2010 FFH poor hybrid performance

[mirak]

I bought my 2010 FFH new in fall 2009 and have since put about 115k on it. I know that hybrid battery performance is always weaker in winter weather, but this latest winter the hybrid performance is more or less nil.

 

Even in today’s 50 degree weather, the ICE kicks on pretty much instantaneously every time I hit the gas pedal. There’s just no more driving on battery.

 

The car does still use the battery in reverse, and otherwise drives normally.

 

So what should I do? Any warranty coverage? If the battery just up and dies will I still be able to drive the car on the ICE? What am I can I expect at this point long term?

[lolder]

Where does the EV limit bracket fall on the display? Mine reduced almost one line after several low HVB morning displays in the previous year that i attribute to individual cell shortings. The HVB is unlikely to recover from this but the car will still operate until a cell "opens" in which case the car will coast to the side of the road and be dead. An open cell is very rare, almost unheard of. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by lolder

[mirak]

By “EV limit bracket” do you mean the green bracket on the PWR Meter of the display?

 

That bracket is still displayed, but flat at the bottom of the meter. Back when the hybrid was performing more effectively, this green bracket sat about an 1/8 of an inch above the bottom of the meter and I was good at stretching this bracket with slow acceleration. I simply can’t do that anymore.

 

I note that the display says my hybrid battery is at least 80% charged and I still get the up and down arrows very briefly showing the battery is banking or disbursing power.

 

in other words, the hybrid tech still seems to be functioning - just at a very poor level. When I put my foot on the gas, even softly, the ICE kicks on.

 

Now if the worst that’s gonna happen is that I’ll get non-hybrid mpg, I’ll just keep driving the car. The gas savings will never justify dropping another couple thousand on replacing the battery. But I’m trying to figure out if I’m headed for more serious trouble, or if I still might have some warranty coverage, or if there is some easy fix I’m overlooking. 

[lolder]

No fix, no warranty unless you're in a CARB state. Just drive it.

[dogo88]

So if the battery pack is deteriorating then does it make any sense to replace it, or just run it til it dies? I know you can probably get the dealer to replace the pack but I would suspect their prices are very high. I did find a site that proclaims they are nationwide and will come out and replace the battery pack where ever you are. The are green tec auto and list a new Fusion 2010-2012 battery pack for $2950. No price for installation listed so I would expect that to be extra. Not sure if a 4-5k new battery makes sense on a 10 year old car or that some other components will need replacing driving up the price. 

[lolder]

Run it til it dies. 2010-12s have the following problems; throttle body carbon which is an easy repair, O2 sensors the same as all cars, possible problems of high mileage electric vacuum pump common to Fords. They basically are a long lasting car.

[allen84]

I'm having the same problem. Haven't driven in EV mode in well over 2 months. The car is 2010. If I drive for over 20 mins and the temp outside is above 0 C (32F).  The car will idle on battery when stopped at the light.  Even then that is becoming a rare occurrence.  So the engine is constantly running and it's eating up my gas badly.   

 

I'm thinking it could be 12v battery. I think it might be dying? But it never gave me problems running the car. I read on google somewhere, but never really found a straight answer, that the 12v battery controls the hybrid components and stuff.  Not sure if it's affecting the transition to EV mode from engine, could it?  Considering I'm still using the same 12v battery when I bought the car in 2010.  

[eGuru]

A 9 year old 12V battery in your 2010 FFH, that is amazing. Definitely, replace it.

[dogo88]

On 12/27/2018 at 1:20 PM, lolder said:

Run it til it dies. 2010-12s have the following problems; throttle body carbon which is an easy repair, O2 sensors the same as all cars, possible problems of high mileage electric vacuum pump common to Fords. They basically are a long lasting car.

 

Lolder,

 

Appreciate the advice along with the knowledge you and others (drolds1, eGuru, akirby, VonoreTn)   here have shared with all of us on this forum. While my working on engine days have mostly past, I found your knowledge and the information shared interesting and helpful. 

