hector frez Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 On 6/16/2019 at 2:04 AM, allen84 said: I couldn't edit the thread anymore, as I forgot to add 1 more picture. So here is the repeat of the last step with the last picture: Done ! here is the last window popup you will see confirming the change. and cycle the ignition OFF and then back on. When you drive it to test it out, the result is immediate. Thanks a lot!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acoustasonic13 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 21 hours ago, lolder said: All true but I can't remember of even one incident in over 10 years on several forums of a HVB failing open-circuit which is the only failure mode that stops the car from driving. The D.O.E. 160k mile test showed only an 8% capacity loss. Another problem with the software limitation is the HVB stops equalizing which is probably worse than using an old HVB normally and might actually hasten an open-circuit failure. Keeping the ICE running except when stopped is not a strategy to preclude a "Dead On the Road" event. The HVB always has to start the ICE and that load is probably the same as the ~20 kw used while driving. I've never seen that figure but it spins up the ICE to 1000+ rpm in .4 seconds. The way these NiMH HVBs are cycled should make these batteries last indefinitely long. Most of these cars are out of warranty now except in some CARB states. i don't expect Ford to do the right thing here and I would definitely recommend everyone do this software fix even if it makes the car quit at 15 years. Aftermarket HVBs are available for ~$3.5K, far less than $8k from Ford. Do you know if the battery age reset also resets the HVB equalizing sequence? I have a new to me ‘10 that has been reset, and I think I know what to expect when the batteries “condition” themselves, but have yet to experience it. I have only driven this FFH about 500 miles since the reset. How often would this equalizing cycle take place normally? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) There has been a report that re-conditioning is restored. My car did it about every 8k miles until it was 9 years old and then stopped as the EV functionality was reduced. When re-conditioning, the ICE does not shut off for 15-20 minutes even when the car is stopped and charges up to the "H" and stays there. There is no discharging from the HVB during the event, only up arrows will be seen. When finished it returns to the normal middle. If you're cruising at higher speed you might not notice it. The car will normally only move by EV in reverse even if the ICE is running. If you select "R" during an event, it stops the event so that the HVB can move the car. When you come out of "R", the event may continue. If the re-conditioning is not a success a message will be displayed to take the car to a dealer. I have never heard of this message being displayed. Edited February 2, 2020 by lolder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I got my 2010 FFH on 7/18. At about the end of the 8 year hybrid warranty, one morning the HVB was near the "L" mark after being left at the normal middle the previous night. I wondered if I had left the car in accessory and run the 12 vdc and HVB down like I had once before but that time the 12 vdc was dead and this time it was not. The car started normally and recharged to the middle. This happened several times in the next year and each time the EV functionality diminished. I thought I had experienced shorted cells until allen84 started this thread. In most hybrids the HVB is several hundred cells in series. The HVB must be functioning for the car to move as HVB electric power is required to control the torque on one of the motors in the transmission to even allow the ICE to move the car. If one of the cells fails open circuit, the HVB voltage will be zero and the car will not move and coast to a stop. The ICE may stay running but will not start if it is stopped. This is exceedingly rare. If a cell shorts, the HVB voltage of about 300 volts only drops about 1.4 v. and the energy capacity of the battery only drops less than 1%. This has also been rare. The usual effect of lower HVB voltage is a reduction in the maximum EV speed which is what most of us noticed. Electric motors need higher voltages as their speed increases due to a characteristic called "back EMF. EMF is "electromotive force" or voltage. I think allen84's thread is the most valuable one ever posted on any FFH forum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acoustasonic13 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) Thank you lolder for the invaluable insight on this system. I also agree about allen84’s most valuable thread ever. Edited February 2, 2020 by Acoustasonic13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverPed Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 My Grandson just completed the “fix” on the 3rd 2010 Fusion using Allen’s directions. Three very happy owners including me. So grateful to enjoy driving my car again. We are in the Denver/Boulder area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumandor Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Let me chime in and say that I applied this procedure this morning and noticed the change. I bought a 2011 Ford Fusion Hybrid 4 days ago with 198k miles on it. The previous owner had told me that because of the cold weather the engine was turning on more often. This seemed odd since I saw on the dash that EV mode would disapear 20 seconds after starting the car. Looked around several forums and found this thread. Big shout out to Allen84!! My EV mode is now lasting up to 35 mph (if i dont need to accelerate too fast) and even at about 45mph if I take my foot of the gas the EV mode will engage and on flat road EV mode will continue. Also the initial 0 to Go lag is gone. As a piece of advice I used the Wifi Module you have to be a bit patient with registering on the OBD wifi network. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variety Motors LLC Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 We are a dealer in southern CA and normally we buy a lot of Ford Hybrids such as Escape, fusion and Mkz. This month we both two Ford Fusion 2010 (190K) and a 2011 (130K) miles on it. From the get go I noticed the gas mileage was around 28MPG and constantly the engine running. I was puzzled since my previous Ford Hybrids operating close to 40 plus mpg. Thank god I found this site since a local Ford dealership was clueless of such a simple update will put everything back in order. I bought the same recommended ODB II from amazon and followed instructions step by step. The only issues I had to download the correct drivers for the ODB II device. Once I figured it out the process took less than a 1 minute. I changed the HV startup back to 1 and saved the deal. Its incredible just driving a few miles after that my Fusion showing averaging above 50 plus mpg vs. in the 20's before. Keep up the good job and thanks for wonderful info. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen84 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) On 1/29/2020 at 9:16 PM, MMHOwner2010 said: The dealer seems to think I do. Has the fix worked for everyone with the issue? Has anyone relapsed after? Is it going to work for the remainder of the life of the car? I'd rather not have it "fixed" and blow my warranty (by having it functional the remainder of the period) only to have it relapse after the warranty has lapsed.. I think if the fix is really the fix, then why hasn't Ford agreed with it? Why "investigate" instead of just reprogram the battery age at minimal cost to all parties? We know the theoretical degradation was about 4%, but whats the actual degradation we're all experiencing? IIRC early Prius models had to have batteries replaced, and we're using similar chemistry to those. I'm nearing 8 months since I've applied the fix, and have experienced no issues .... so far. My car has been operating like it was before when I first bought it. I'm happy with it at the moment and moving on. Hopefully, it will last for many years. Preferably 5+ years minimum that would be awesome. If anything, nothing would be damaged. It would just be the hybrid battery would no longer hold a charge anymore. Two things might happen. Your car will be dead on the road without a functioning HVB or it will just run on gas engine at all times? I'm sure the car will give you some type of warning, but I will never know what type of problem would manifest until I experience it. I'm confident that the battery will just not go kaput on me that quickly. I think it will last a little while longer. In the meantime, your car is not using the HVB anymore, or any of the hybrid engine & components. Your car is using the gasoline engine more often, which would go through more wear and tear, and the other components that operate alongside the ICE, would cause undue stress as well. Edited February 5, 2020 by allen84 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen84 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) On 1/31/2020 at 2:47 PM, capetownkg said: Just picked it up. Read the write up they gave me. Ford is well aware of this. "This is normal characteristics due to age of battery". Cause yeah when I bought this they said you have a 10 year hybrid car after that it's a gas vehicle! Lol what a joke. Last Ford I have that's for sure That is just crazy. 8k for a replacement battery? Now I know why they are called Stealerships. They are obviously trying to get you to go through with the replacement while advising against doing the reset and refusing to stick the change. They had the audacity of telling you they reset it, confirming it works, then reverting it right back, just so they can make that money off you. In some ways, it probably is a liability issue on them, maybe that's why they didn't go through with it. But we all know your car will still work run on gas engine, and not just completely die at high speeds while driving the car. I believe no further damage will occur to anything else to the car since it's just the battery that will not be providing power anymore. I had the works oil change done this past summer at my dealer. After their courtesy 80 point inspection check, they said one of my calipers is seized on one of my rear wheels and brake pads are worn down. They quoted me almost $750 to fix it. It would only be the rear brakes service only, since the front brakes are still ok! Even