eGuru Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 33 minutes ago, PaulGo said: I wish I knew more about how Ford will handle and resolve this but at least it appears they are working on a solution. It is a problem that should have never existed due to faulty (or lazy) programming on the many factors that should be taken into account on the aging of the HV battery. Ford will issue a recall and update the software and perhaps it will be partially effective to improve the performance of these vehicles. HOWEVER, I am willing to bet that the software update will permanently prevent the fix created by the user-community from being implemented. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 The original OEM software caused this problem. It reduced the HVB output power in 2 or 3 steps determined by age. It was either done intentionally or it was an unintended consequence. I suspect the former to keep the car from ever becoming Dead on the Road. There's no need for an engineering study, we know the cause, they know the cause. The HVBs seem to be holding up well. The DOE Idaho National Laboratories did accelerated use tests some years ago and the HVB was still in good shape at 160k miles ( https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/hev/batteryfusion4757.pdf ) but it was only one of two test cars. The other got totaled by a dump truck at about 74k miles. We will see. Don't hold your breath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen84 Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, eGuru said: Ford will issue a recall and update the software and perhaps it will be partially effective to improve the performance of these vehicles. HOWEVER, I am willing to bet that the software update will permanently prevent the fix created by the user-community from being implemented. Knowing Ford, They probably won't turn back the age of the battery back to year 0 or 1 as most have already had done if it were in a brand new condition. They will protect their asses once again, as they know it has been almost 10 years for the HVB and the current state that it's in. Would they honestly think that we would keep driving the car for another 10 years or more? For the most part, the engineering dept, would probably program the age to roll back 3-5 more years at the most to keep it from completely dying on you which will unable you to run the car. But can it really happen though?. They might think that this would be more than suitable enough to muster any more life out of the HVB before it is really recommended it starts to need replacing. Just like the oil change reminder, when reaching 10% oil life, instructing you to change oil soon, to 0% to "oil change required". They will possibly program in a similar message this time with something like "Replace HVB soon" to "HVB replacement required to optimize EV". So now owners won't be left in the dark wondering why their car's EV isn't working anymore, making trips to the dealership with no answers and wasted attempts and money in trying to figure it out with no answers. This is my guess as one of the probable outcomes. We are really in a dilemma here. Do we ignore Ford's message saying "Do not attempt any repairs at this time" and circumvent it ourselves to give us full new life out of the HVB? Or do we take on Ford's official fix, knowing they may full well reprogram the software, which might give you back a few more years of EV at most, before they start to force a message upon us basically saying: "Don't be a cheap ass, replace your HVB to get your EV back. You've driven the car for 13-15 years. Have you considered upgrading to our new 2023-2025 Energi model? Stop by our dealer today for more details" I really can't wait for what solution Ford will bring out. Aside from hoping that they will flat out come out and say, Free replacement of your entire HVB to our new and improved generation of battery cells. ( I wish...that would assure me to be a continued customer of their products), but we all know this would be the least likely of cases. Edited October 4, 2019 by allen84 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Ford's essentially getting out of the US sedan business anyway. I think they're desperately hoping Rivian will help them keep the truck market when it goes electric. I now have a Tesla Model 3. Everything else is now obsolete. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eGuru Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 7 hours ago, allen84 said: We are really in a dilemma here. Do we ignore Ford's message saying "Do not attempt any repairs at this time" and circumvent it ourselves to give us full new life out of the HVB? Or do we take on Ford's official fix, knowing they may full well reprogram the software, which might give you back a few more years of EV at most, before they start to force a message upon us basically saying: "Don't be a cheap ass, replace your HVB to get your EV back. You've driven the car for 13-15 years. Have you considered upgrading to our new 2023-2025 Energi model? Stop by our dealer today for more details" There won't be any need to contemplate whether to take on the Ford fix or not. Even if you don't submit your vehicle for the update when/if you receive the recall notice, you can be sure that they will implement the update whenever you bring in your vehicle for any service/recall work (related or not to the EV system). So if you don't want the Ford "fix" then never again bring your vehicle to a Ford dealer for service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 