 

My 2010 FFH, actually got it on 5/2009 sight unseen when ordered it on 3/2009, still runs. And as you have said, in this thread and other threads, that it is a workhorse. But after almost 10 years and other than one 12v battery replacement, set of tires and rear brake pads that wore out from sticking calipers, cabin filters and once a year oil and filter changes, it has been the least expensive vehicle I have ever owned. But looking at HVB replacement procedure and costs, investing major dollars in a 10 year old vehicle seemed to be a poor decision. So I have traded it in for a new 2019 FFH Titanium. What a major improvement to the original. Hopefully Ford got it right by now.  Very pleased at how it runs and all the doodads I can play with. 

 

Yeah, I know Ford has said they will stop making cars except for Mustangs and I think that is a decision that will come back to bite them. But I have been very pleased at my first FFH and I usually get the Ford premium extended warranty so it can get fixed when problems arise.  

 

So I believe I still will remain on this forum to read what folks post. The only other hybrid forum I saw was the Energi one. 

 

 

 

Dan

[drolds1]

Enjoy your new FFH!

[lolder]

Ditto. i'll be nosy and ask what your trade in allowance was.

Edited December 30, 2018 by lolder

[dogo88]

The sticker price was a bit under $36k but with a bit of haggling I got them to give me $4500 for the trade in. They originally wanted to do only $3100. I was doing cash and no extras, so not a lot for them to work with in extracting more money from my wallet.  Then there were $3500 in Ford rebates and dealer discounts. So my out the door price with sales tax of $2k and vehicle tags, transferring rather than new ones, was a bit under $29k. Not the best deal I may have been able to search for, but I wanted white exterior with the russet leather seats which no one orders. All the local dealers around here only get black. And since I expect to keep it until the hybrid battery warranty ends, it's a price that I think  is good.  

 

I know the battery was going to be an issue. Not sure they did or cared. It was clean and well cared for so from that perspective they were ok with it. They said at almost 9 years old it was going to be very hard for them to sell. I can't disagree with that point.  But since I bought it in 2009 it really is almost 10 years old.

 

So far only one short 2 hour road trip and pleasantly surprised at all the bells and extras in the Titanium. Rides nice, way more pickup, better mileage, and all the driving aids are really nice especially since I've never had them before. Like when cruise control is on and the traffic in front of you slow down. In the past I would hit the brakes or try and slow the set speed down. Well this system automatically slows down to match traffic speeds and then speeds back up as they go faster up to your original set speed.  Still learning and exploring the vehicle and it's fun. 

 

Again thanks for all the info.

[drolds1]

You're going to love that adaptive cruise control even more when you get into stop-and-go traffic and you don't have to be constantly stepping on the brake and throttle.  It makes it a lot less tiring.  It was a leap of faith for me, however.  You never think it's going to stop in time but it does.  Sometimes it's a little abrupt.  My natural inclination is to brake before the car does and I find myself with my foot poised over the pedal.   Takes some getting used to.

[dogo88]

Thanks for the info.

[geopilot]

For what it's worth my 2010 FFH also rarely goes into EV mode anymore below 50 degrees- I have 112k on it, and the battery shows full most of the time around town, but don't get much EV operation. It is definitely temperature-related, but did not use to be like this. HV battery must be aging I guess. Any reason to have the firmware updated when I take it in for the airbag recall? 

[eGuru]

9 hours ago, geopilot said:

For what it's worth my 2010 FFH also rarely goes into EV mode anymore below 50 degrees- I have 112k on it, and the battery shows full most of the time around town, but don't get much EV operation. It is definitely temperature-related, but did not use to be like this. HV battery must be aging I guess. Any reason to have the firmware updated when I take it in for the airbag recall? 

If you are up-to-date on all the other recalls, I would avoid any firmware update. My wife has experience with her Civic hybrid where Honda snuck in a firmware change during a recall for another issue and that change decreased the usage of EV mode (in order to lessen the possibility of HV battery warranty claims).

Do I like my Ford? - yes. Do I trust Ford? - umh.

[WalterTA]

Took my 2010 FFH in for (a) the airbag recall, and (b) because the EV mode was exhibiting all of the problems you guys have noted above.  Dealer ran "all the diagnostics in the book" and could not find anything wrong with the EV.  Great.  Replaced the airbag.  As a result, now my bluetooth does not work, the USB charger in the arm rest is kaput and the remote ignition is out of whack.   This is sooo much fun...

[Milan_OH]

All, 

 

Here's how you fix your issues with no EV mode................