope that doesn't mean it's "normal".

[bbf2530]

5 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

Hi Webhito. I haven't had the chance to take it into the dealer yet. I had an appointment to take it in about a month ago, but I moved the day before and taking my car to the dealer was pretty low on the list of priorities. So to answer your question, no I haven't gotten the problem fixed yet, but the more I drive the car, the more convinced I am that there really is something amiss. If I get it fixed, I'll post it on this forum.

 

I'm really surprised that you're having the problem on such a new car. I sure hope that doesn't mean it's "normal".

 

Hi Sunset.  Something I missed in my previous reply, but noticed when I reread your earlier posts today: You say you have your tires inflated to 33 PSI? What is the recommended tire pressure, located on the drivers door sill placard? ANd do you check it with a quality tire gauge? Do not go by the TPMS system.

 

33 PSI sounds low, considering that the recommendation for my MKZ is 38 PSI. Underinflated tires would certainly contribute to handling issues. Not saying it is the only cause, but it could be a contributing factor. It would also be a definite reason your tires are worn on the edges.

 

Same question to you Webhito.  What PSI are your tires inflated to? And again, check by using a good quality tire gauge, not just the TPMS system.

 

Get back to us and good luck.

[Sunset 14]

bbf2530: I just checked the door sill placard on my car, and the recommended tire pressure is 34 PSI. I then checked the tire pressure with a good gauge, and I got 33-34 PSI on all four tires, so I don't think underinflated tires is contributing to this effect. And by the way..... are you sure your recommended pressure is 38? I've been messing with cars for a few decades, and I've never heard of factory tire pressure recommendations being that high.

[Webhito]

12 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

Hi Webhito. I haven't had the chance to take it into the dealer yet. I had an appointment to take it in about a month ago, but I moved the day before and taking my car to the dealer was pretty low on the list of priorities. So to answer your question, no I haven't gotten the problem fixed yet, but the more I drive the car, the more convinced I am that there really is something amiss. If I get it fixed, I'll post it on this forum.

 

I'm really surprised that you're having the problem on such a new car. I sure hope that doesn't mean it's "normal".

Yea, its a real shame, car barely has 5k miles on it, I only use it to drop off and pick up my kids and  the occasional supermarket trip. According to the technicians, everything is where it should be. I hope I can find a solution as well, otherwise the car is going to a lot in the next few weeks.

7 hours ago, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi Sunset.  Something I missed in my previous reply, but noticed when I reread your earlier posts today: You say you have your tires inflated to 33 PSI? What is the recommended tire pressure, located on the drivers door sill placard? ANd do you check it with a quality tire gauge? Do not go by the TPMS system.

 

33 PSI sounds low, considering that the recommendation for my MKZ is 38 PSI. Underinflated tires would certainly contribute to handling issues. Not saying it is the only cause, but it could be a contributing factor. It would also be a definite reason your tires are worn on the edges.

 

Same question to you Webhito.  What PSI are your tires inflated to? And again, check by using a good quality tire gauge, not just the TPMS system.

 

Get back to us and good luck.

Hi bbf2530,

 

My tire pressure is spot on, since they are 19 inch rims, they are at 37 psi. At one point, when I took it into the shop, they dropped the pressure to 32psi, the ride was slightly more comfy, but still has the squirmyness that Sunset 14 mentions, not as bad, but still really pronounced when I hit something uneven.

 

I thought that getting smaller rims with taller sidewalls could fix the issue but considering that Sunset 14 has 18 inch and has the same issue, I am starting to believe this is something not related to tire sidewall rigidity.

[bbf2530]

5 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

bbf2530: I just checked the door sill placard on my car, and the recommended tire pressure is 34 PSI. I then checked the tire pressure with a good gauge, and I got 33-34 PSI on all four tires, so I don't think underinflated tires is contributing to this effect. And by the way..... are you sure your recommended pressure is 38? I've been messing with cars for a few decades, and I've never heard of factory tire pressure recommendations being that high.

 

Hi Sunset.  It would seem you have something going on, but as far as Internet diagnosis goes, I am stumped. I knew the tire PSI should not be a primary issue, but thought perhaps if they were  considerably overinflated or underinflated it may be a contributing factor. I would advise starting with what both eGuru and Waldo stated concerning the rear suspension..

 

And yes, the manufacturers recommendation on the door sill placard of my 2018 MKZ (245/40-19 tires) is 38 PSI. I also thought it was high, since my 2007 MKZ (225/50-17 tires) recommended pressure is 33PSI, but that is the recommended tire pressure.

