Squirmy handling on '14 Fusion with 18" wheels

[Jake977]

On 3/18/2019 at 5:52 PM, eGuru said:

So you experienced the same issue with the worn Goodyears, new Sumitomo, and new Nikko tyres?

 

Was your vehicle previously in a collision?

No collision history. It was a one owner car with 50k when I bought it and I ran it through the ringer because I’m very picky about my cars. The car now has 96k miles and has had two alignments with no help. I’m going to talk to a friend who does alignments and play around with the toe degree and see if I can come up with a good solution. I read on one forum that these cars have an aggressive toe setting so I’m going to try to take some out and see if it helps

[Sunset 14]

8 minutes ago, Jake977 said:

No collision history. It was a one owner car with 50k when I bought it and I ran it through the ringer because I’m very picky about my cars. The car now has 96k miles and has had two alignments with no help. I’m going to talk to a friend who does alignments and play around with the toe degree and see if I can come up with a good solution. I read on one forum that these cars have an aggressive toe setting so I’m going to try to take some out and see if it helps

 

Hi Jake977. Yes, please do let us know what you find out, and if possible, post actual alignment numbers. The thing that keeps going through my head is that if this really IS normal, some engineer thought it was good and signed off on it, and every gen2 Fusion with 18" wheels handles this way - which I find hard to believe. My car at times feels downright unsafe!

 

Referring to the "aggressive toe settings" statement, I think that is entirely possible. My car - even on dry pavement, but especially on wet pavement - literally "lurches" sideways and rocks the car side-to-side a little bit whenever I have the wheel turned sharply in low-speed maneuvers. And as I'm turning the steering wheel, as I get close to full lock, I can feel the resistance "give way" - as though something has gone over-center or something. This is all especially frustrating because the 2010 Fusion SEL that I traded in on this car was superb in the ride and handling department (the sucky 3.0 V6 engine and transmission is why I traded it in). 

[Webhito]

A year later and my car has been in 3 times already, sadly "no issues have been found" car has been checked in front of me, and despite it having the exact same handling when the mechanic tested it, he pretty much said this is how this handles due to the way it was set up. As I live in Mexico there aren't other alternatives for me to have this checked I have pretty much given up. Purchased a Fiesta last year and the Fusion is barely ever used. Will probably trade it in further down the road as I don't feel safe driving it with my family.

[Sunset 14]

1 hour ago, Webhito said:

A year later and my car has been in 3 times already, sadly "no issues have been found" car has been checked in front of me, and despite it having the exact same handling when the mechanic tested it, he pretty much said this is how this handles due to the way it was set up. As I live in Mexico there aren't other alternatives for me to have this checked I have pretty much given up. Purchased a Fiesta last year and the Fusion is barely ever used. Will probably trade it in further down the road as I don't feel safe driving it with my family.

Webhito..... does your car have the 18" wheels and tires? Before I bought this car, I drove a few SE's with the 17" tires and slightly taller sidewalls, and I don't recall them handling this way. It's been a year and a half since I started this thread, and my car still does it. And the tires are still quite evenly worn - but with less tread now. Argh!

[Webhito]

19 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

Webhito..... does your car have the 18" wheels and tires? Before I bought this car, I drove a few SE's with the 17" tires and slightly taller sidewalls, and I don't recall them handling this way. It's been a year and a half since I started this thread, and my car still does it. And the tires are still quite evenly worn - but with less tread now. Argh!

Heya Sunset, its been a long time!

 

Nope, mine came with 19's, even worse to be honest, I was actually thinking of grabbing a set of 18's but decided against it due to  the issue you were having with that size, seems the only option would be 17's, but I would really hate dropping around $1000 just to realize that it still handles like poop.

 

What tires do you have on your 18's?

Edited February 3, 2020 by Webhito
Added more info

[Sunset 14]

2 hours ago, Webhito said:

Heya Sunset, its been a long time!

