akirby Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 hours ago, dogo88 said: Most who have read these forums, and this thread have applied the fix or had help. But how many don't read these forums and go to the dealer for help? So far perhaps one or two dealers have offered to do the fix. Most try and upsell a new battery. Ok I'll buy that. Still not a safety defect though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadarbie Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I think it definitely is a safety issue. If there is an expectation of acceleration and it suddenly changes you can be expecting to clear an intersection, etc. This happened to me. An accident was avoided because the other driver was alert. Someone else may not be so lucky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I'm not so sure such a change in acceleration is not a safety issue. There were about 70,000 of these 2010-12 cars produced and I suspect only hundreds have been fixed due to this forum. I'm pretty sure all will be affected. The cessation of reconditioning associated with this EV limiting may actually be worse for the HVB than permitting it's normal use. I haven't heard of any other hybrids doing this. As a matter of fact Gen 1 Prii tested at 160,000 miles by the D.O.E. had over a 60% HVB battery capacity reduction yet their EV function and mileage remained the same. One minute full throttle performance should have been the only spec affected but they didn't test for that. The 2010 FFH had 8% capacity reduction at 160,000 miles. This is a 15 minute job for a dealer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFHybrid Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Can someone please generate a license key for me? I registered on Forscan over 24 hours ago and never received a confirmation. DM me and I will provide the necessary information from the Forscan tool which I've already installed. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverDave Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Allen, thank you. My 2010 Fusion had exactly this problem. I talked with the service manager at Phil Long Ford in Littleton CO and he agreed to look at your post on this Forum and the car. 20 minutes later, and $75, it was fixed. He was happy, said they had no idea about this fix, but that it worked great. I ordered the bbFly Pro OBD but after installing the first driver which wasn't easy I gave up on the second driver with a .ru in the url which comments on the web say is suspicious and is why I went to the dealer. Maybe an OBD with self installing drivers would have been a good idea. First time in my life I've left a service department with a smile. Don't have your email or PayPal would work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveMule Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 8:23 AM, FFHybrid said: Can someone please generate a license key for me? I registered on Forscan over 24 hours ago and never received a confirmation. DM me and I will provide the necessary information from the Forscan tool which I've already installed. Thanks Can someone do this for me as well? Not quite 24 hours but it's getting close and I'm anxious. Just wanted to add my thanks for this post as well. I was contemplating selling the car. I mentioned slow acceleration the last time I got my oil change and the mechanic didn't think anything was wrong. If this works, I'll be keeping it for a while. I absolutely think this should be a class action. I've changed the way I drive from a dead stop so I don't get T-boned. Apple got in trouble for slowing down old iPhones. Not the same but the argument that this could have been done to end life a battery is ridiculous. It's not as blatant like VW cheating emissions but crazy to lose hybrid ability because of a date. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwoody723 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Is this is all true, how is Ford not legally liable for programming in obsolescence into a hybrid vehicle without notifying all purchasers prior to the sale. This is different than engineering a part to wear out because one expects wear on a vehicle. You do not expect a vehicle to stop working because of a predetermined but undisclosed point on a calendar. Class action?? My 2010 Milan Hybrid no longer operates in EV mode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit10 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 My Milan Hybrid manufactured in 2/10 quit working last month with "the problem symptoms" as described by many. Before I had any idea as to what was wrong, assuming it probably was a bad sensor or electrical connection someplace, I called my 3 local dealers, one said to bring it in but it would have to sit there in line for two weeks before they could hook it up for a diagnostic. Another gave me an appointment for May. A third thought they could look at it in a couple of days. Meanwhile I found this forum. After a couple days, took it over to the third dealer. They looked at it that day and called me back. Quoting SSM 48238 they said they were instructed to "not attempt repairs at this time". So I got the car back with no charge for the diagnostic. Mechanic knew to look at the battery age but could not recommend any action but to wait on Ford ... admitting he didn't have any idea how long of a wait, but that Engineering was aware and investigating and to check OASIS. So I ordered a bbfly and installed Forscan under Windows 10. After a few attempts at getting a good connection thru the port (replugged it a few times and wiggled connections some) finally got a profile loaded. Many first attempts stopped at 9% to 20% doing the initial read. However finally, I was able to disconnect and reconnect several times in a row so figured must have cleaned the connection pins some how, or maybe marginal wires in the cable, or which of the 3 USB connectors I went to on the laptop, or because I unplugged the USB mouse and used the builtin mouse touch pad. Dunno. But was finally able to read the BECM a few times in a row as well as now successfully unplug and reconnect multiple times in a row with no more communication failures, so started to