Generally speaking, we will see the recommended PSI increase in direct relationship to wheel diameter increases/sidewall ratio decreases, as you can see by Webhito's Fusion with 19" wheels having a 37 PSI recommendation versus your 18" wheel 34 PSI.

I agree with you that these recommended pressures are certainly higher than when I began messing with cars, back in the early 70's.  But then again, factory, 4 door sedans were not driving around on 19" wheels and 40 aspect ratio tires back then either. Even factory fresh sport/muscle cars didn't have wheel tire combos like this back then.  Progress is a bitch.

 

PS - On a side note of other things I am not used to as compared to the old days: The recommended torque specification for my 3.0T MKZ's lug nuts is 150 ft-lb. A significant increase over my 2007 spec of 100 ft-lb, and even the 2017 MKZ's 100 ft-lb.

 

 

3 hours ago, Webhito said:

Yea, its a real shame, car barely has 5k miles on it, I only use it to drop off and pick up my kids and  the occasional supermarket trip. According to the technicians, everything is where it should be. I hope I can find a solution as well, otherwise the car is going to a lot in the next few weeks.

Hi bbf2530,

 

My tire pressure is spot on, since they are 19 inch rims, they are at 37 psi. At one point, when I took it into the shop, they dropped the pressure to 32psi, the ride was slightly more comfy, but still has the squirmyness that Sunset 14 mentions, not as bad, but still really pronounced when I hit something uneven.

 

I thought that getting smaller rims with taller sidewalls could fix the issue but considering that Sunset 14 has 18 inch and has the same issue, I am starting to believe this is something not related to tire sidewall rigidity.

 

Hi Webhito.  Considering these are new/relatively new, well maintained cars, I am stumped. Have you taken your car in for service and asked to have a tech take a drive with you to demonstrate your concern?  Take the tech for a spin over roads that you know will give that squirmy feeling. Also, while they checked Sunsets alignment, have they double checked yours?

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

Edited March 15, 2019 by bbf2530

[Webhito]

13 minutes ago, bbf2530 said:

Hi Webhito.  Considering these are new/relatively new, well maintained cars, I am stumped. Have you taken your car in for service and asked to have a tech take a drive with you to demonstrate your concern?  Take the tech for a spin over roads that you know will give that squirmy feeling. Also, while they checked Sunsets alignment, have they double checked yours?

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

 

Hi bbf2530,

 

Yes, I have taken the car out with the "Chief Mechanic", his reply: That's just how they handle. But I know as a fact that they like to beat around the bush to fix things so its quite possible that I will have to just keep on nagging, the car has a 2 year extended warranty as I was planning on keeping it for 5+ years, but the wiggle just feels unsafe, more so at highway speeds.

 

The car should be going in for its first real maintenance so I will ask them once more to try and fix it, if they can't I will definitely sell it and go to another car maker.

 

Will keep you posted if I get any news.

 

Cheers!

[bbf2530]

13 minutes ago, Webhito said:

 

Hi bbf2530,

 

Yes, I have taken the car out with the "Chief Mechanic", his reply: That's just how they handle. But I know as a fact that they like to beat around the bush to fix things so its quite possible that I will have to just keep on nagging, the car has a 2 year extended warranty as I was planning on keeping it for 5+ years, but the wiggle just feels unsafe, more so at highway speeds.

 

The car should be going in for its first real maintenance so I will ask them once more to try and fix it, if they can't I will definitely sell it and go to another car maker.

 

Will keep you posted if I get any news.

 

Cheers!

 

Hi Webhito.  Yes, while I can not feel what your car is doing, that is not "...just how they handle".

Have the tires been rotated yet? Wondering if the problem persisted or began after a tire rotation. Generally speaking a suspension problem on a new car would be unusual (without an accident/suspension damage being involved), but defective tires would be less unusual.  That is why I keep going back to the tires.

 

EDIT - And they have rechecked the alignment?

Edited March 15, 2019 by bbf2530

[Webhito]

4 hours ago, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi Webhito.  Yes, while I can not feel what your car is doing, that is not "...just how they handle".

Have the tires been rotated yet? Wondering if the problem persisted or began after a tire rotation. Generally speaking a suspension problem on a new car would be unusual (without an accident/suspension damage being involved), but defective tires would be less unusual.  That is why I keep going back to the tires.

 

EDIT - And they have rechecked the alignment?