 

Nope, mine came with 19's, even worse to be honest, I was actually thinking of grabbing a set of 18's but decided against it due to  the issue you were having with that size, seems the only option would be 17's, but I would really hate dropping around $1000 just to realize that it still handles like poop.

 

What tires do you have on your 18's?

 

Webhito:

I have Michelin Primacy MXM4's.

Don't buy any new tires and wheels yet; I have an appointment this Thursday at a local shop that is going to do a little tweaking for me. I did a little research this morning about the effects of toe settings on handling, and found this on the Tirerack.com website:

"Excessive toe settings often bring with them drivability problems, especially during heavy rain. This is because the daily pounding of tractor trailers on many highways leave ruts that fill with water. Since excessive toe means that each tire is pointed in a direction other than straight ahead, when the vehicle encounters a puddle that causes only one tire to lose some of its grip, the other tire's toe setting will push (excessive toe-in) or pull (excessive toe-out) the vehicle to the side. This may make the vehicle feel unsettled and very "nervous."  That exactly describes what my car does. But it also seems overly sensitive to the "crown" in the middle of the lane that you find sometimes. Whenever my car encounters any irregularity (including potholes) in the road, the reaction isn't straight up and down; there is always a lateral element - kind of a "pitching" or "waddling" effect. Anyway, I'll report back here what I learn this Thursday.

 

If you want to read the entire article, here's a link to it:      https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

[Webhito]

That would be great, definitely get back when possible. 

 

Also, glad to see you are still around!

[Webhito]

18 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

 

Webhito:

I have Michelin Primacy MXM4's.

Don't buy any new tires and wheels yet; I have an appointment this Thursday at a local shop that is going to do a little tweaking for me. I did a little research this morning about the effects of toe settings on handling, and found this on the Tirerack.com website:

"Excessive toe settings often bring with them drivability problems, especially during heavy rain. This is because the daily pounding of tractor trailers on many highways leave ruts that fill with water. Since excessive toe means that each tire is pointed in a direction other than straight ahead, when the vehicle encounters a puddle that causes only one tire to lose some of its grip, the other tire's toe setting will push (excessive toe-in) or pull (excessive toe-out) the vehicle to the side. This may make the vehicle feel unsettled and very "nervous."  That exactly describes what my car does. But it also seems overly sensitive to the "crown" in the middle of the lane that you find sometimes. Whenever my car encounters any irregularity (including potholes) in the road, the reaction isn't straight up and down; there is always a lateral element - kind of a "pitching" or "waddling" effect. Anyway, I'll report back here what I learn this Thursday.

 

If you want to read the entire article, here's a link to it:      https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

 

 

Tried quoting on the mobile version and it didn't come up right,

 

Anyways, will be waiting for hopefully good news, I love the car, specially now that it has a custom tune, but that squirmyness always gets on my nerves, the roads I drive are pretty bad, not pothole wise, but very uneven and with lots of bumps. Every time I hit an imperfection close to the curb it almost feels like the wheels are gonna hit it.

 

My tires are the original ones the car came with, which in this case are Contiprocontact 5 so sadly brand ain't the issue.

 

Best of luck!

[bangster]

I drove my 2015 with 16 inch wheels and snow tires 1200 miles and around town and found it really only was squirmy around 85 mph in turns (dry roads, 40-60 degree temps), and it wasn't dangerous, it just let me know I was near the limits. It didn't have the grip that it has with the LSA 18 inch tires, and those things are horrific.

 

Maybe it has been a long time since I drove a vehicle that handled well (my 00 Grand Marquis with no rear stab bar), but even with snow tires it out handles my 2017 Escape in most situations.

 

I think what made them a little squirrely was the rear ones were facing the wrong way (directional snow tires with big fat lugs with compound so soft), my daughter says after getting them pointed in the correct direction it is much better to drive, dry, drizzly, snow, slush, and ice.