feel confident enough about the connection to try the reset. That worked flawlessly, got the "clunk from the trunk". Test drove. All is well working on electric again!!!!! THANK YOU TO THIS FORUM AND ESPECIALLY allen84 FOR THE FIX! When and IF Ford notifies me of an engineered fix, not sure what I will do. Maybe reset battery age back and take in in???? Dunno.... Hope others continue to post results here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, wwoody723 said: Is this is all true, how is Ford not legally liable for programming in obsolescence into a hybrid vehicle without notifying all purchasers prior to the sale. This is different than engineering a part to wear out because one expects wear on a vehicle. You do not expect a vehicle to stop working because of a predetermined but undisclosed point on a calendar. Class action?? My 2010 Milan Hybrid no longer operates in EV mode. Has it been established that this was programmed on purpose? Remember the Y2K frenzy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 The software function that reduces EV power is real. Whether it was intended to do that is unknown. That it reduces EV power after the hybrid warranty period is suspiciuous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan_OH Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 OK, here's another dilemma related to this....Ohio recently followed suit with other states and enacted an electric/hybrid fee because we're not paying our fair share of road tax (included in fuel cost). $200/electric and $100/hybrid annually...thanks Gov. Dewine. Notwithstanding, the merits of their actions, what if I had known about the battery reset issue, and unable to compel FMC to fix it. Should I still be subject to the additional tax? How would I prove to the state my hybrid is no longer behaving as intended? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Milan_OH said: OK, here's another dilemma related to this....Ohio recently followed suit with other states and enacted an electric/hybrid fee because we're not paying our fair share of road tax (included in fuel cost). $200/electric and $100/hybrid annually...thanks Gov. Dewine. Notwithstanding, the merits of their actions, what if I had known about the battery reset issue, and unable to compel FMC to fix it. Should I still be subject to the additional tax? How would I prove to the state my hybrid is no longer behaving as intended? Even if you could get anybody to listen, I think their reaction would be that it's your problem. As far as they're concerned, it's still registered as a FFH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 18 hours ago, wwoody723 said: Is this is all true, how is Ford not legally liable for programming in obsolescence into a hybrid vehicle without notifying all purchasers prior to the sale. This is different than engineering a part to wear out because one expects wear on a vehicle. You do not expect a vehicle to stop working because of a predetermined but undisclosed point on a calendar. Class action?? My 2010 Milan Hybrid no longer operates in EV mode. There is no way this was done on purpose. If it was there would be references to it in the owner's manual and TSBs for the dealership. And it doesn't render the vehicle obsolete or useless - just less fuel efficient. Having started my career as a software developer 33+ years ago, I can think of multiple scenarios as to why this happened. The people responsible are probably long gone. They may have put it in for testing but forgot to take it out. Or put it in as a temporary measure while they completed more long term testing and never went back and fixed it. That's probably why Ford is so reluctant to just change it without doing due diligence on why it was set that way to begin with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 hour ago, akirby said: There is no way this was done on purpose. If it was there would be references to it in the owner's manual and TSBs for the dealership. And it doesn't render the vehicle obsolete or useless - just less fuel efficient. Having started my career as a software developer 33+ years ago, I can think of multiple scenarios as to why this happened. The people responsible are probably long gone. They may have put it in for testing but forgot to take it out. Or put it in as a temporary measure while they completed more long term testing and never went back and fixed it. That's probably why Ford is so reluctant to just change it without doing due diligence on why it was set that way to begin with. It's been six months since they acknowledged it. If it was an oversight or temporary measure it should have been fixed by now. One poster had an official response from a dealer that said it was operating as designed and replacement of the HVB would solve it. I have been an advocate for this car almost as long as you, akirby but I will not give FMC the benefit of the doubt on this issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen84 Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 I'm actually curious or if anyone would like to try this. Who wants to set the battery age date to the 15th year? To try and see what message pops up on the dashboard, if any? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 hour ago, lolder said: One poster had an official response from a dealer that said it was operating as designed and replacement of the HVB would solve it. Official response from a dealer trying to sell a new battery pack not from Ford. And I agree they’re dragging their feet for whatever reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmayo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Well, got the equipment, software, and did the fix. YEAY!!! EV is back! Thanks!!! Local Ford dealer says Ford know about the problem, and even knows this fix, but refuses to allow dealers to do it, as they are not sure if it will be okay over time. They don't even let dealers tell customers how to fix it, or that it is an option. Liability? Well, I'm willing to try it to "get my car back" right. Shame on Ford, that they can't verify this or any fix. I'll never buy another Ford hybrid!