hours ago, eGuru said: There won't be any need to contemplate whether to take on the Ford fix or not. Even if you don't submit your vehicle for the update when/if you receive the recall notice, you can be sure that they will implement the update whenever you bring in your vehicle for any service/recall work (related or not to the EV system). So if you don't want the Ford "fix" then never again bring your vehicle to a Ford dealer for service. That's ridiculous. First of all, it won't be a recall since it isn't a safety or emissions compliance issue. Secondly, if you've ever actually tried to get a Ford dealer to update anything you'd understand how incredibly reluctant they are to touch anything unless they absolutely have to. They're only going to do things they are paid for, and being well out of warranty, they have 0 incentive to do this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Waldo said: That's ridiculous. First of all, it won't be a recall since it isn't a safety or emissions compliance issue. Secondly, if you've ever actually tried to get a Ford dealer to update anything you'd understand how incredibly reluctant they are to touch anything unless they absolutely have to. They're only going to do things they are paid for, and being well out of warranty, they have 0 incentive to do this. This thinking might stem from what Toyota did several years ago when Priuses were recalled to reflash inverter software and they also reflashed the PCM without telling owners. Owners then complained about a drop in MPG. But those cars were still under factory warranty. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/foreign/2018/02/20/prius-mileage/110640758/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhp Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) I joined this forum simply to thank the OP for detailing this fix. While researching any possible issues with the passenger airbag recall, I found a different thread that linked to this one and I am happy to report that these instructions have corrected the lack of Hybrid function in my 2010 Fusion hybrid. My hybrid was also running the ICE almost constantly and the HVB would fully charge and stay full as the electric function would never be utilized because the green battery availability meter showed less than 1 bar of power. The only way I could discharge the HVB was to drop the transmission into neutral and coast down hills to allow the accessories to slowly drain it back from full. Since I had to do the airbag recall at the dealership anyway, I asked the Suburban Motors Ford dealership in Victoria, BC Canada to also perform the battery age reset and if they needed me to provide any information from the Fusion forum to perform this service. They assured me a reasonable price and that they did not need any information. When I picked up the car after the recall work, they informed that there will be no charge for the battery age reset as they could not "figure out" how to do it. I ordered from Amazon the Veepeak OBDCheck MS USB adapter with HS-CAN and MS-CAN switch as it expressly said it works with windows 10. I simply plugged the unit into my Thinkpad and it immediately installed the drivers. Literally 4 minutes after plugging into the car and following the instructions, I heard a "clunk" from the HVB pack and I knew the battery age reset(reset to 0 years) was complete. My fusion hybrid rolled off the production line in April 2009 and it now has 133k km on it. I purchased this car used in Calgary in 2015 and the green battery meter now goes higher than when I first bought it. I have only ever had to fill it with gas and change the oil since I bought it and I am happy to have the hybrid function back and my battery now tries to stay at the 50% charge level as it should for the best HVB longevity. It is more than the 30% improvement in the fuel economy that I enjoy but the electric silence when driving slow in traffic or at stop lights. Since the Ford dealer in Victoria is not helpful, I am willing to help anyone in the Victoria area that needs help with this reset. Edited October 13, 2019 by Savhp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulGo Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Previous to setting my two 2010 cars with 47,000 miles each back to the one year mark mostly the only times my HV battery level would go into the mid-range level is with extended high speed driving ( over 50mph for over 20 minutes). The next day as it would warm up it would go back to the high setting. Now my cars still go to the high setting when warming up but after some use in local driving after it warms up it will go to the mid-rage area. I now get much better mileage with both cars (similar to when it was new). It appears even when driving in the ICE mode the electric engine is still contributing substantially. I can now press lightly on the accelerator, even accelerating and stay in the HV mode up to 47mph. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swechsler Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) Hey folks, I performed this service on my 2010 Fusion hybrid with 110k miles, and while it did improve things a little (in that I actually see the green EV graphic), I'm still unable to keep the car in EV mode unless I accelerate extremely slowly (i.e. slower than traffic behind me will permit) or use the cruise control above about 30 MPH (and then it's rare). I'm not a hypermiler but I also am familiar with how much energy is required for quick acceleration, and I think there still may be something wrong - I'm only seeing about 30MPG in a combination of around town and highway driving (in fact, I get significantly better mileage on the highway). Battery charge gauge almost never drops lower than about 5/8. Anything else I should try or check? Edited October 14, 2019 by swechsler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolder Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Can you confirm that you did in fact reset the HVB battery age to a low value? Sometimes software updates don't "take" if you miss a step and don't log out and then log in again to make sure the change has occured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan_OH Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 lolder makes a good point. In addition, I'd like to ask how long you've driven you 2010? Based on your comment about keeping in EV mode makes me wonder about your driving technique(s). Trying to accelerate from a dead stop in EV mode is not very useful or practical as you stated. The simplest hypermiling method for surface streets is; accelerate normally to something under 47MPH, then release the pedal until your EV meter shows availability, then press the pedal and "sneak-up" using the red line to the top of the EV green box. Assuming you have 50%+ SoC, and, on reasonable flat road, you should be able to stay in EV for a mile or more unitl the SoC drops. If you're not using the display below, switch to it. If you're never dropping below 5/8 SoC, then you're not using the HVB efficiently, or your HVB reset didn't reset. You should achieve MPG segments on surface streets well over 40 MPG. On my 13 mi daily commute on surface streets, I see 45+MPG easily. Good luck, Jack in Ohio 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 On 6/20/2019 at 8:21 AM, Milan_OH said: Thanks Allen84 and Milan_OH. Milan_OH fixed my software, exactly as you described. He set it to zero years, the top option. I was in the area he lived and he fixed it like in 10 minutes ! As soon as we drove it afterward it stayed in electric mode even going slightly uphill away from his house!. My FFH is running so much better now, goes into electric mode much easier and more often than it seems like it ever did before. My highway mileage is still 41 mpg, but I expect my around town mileage will significantly improve because without the electric mode, it had dropped down to like 35 mpg. Amazing the difference one line of software code can make! Allen and Milan, you have raised a lot of peoples standard of living, good job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneeyebear Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I can't believe that this worked. I noticed the issue just about a week ago and was frantically searching the internet for what the problem could be. I quickly became discouraged after finding reports of so many people stating that the dealership had no idea what was going on but still would charge around $500 or so for services to the battery that didn't provide a real resolution. I really believed I was going to need a new battery. Finally I came across this post from allen84. I followed all instructions and now my 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid is running like new again! I didn't even realize how much my vehicle had changed over time since I had first bought it, now it is staying in EV mode for so long again that I am able to get averages of 45 MPG. I fully expect that number to drop a few, but prior to the battery issue I was only able to get up to 36 MPG average and after the battery issue (beginning last week) I was only able to get up to 30 MPG average. I bought the Veepeak USB OBDCheck MS from Amazon and I used my laptop to connect with the trial of Forscan. Thanks so much Allen, you saved me so much time and money by discovering this fix. Also, its great Ford might have a fix upcoming for those people that don't find this post or are not able to do these repairs themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyross Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just wondering if there have been any indications that the 2013+ models are beginning to suffer from this? The oldest are hitting 7 years old now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkerflag_21 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I too just signed up so I can thank Allen 84 for this excellent thread. I really appreciated the one minute video about Forscan as I thought that was the hardest part of this whole thing. I had taken my 2010 Fusion to Ford in Northern BC a week ago to get the airbag done and to look into this very problem (wish I had looked here 1st so I could compare notes with the guy from Victoria,BC). They said they teched it for two hours and couldn't find any thing wrong with it . Suggested a rebalance or battery check of which they weren't equipped to do. At least I didn't get charged. Well needless to say I found this post in less than 5 minutes and it explained everything that was going on with my car. You would think Ford would do this too. Ordered scanner from Amazon and performed this yesterday. It worked great. I immediately heard the clunk as someone earlier described. Now it will drive in EV mode. I have used this forum before to solve the speedometer issue and will continue to check here 1st as things arise. Again thank you very much for this info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshs Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I am experiencing the same issue. I to live in Ohio. I am lost as to what all has to be done. I know step one is get the adapter. What exactly to I need to download and are there steps noted in whatever I download to reset the battery age? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asicking Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 It’s all in the original post to which you are commenting. Every detail, every step; it’s all there. This link should take you to it: https://www.fordfusionforum.com/topic/19361-my-instructions-on-restoring-the-hybrid-ev-function-on-the-ford-fusion-hybrid-approaching-the-89-years-mark/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan_OH Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Joshs, I'm in the Dayton area and willing to perform the reset for you. It's takes about 5 minutes. PM me. Thanks, Jack in Ohio 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormB Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Allen84 Rocks! Allen helped me reset the hybrid battery back to year 1 and bingo, the car runs like new again. I have a 2010 Fusion with 196K and the EV issues started in the fall 2018. Last winter was a gas-guzzling nightmare with the engine constantly revving and the EV battery constantly charged/charging (that was worrisome) except during continuous highway driving. I brought my car to Erinwood Ford in Mississauga twice - they also had the Service Manager drive it home over night, and after all this time and cost, I was advised "conditions are normal". Clearly they were not, but since the vehicle did not generate error codes, these guys can't fix what they cannot diagnose. I contacted Ford Canada on several occasions with zero help. In fact, I also notified them of the potential fix posted online and that is when all communication ended - Ford simply stopped responding to my emails. Less than 10 minutes with Allen and all is now back to normal driving. Nothing lasts forever, but it is obvious that continuously charging a fully charged battery and over revving an engine is not the way to mitigate safety concerns, so I challenge any claims that this fix compromises operational safety. It is simply planned obsolesce or a programming error. Either way Ford should 'fess up and rebuild customer trust. In the meantime... A BIG THANK YOU TO ALLEN84! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulGo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) I also applied the fix and I am very happy with the results. As long as the weather stays above 50 degrees I can get over 40 mpg in a mix of highway and city driving. Edited November 5, 2019 by PaulGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulGo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 4:56 PM, allen84 said: So Ford apparently will announce an official fix for this it seems: Oct 3 2019 8922 - 2010-2012 Fusion HEV, 2010-2011 Milan HEV, 2011-2012 MKZ HEV - Reduced ElectricVehicle Operation Some 2010-2012 Fusion hybrid electric vehicle (HEV), 2010-2011 Milan HEV and 2011-2012 MKZ HEV vehicles may experience reduced electric vehicle operation and increased gasoline engine operation. Do not attempt repairs at this time. Engineering is investigating, monitor OASIS for updates. Hopefully Ford is now working on a solution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshs Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Got mine done yesterday. Was a battle for a couple days but with allan84 help and extreme patience he figured out my obd interface was bad. Ordered a new one and following his instructions it took about 5 minutes. Drove about 6 miles home from my babysitters place and averaged 49.6mpg. Extremely happy and grateful for all he did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnesta Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Just did my 2010 fusion using Allen’s instructions. Wow finally got my car back. Month ago I took my car to ford to see if they would modify the BECM but they would not. Only suggestion they had for my sudden lost of Ev mode was to rebalance the battery, which I had them do along with air bag recall which did nothing, and that my Hvb is old so it would be needed to be replaced. So bought a ODB followed Allen’s post and back to 40 mpg. Other than little difficulty with downloading the FORScan software and getting the sequence of the switch right on the obd device it was a ten minute fix that the ford dealership should of been able to do. Their lost since it would of been another 150 bucks in their pockets. I have seen these ffh with over 300k miles so not sure the battery being old is a good excuse. Not sure what resetting the age is going to do in the future. Do notice that now the ICE turn on at a lower battery percentage than when it did before I lost the Ev mode. But I bought my ffh used do not know how it act when new. Think everyone who used this fix should send allen 20 bucks. Bet he could buy a new f350 if we did. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson16 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 5:45 PM, ICEY said: Thanks Allen, Thank you. Very informative, but I guess from what you describe this is only usable if a person has a laptop with MS Operating system and not Apple OS?? I have neither. If there is anyone having this Hybrid problem and in the San Jose, Calif. area and was able to do this procedure on their vehicle please contact me and maybe we can get together. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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