[Webhito]

12 hours ago, bangster said:

I drove my 2015 with 16 inch wheels and snow tires 1200 miles and around town and found it really only was squirmy around 85 mph in turns (dry roads, 40-60 degree temps), and it wasn't dangerous, it just let me know I was near the limits. It didn't have the grip that it has with the LSA 18 inch tires, and those things are horrific.

 

Maybe it has been a long time since I drove a vehicle that handled well (my 00 Grand Marquis with no rear stab bar), but even with snow tires it out handles my 2017 Escape in most situations.

 

I think what made them a little squirrely was the rear ones were facing the wrong way (directional snow tires with big fat lugs with compound so soft), my daughter says after getting them pointed in the correct direction it is much better to drive, dry, drizzly, snow, slush, and ice.

 

Higher speeds definitely pronounce the squirmy feeling a lot more, but even going 30 on dry roads gives me a bad feeling, feels almost like driving on a gravel road and  having the rear end sweep out. One time I was going a tad faster than normal on a roundabout and the rear end did actually break loose, but definitely not something that should have happened since I was going nowhere near as fast as the car should be able to handle.

 

I have a 2007 Ecosport and a 2019 Fiesta st, I feel much more safe taking corners in the Ecosport than the Fusion, the Fiesta is on a whole different level though.

[Webhito]

@Sunset 14

[Sunset 14]

Sorry Webhito...... I took it in yesterday (Thursday) morning, and they couldn't do the alignment because the roads were covered with snow. Turns out that snowy roads aren't very good for judging the effectiveness of an alignment. Who knew!? I actually thought about that possibility as I was walking through the front door of the place that was supposed to do it, and the guy behind the counter confirmed my suspicions. So anyway........ I'm going to try again tomorrow if it doesn't snow again overnight.

[Webhito]

59 minutes ago, Sunset 14 said:

Sorry Webhito...... I took it in yesterday (Thursday) morning, and they couldn't do the alignment because the roads were covered with snow. Turns out that snowy roads aren't very good for judging the effectiveness of an alignment. Who knew!? I actually thought about that possibility as I was walking through the front door of the place that was supposed to do it, and the guy behind the counter confirmed my suspicions. So anyway........ I'm going to try again tomorrow if it doesn't snow again overnight.

 

Well, that sucks, but yea, totally expected.

 

 

Thanks for getting back. Hopefully they can figure out what's going on.

[Sunset 14]

Webhito (and everyone else who's been wondering.....),

 

I think I've finally resolved the issue. I finally was able to get the alignment checked yesterday, and the only setting that was out was the toe on the rear end (which they corrected). Then today, I had new tires put on (YokohamaYK740 GTXs), and together, those two things seem to have fixed the problem. There is still an annoying "squonk" sound when I change from backing up to moving forward again after having turned the steering wheel (as in when backing out of a parking spot), and someone on another forum suggested it could be a loose steering rack (seems unlikely, but not impossible). We'll see.....

 

Scott

[Webhito]

11 hours ago, Sunset 14 said:

Webhito (and everyone else who's been wondering.....),

 

I think I've finally resolved the issue. I finally was able to get the alignment checked yesterday, and the only setting that was out was the toe on the rear end (which they corrected). Then today, I had new tires put on (YokohamaYK740 GTXs), and together, those two things seem to have fixed the problem. There is still an annoying "squonk" sound when I change from backing up to moving forward again after having turned the steering wheel (as in when backing out of a parking spot), and someone on another forum suggested it could be a loose steering rack (seems unlikely, but not impossible). We'll see.....

 

Scott

@Sunset 14

 

Thank you so much for getting back, this probably proves that Ford either has their machines messed up or they are just messing around and not doing things properly ( or not at all ).

 

Was your alignment done within spec or did you modify it at all? Happy driving!

[Sunset 14]

He set it within spec, and gave me a printout of the final settings, that shows the upper and lower limits of the acceptable range. I haven't studied the printout closely enough to see how close he got to the middle of the range, but all of the "final" numbers were green - which means they were within the range. I won't experiment with anything outside the range unless I'm pretty sure there is a reason to.