telling me when I want to schedule it to get it fixed. I just told them I'd think about it and get back to them. I bought brake pads and rotors for the rear wheels off of Rock Auto for $100. Reading on the internet beforehand, I read that the calipers rarely go bad, that it most likely needed a re-grease and clean up of the slider pin. I took my parts and had my local mechanic to install and also clean up and re-grease the caliper, only charged me $200 for it. Saved $500. Edited February 5, 2020 by allen84 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capetownkg Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Well I can't thank you enough @allen84. It worked exactly as described and now my car is back to normal. You saved me $7990 (I paid $10 for the forscan). A buddy and I had it done in no time and now it's on to seeing how far this thing will go! Be on the lookout for some beer money headed you way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Elon Musk has said Ford is one of the most likely to go bankrupt in the EV transition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, lolder said: Elon Musk has said Ford is one of the most likely to go bankrupt in the EV transition. Says the man who can’t turn a profit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie1138 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Allen is DA MAN! I had difficulty getting FORScan licensing to open, he gave me a hint or 2 that got my mind working, and was able to get the licensing into the box. Got it working, and was able to make the battery date change. My Fusion is a hybrid again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie1138 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Allen, do you have a link to send more beer money? How do I show my appreciation for your write up and willingness to assist us in the midst of Ford’s conFUSION? (LOL) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New to me FFH owner Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Thank you Allen84 The solution was easy and the results were immediate. I had read over this forum’s recommended approach for a month with apprehension to do anything that may potentially impact my 2011 FFH with 40K miles. My FFH had the same initial start hesitation, limited hybrid mode and dropping mpgs as previously described by all the others in this forum. I purchased the OBDLinkEX as recommended by Forscan.org and followed the directions. The directions were easy to follow, just a few steps. Upon completion, I too heard the reassuring thunk in the trunk. I drove off in the car for 20 minutes, hybrid mode returned after 2 miles when the car warmed up. Stopped and filled the tank with gas and drove home to 51mpg at 45 degrees F today. Thank you again Allen84, I set up an account today to encourage everyone like me to trust that this will work and try the solution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2qman Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Start early on setting up the software it took 24 hours for a license approval from forescan and still the forescan software did not erase the "load License" banner showing the software was good until (date 2 months). I let you know when software loads my license, I can't find help line or contact at for scan. The software has been 3 day ordeal so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POB in VA Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Wow. After more than a year and 3 trips to my (useless) local Ford dealership service center (2 of those 3 I was told, as others, that this was "normal;" finally on the 3rd visit they at least "verified" my complaints), terrible driveability (dangerous, actually, with the throttle lag and weak starts) and plummeting mileage, this morning I applied this "patch." Add me to the "success" column! As Allen84 said, "results are immediate." Boy were they ever!! I have my car back!! I have about 125K miles on it and it was (is) otherwise still in excellent shape. Even though the temp this morning was cool, in the low 30's, EV was working "like new." Whereas before the ICE started when I literally lifted my foot off the brake at a stop, I can drive again on EV! Overall the fix took me about 15 minutes (mostly due to my unfamiliarity working with FORscan and this was the 1st time I'd ever used the OBD system). The longest "wait" was to get my FORscan forum membership approved by one of their administrators, that took about 30 minutes from when I submitted my materials. So for about $21 (cost of OBD harness on Amazon) the car is working like new again. Ford (as others have noted) refuses to fix this (I wrote to them; cue the cricket sound in the background for the silence waiting for a reply!); they have a bulletin out that others have posted telling dealers to NOT do ANYTHING about this. I suppose even if I could have found a dealer to fix it the "stealership" probably would have charged hundreds for this (on my 2nd trip to the dealer the "service writer" said "the battery is fine," but "maybe the transmission is going, and those cost $10,000!"). I also submitted a complaint with NHTSA, which I encourage others to do, as well. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/ I doubt a class action suit, given "our" numbers, would do anything except cause a lot of frustration and if anything was "won," the lawyers would get most of it. But maybe if NHTSA was hit with dozens, hundreds, thousands of complaints they'd at least make Ford "squirm" a little. Ford isn't going to do anything on its own, as another post very wisely commented upon (old, out of production platform, low numbers, non-fatal (yet, anyway) issue; many of the engineers who worked on it may not even be w/Ford any more). It just takes a few moments to do this - please consider doing so. Seriously, it IS a safety issue with the adverse driving capabilities the cars have in this "mode." Allen84 - have you figured out anything about those other error messages? Will the car go through the periodic regeneration cycling (where the ICE runs for several minutes)? I have to give you a humble and most sincere THANK YOU for this. All of us owners have been damaged in one way or another, and you've found a way to restore (a) safety (I really feel that the cars are unsafe with this issue - hesitation, throttle lag, poor acceleration, etc.), (b) the gas mileage that we all paid Ford for "up front" in the cost of the battery pack and (c) resale value. Prior to the "fix" if I or any of us had wanted to sell the car the residual value realistically would have been damaged. I saw another post in which an owner had said the poor mileage was due to the cold. But you can't hide or "fib" the poor performance that the car exhibited. Best wishes to all! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulGo Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Perhaps because my two 2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid cars only had about 44,000 miles on them when I took the cars out of storage because of the air bag recall I did not notice any hesitation but the hybrid mode disappeared. I initially blamed it on the long term storage because I could not imaging Ford would program this stupid behavior. I went though the same frustrations with my dealership because the computer diagnostics did not show any error codes. I did write a email to the head of Ford but I got no response. I did contact NHTSA and filed a complaint. I don't thing Ford is putting a high priority about developing a permanent fix since it is taking so long. Maybe they just hope to quiet everyone and avoid doing anything. I thing thing it might be helpful in writing your Congressman or Senator to apply some legislative pressure. I did apply the "fix" and I am very pleased with the results. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen84 Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 1:37 PM, one2qman said: Start early on setting up the software it took 24 hours for a license approval from forescan and still the forescan software did not erase the "load License" banner showing the software was good until (date 2 months). I let you know when software loads my license, I can't find help line or contact at for scan. The software has been 3 day ordeal so far. Once you are a member of the forum, when the mod approves. Log into the forum. Go to this link https://forscan.org/forum/extlic.php and generate the key file. Once you have the key file on your computer, You don't need to open the file. Launch your Forscan Program: -click on the "steering wheel with the question mark" icon, on the left hand side -click on the "Load license key" button, and a window will popup for you to load the file. Find the key file you saved on your computer, and press ok. -next window will popup saying to restart the application, say yes. When you launch the Forscan again, it should fully be activated for 2 months to use. You can then repeat the process again after 2 months. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen84 Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, POB in VA said: Wow. After more than a year and 3 trips to my (useless) local Ford dealership service center (2 of those 3 I was told, as others, that this was "normal;" finally on the 3rd visit they at least "verified" my complaints), terrible driveability (dangerous, actually, with the throttle lag and weak starts) and plummeting mileage, this morning I applied this "patch." Add me to the "success" column! As Allen84 said, "results are immediate." Boy were they ever!! I have my car back!! I have about 125K miles on it and it was (is) otherwise still in excellent shape. Even though the temp this morning was cool, in the low 30's, EV was working "like new." Whereas before the ICE started when I literally lifted my foot off the brake at a stop, I can drive again on EV! Overall the fix took me about 15 minutes (mostly due to my unfamiliarity working with FORscan and this was the 1st time I'd ever used the OBD system). The longest "wait" was to get my FORscan forum membership approved by one of their administrators, that took about 30 minutes from when I submitted my materials. So for about $21 (cost of OBD harness on Amazon) the car is working like new again. Ford (as others have noted) refuses to fix this (I wrote to them; cue the cricket sound in the background for the silence waiting for a reply!); they have a bulletin out that others have posted telling dealers to NOT do ANYTHING about this. I suppose even if I could have found a dealer to fix it the "stealership" probably would have charged hundreds for this (on my 2nd trip to the dealer the "service writer" said "the battery is fine," but "maybe the transmission is going, and those cost $10,000!"). I also submitted a complaint with NHTSA, which I encourage others to do, as well. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/ I doubt a class action suit, given "our" numbers, would do anything except cause a lot of frustration and if anything was "won," the lawyers would get most of it. But maybe if NHTSA was hit with dozens, hundreds, thousands of complaints they'd at least make Ford "squirm" a little. Ford isn't going to do anything on its own, as another post very wisely commented upon (old, out of production platform, low numbers, non-fatal (yet, anyway) issue; many of the engineers who worked on it may not even be w/Ford any more). It just takes a few moments to do this - please consider doing so. Seriously, it IS a safety issue with the adverse driving capabilities the cars have in this "mode." Allen84 - have you figured out anything about those other error messages? Will the car go through the periodic regeneration cycling (where the ICE runs for several minutes)? I have to give you a humble and most sincere THANK YOU for this. All of us owners have been damaged in one way or another, and you've found a way to restore (a) safety (I really feel that the cars are unsafe with this issue - hesitation, throttle lag, poor acceleration, etc.), (b) the gas mileage that we all paid Ford for "up front" in the cost of the battery pack and (c) resale value. Prior to the "fix" if I or any of us had wanted to sell the car the residual value realistically would have been damaged. I saw another post in which an owner had said the poor mileage was due to the cold. But you can't hide or "fib" the poor performance that the car exhibited. Best wishes to all! Good job, I'm glad you got your EV fixed. Yes, my car did go through a battery re-conditioning process approximately 5 months after I've applied the fix. (Time of re-conditioning may differ, as I'm not sure if it activates by way of distance travelled, time passed or the state of the battery the system may detect where it thinks it needs to run the process. But mine did it after 5 months). My car did go completely on ICE for around 20+ minutes or so (Yes, I had some concern when it happened, as I've thought my Fix went away lol, but it did finally go back to EV mode) The other error messages I have not figured out how to fix. I don't think there are any problems with leaving it as is. It might just be Forscan can't read it correctly or looking for a value that it can understand, but not sure. Edited February 23, 2020 by allen84 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I just filed a NHTSA complaint alleging a safety issue caused by reduced acceleration due to the Atkinson cycle engine not being designed to be unassisted in acceleration by the HVB as this OEM software operates. The next thing we can do is go to the automotive press like Consumer Reports and national newspapers like USA Today, the WSJ and NYT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 4 hours ago, lolder said: I just filed a NHTSA complaint alleging a safety issue caused by reduced acceleration due to the Atkinson cycle engine not being designed to be unassisted in acceleration by the HVB as this OEM software operates. The next thing we can do is go to the automotive press like Consumer Reports and national newspapers like USA Today, the WSJ and NYT. Lack of acceleration is not a safety defect. Cars in the late 70s and 80s we’re far slower. Why not just fix it with Forscan like everyone else? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogo88 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, akirby said: Lack of acceleration is not a safety defect. Cars in the late 70s and 80s we’re far slower. Why not just fix it with Forscan like everyone else? Most who have read these forums, and this thread have applied the fix or had help. But how many don't read these forums and go to the dealer for help? So far perhaps one or two dealers have offered to do the fix. Most try and upsell a new battery. And of course, no one is going to put that amount of money into a 10 year old car. My own situation was, I experienced the lack of EV on my 2010 back in the fall of 2018. I actually looked into getting Greentech to replace the battery at the tune of about $4k. But they used reconditioned batteries and not OEM which they said would drive up the price over double. The fix by ALLEN84 advertised now wasn't even known at that time by the folks on these forums. So I traded it in on a 2019 FFH Titanium rather then pumping $4k+ into a 10 year old car with no guarantee it would solve the problem. I believe if Ford is pushed to recognize and offer a solution to this issue it will help a lot of folks who do not read these forums. Just my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campenella Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Has anyone in the Milwaukee WI area tried this yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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