Hi bbf2350,

 

Yes, it is quite odd, in fact, I just went to try out a Honda Accord to figure out if it was just me and not being used to multi link suspension but no, its handling is just different but I do have some news.

 

When I went, I took my wife, I picked up my kids as well, and as soon as the rear end was loaded, most of  the wiggling was gone, still stiff and hard, but much less wiggly.

 

Tires have been rotated, in fact, this was done when the car had 3k miles on it.

[Sunset 14]

Webhito:   "I picked up my kids as well, and as soon as the rear end was loaded, most of  the wiggling was gone, still stiff and hard, but much less wiggly";    you don't say which car was much less wiggly: was the Accord less wiggly, or your Fusion?

[bbf2530]

Hi Webhito.  Sorry, guess my question was little vague.  Did you have this handling problem since day one when you purchased the car, or is it something that you first noticed later? For example, was it only present/noticeable after the tires were rotated, maybe after a flat tire, maybe after hitting a pothole...etc?

Edited March 15, 2019 by bbf2530

[Webhito]

2 minutes ago, Sunset 14 said:

Webhito:   "I picked up my kids as well, and as soon as the rear end was loaded, most of  the wiggling was gone, still stiff and hard, but much less wiggly";    you don't say which car was much less wiggly: was the Accord less wiggly, or your Fusion?

Sunset 14:

Woops, sorry, should have specified, nah, the fusion was less wiggly when loaded, the accord was fine with no load whatsoever.

1 minute ago, bbf2530 said:

Hi Webhito.  Sorry, guess my question was little vague.  Did you have this handling problem since day one when you purchased the car, or is it something that you first noticed later? For example, was it first present/noticeable after the tires were rotated, maybe after a flat tire, maybe after hitting a pothole...etc?

bbf2350:

Since day one, I have never hit a pothole hard enough to do any damage, not even have I had a flat, they aligned it, twice ( at least they say ), they rotated the tires due to my comment of the wigglyness, but its still there. They checked the struts, multi link and said everything is within spec. This was done 3 times the same week until they eventually replaced an engine mount, this helped with the torque steer and I could say possibly a little bit with the wiggle.

[Jake977]

Hi all, I’m also experiencing the same exact issue with my 2014 Fusion 2.0 EcoBoost. It’s been to Ford for an alignment as well as new Nitto Motivo tires all the way around. It seems to “dive” left or right when hitting a pothole, crossing small bumps, and even when crossing the dividing line on the interstate. I’ve also noticed it squirming when raining if I’m traveling faster than 60 mph. The alignment showed that the car was in spec front and rear, however I was wondering if anyone has come up with a custom alignment specification to possibly fix the issue? It’s very aggravating to have a fairly new car and it be so uncomfortable to drive on the interstate or in the rain. 

[Sunset 14]

Jake977...... I don't know how you'd come up with a custom alignment spec for your car; that would be very time-consuming (and therefore very expensive), IF you could find a tech that was qualified to do so. But what I've wondered is whether there might be different, factory alignment specs for cars with 16 or 17" wheels, vs. cars with 18" wheels (like mine). Has anyone heard of different alignment specs for different sized wheels?

[bbf2530]

1 hour ago, Sunset 14 said:

Jake977...... I don't know how you'd come up with a custom alignment spec for your car; that would be very time-consuming (and therefore very expensive), IF you could find a tech that was qualified to do so. But what I've wondered is whether there might be different, factory alignment specs for cars with 16 or 17" wheels, vs. cars with 18" wheels (like mine). Has anyone heard of different alignment specs for different sized wheels?

 

Hi Sunset.  No, the factory alignment specs do not vary by wheel size.

[eGuru]

Did you experience the same issues before getting the Nitto Motivo tyres?

[Jake977]

11 hours ago, eGuru said:

Did you experience the same issues before getting the Nitto Motivo tyres?

Yes. It had Goodyear tires on when I bought it that needed replacing, so I instantly installed Sumitomo tires. The entire time I had them the car still had the issue. It did get a little better with the Nitto tires but it is still a very noticeable issue

[eGuru]

21 hours ago, Jake977 said:

Yes. It had Goodyear tires on when I bought it that needed replacing, so I instantly installed Sumitomo tires. The entire time I had them the car still had the issue. It did get a little better with the Nitto tires but it is still a very noticeable issue

So you experienced the same issue with the worn Goodyears, new Sumitomo, and new Nikko tyres?

 

Was your vehicle previously in a collision?