 

As for Ford messing up, if there is a problem with the steering rack, I don't blame them. The car has enough miles on it (all of them in Michigan) that things start to go wrong with any car. As far as I can tell, Ford got this car right.

[Webhito]

1 minute ago, Sunset 14 said:

He set it within spec, and gave me a printout of the final settings, that shows the upper and lower limits of the acceptable range. I haven't studied the printout closely enough to see how close he got to the middle of the range, but all of the "final" numbers were green - which means they were within the range. I won't experiment with anything outside the range unless I'm pretty sure there is a reason to.

 

As for Ford messing up, if there is a problem with the steering rack, I don't blame them. The car has enough miles on it (all of them in Michigan) that things start to go wrong with any car. As far as I can tell, Ford got this car right.

Sorry, should have specified, meant regarding the alignment, a brand new car ( mine ) should not have come with the same issues unless someone hit it during delivery or something, but even so, I had mine checked 3 times, all 3 by Ford. Plus, plenty others have complained that theirs have not been fixed even after alignment as well.

 

Not sure what or who to blame but I got tired of waiting,I took my car the dealership today and will either trade it in or just sell it back. Ford won't help and I don't feel comfortable taking it anywhere else.

 

Glad you got one of your issues fixed though!

[kennycoulter]

Tramlining.

it isn't about the side wall, as much as it is the WIDTH of the tire.
grades, imperfections in the road, and slopes will pull the tires (and the car) in a million different directions.

When I traded in an 03 Mach 1 (245 wide) in on an 03 Cobra (275 wide), the tramlining was absolutely overwhelming.   It was a constant fight that required a lot of attention while driving.


The fusion has some pretty wide tires.  If you were able to find some thinner wheels and tires, 1. you'd do better on gas, and 2. you would be fighting your steering less.
the negatives of going to a thinner tire: these cars are HEAVY! it might be hard to find a tire with adequate weight and pressure.  the wider tire is supposed to keep your more stable in turns, so by comparison, you wouldn't be going around bends as stable.

[Sunset 14]

5 hours ago, kennycoulter said:

Tramlining.

it isn't about the side wall, as much as it is the WIDTH of the tire.
grades, imperfections in the road, and slopes will pull the tires (and the car) in a million different directions.

When I traded in an 03 Mach 1 (245 wide) in on an 03 Cobra (275 wide), the tramlining was absolutely overwhelming.   It was a constant fight that required a lot of attention while driving.


The fusion has some pretty wide tires.  If you were able to find some thinner wheels and tires, 1. you'd do better on gas, and 2. you would be fighting your steering less.
the negatives of going to a thinner tire: these cars are HEAVY! it might be hard to find a tire with adequate weight and pressure.  the wider tire is supposed to keep your more stable in turns, so by comparison, you wouldn't be going around bends as stable.

Kenny, thanks for your input. As I mentioned in a post a few months ago, I replaced the tires on this car, and it completely transformed the car. It now rides and handles the way it ought to, and I'm very pleased with it. I've read that wide tires can cause a car to "hunt" over irregularities in the road, but resisted the thought that Ford had "baked in" this fault on such a mainstream car as the Fusion by putting wide tires on it. I never would have guessed that tires could cause such a pronounced effect (especially since they were all Michelins, evenly worn, and still had at least 1/3 of the tread left), but I guess I learned something.

 

On a related note, since I solved this mystery, I am really quite happy with this car. It has the 1.5 Ecoboost, which makes plenty of power (especially in Sport mode!), and I like the way the transmission shifts, everything still works perfectly (after 6 years and 82k miles), and it looks good. This past weekend, on a trip home to Ann Arbor from Fort Wayne, IN, I reset the trip meter after I got on the highway, and it showed 40.8 mpg when I got home after 150 miles - and that was driving between 72 and 75 mph with the cruise control set and the A/C running. I was impressed!