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, wmayo said: Well, got the equipment, software, and did the fix. YEAY!!! EV is back! Thanks!!! Local Ford dealer says Ford know about the problem, and even knows this fix, but refuses to allow dealers to do it, as they are not sure if it will be okay over time. They don't even let dealers tell customers how to fix it, or that it is an option. Liability? Well, I'm willing to try it to "get my car back" right. Shame on Ford, that they can't verify this or any fix. I'll never buy another Ford hybrid!! Of course it's liability. What if they make the change and 1 year later your FFH catches on fire. You'd probably be first in line finding a lawyer to sue Ford. And I wouldn't necessarily blame you. That's why it's so difficult for Ford to make this change officially unless they know for sure why it was done originally and can test to make sure it won't cause problems years from now. Like I said before, it's Ford's responsibility that they're in this position but I'm guessing the resources that worked on Fusion and that hybrid system are either long gone or have been reassigned. What they should do is have the customer sign a liability waiver and let the dealers fix it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulGo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Because of the limited number of Ford hybrids sold during 2010 to 2012 (and the age of our vehicles) I believe Ford has given this a very low priority. Also Ford has severe financial difficulties and from what I have read they many face bankruptcy. So Ford just may not have the resources and hope the owners just give up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asicking Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 30 minutes ago, akirby said: Of course it's liability. What if they make the change and 1 year later your FFH catches on fire. You'd probably be first in line finding a lawyer to sue Ford. And I wouldn't necessarily blame you. That's why it's so difficult for Ford to make this change officially unless they know for sure why it was done originally and can test to make sure it won't cause problems years from now. Like I said before, it's Ford's responsibility that they're in this position but I'm guessing the resources that worked on Fusion and that hybrid system are either long gone or have been reassigned. What they should do is have the customer sign a liability waiver and let the dealers fix it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpete15312 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I have been reading this forum from start to finish while I was waiting for my equipment to arrive from Amazon. Will try the "fix" this weekend when the weather warms up a little here in the Minneapolis / St Paul MN area. Will let you know what happens. Just bought this 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 93,000 miles on it for $5500 from a private party. Thought even before I bought it that the seller knew of the underperforming EV /Hybrid system and did no know how to address the problem. I currently get 30MPG (disappointing) combined and the EV mode only comes on at a stop light and then disappears completely while driving. I can see the Hybrid battery system kicking in off and on as I go up and down hills and the battery itself stays almost always near the fully charged level. So that is why I ended up here as I knew that if the hybrid battery was nearly charged, why was it not being utilized. Then I found Allen's "fix" and now it seems to make sense. I will keep you all advised of my findings next week after i get the program uploaded from Forescan and the procedure completed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I don't know if the Ford Escape hybrids have this problem. There were about 250,000 of them built compared with 70,000 of out Ford, Lincoln, Mercury 2010-12 hybrids. There have been millions of Prii built and I haven't heard of them having the problem either. Ford is drowning in the DPS6 transmission problems. They no longer care much for the sedan market. Their investment in Rivian seems to be going very slowly as far as EV vehicle results are concerned. Aftermarket repair centers should be advertising this repair but the numbers of cars are very low and probably not on their horizon. It's an orphan. We discussed 10 years ago on this forum a possible Achilles heel of this car would be FMC's ability to service this high tech vehicle. I think a software repaired 2010-12 FFH is an extremely long lived desirable car. It has no weaknesses. Dirty throttle bodies, O2 sensors and electric vacuum pumps seem to be the only significant items but they are common to many older cars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Rivian partnership going slow? It was only announced a few months ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Almost eleven months. April 24, 2019. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurus Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 12:39 PM, lolder said: I don't know if the Ford Escape hybrids have this problem. There were about 250,000 of them built compared with 70,000 of out Ford, Lincoln, Mercury 2010-12 hybrids. There have been millions of Prii built and I haven't heard of them having the problem either. Ford is drowning in the DPS6 transmission problems. They no longer care much for the sedan market. Their investment in Rivian seems to be going very slowly as far as EV vehicle results are concerned. Aftermarket repair centers should be advertising this repair but the numbers of cars are very low and probably not on their horizon. It's an orphan. We discussed 10 years ago on this forum a possible Achilles heel of this car would be FMC's ability to service this high tech vehicle. I think a software repaired 2010-12 FFH is an extremely long lived desirable car. It has no weaknesses. Dirty throttle bodies, O2 sensors and electric vacuum pumps seem to be the only significant items but they are common to many older cars. You forgot HCU and ABS pump. Recall covers only up to 2010 MY. I had to pay $3,200 to fix that issue on my '11 Z Hybrid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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