2010 Fusion "sloshing" sound when first driven

[snowshovel]

I got my car back today. And, my car got another purge again.

 

I talked to the gentleman who worked on my car. He told me that he tested my coolant water when the engine was both in cold and hot condition. There was NO comubstion gas in the system. Seems he was pretty sure about this. He also mentioned that he searched online to see how other dealers handled the problem a few days ago because of some other cars w/ the same problem sitting there. One dealer indicated that the bleed cap (or bleed screw, maybe the name is wrong. anyway, something like this) was not tightened properly. He checked my bleed cap and did find some moisture there. So, he did the purge process again, and then tightened the bleed cap. He claimed he did the same thing for some other fusions. So far, no customer got back to him yet.

 

He was so busy. No time to make me a copy of the repair receipt. They will mail me a copy later.

 

I'll keep watching the noise to see if the noise will get back like last time, and keep you guys informed.

 

Hopefully, the loose bleed cap is the root cause. Then, everybody here will be relaxed.

Edited March 10, 2010 by snowshovel

[bikrcoy]

The temperature has been in the 60's here the last several days. There is now only a faint hint of the sloshing sound...about 95% less than a couple of weeks ago. So, temperature does has an effect on this situation.

 

BTW...where is the "bleed cap/screw" located on the 4- cylinder Fusion?

[deo1929]

To be clear--you say no difference--but did you have the sound with 60 + degree temps and no heat on?

 

When my car was experiencing the symptoms, it didn't matter what the heat or AC mode was. Usually it was all off on the first start of the day until the engine warmed up or at the least, in defrost mode if the windows started to fog up. But it would make the sound when warm also....heat on or off....AC on or not. So from that standpoint, it didn't make any difference. It made the sound all the time.

 

When we bought the car, the temps were in the 60's during the day and 40's at night. It didn't make any sounds until the temperature dropped below freezing at night. Since we got the car back with the new engine 8 days ago, the lows have been in the mid to high 20's until yesterday when it was in the mid 30's. The car has been silent in regard to the coolant sound. It doesn't matter what the heat or AC mode is. It made it to 70 today and the low tonight is supposed to be in the high 30's. Unless something dramatic changes with the car, I don't expect any changes.

 

I hope this helps explain it.

[thunderstruck666]

I heard it tonight when I left work, as soon as I started the car. air temp was about 55 according to in car display, and car had sat all day.

[RickP]

As I said previously, my Sport model started making this noise in mid December when it turned colder here in Nashville and hadn't stopped yet when it went in for service 3 days ago. This noise occurred with or without the heater or air conditioner operating. Simply increasing the engine RPMs made it happen. No overheating, no leaking and the coolant level stayed within the warm and cold ranges. As the local temps have stayed above 50 degrees the noise is less noticeable.

[v8fusion]

This was a question my service department was very interested in. Will the sound go away with rising temperatures?

 

I am curious about the reason behind the recall of the heater core on fordparts.com. That's what it says when you look it up: "Part has been recalled."

 

Everybody....keep track of your waterfall effect and please update the thread if you notice less or no sound. On my car, I got it no matter what...heat off or on...Defroster off or on (AC linked defroster on the Fusion). Hot or cold. No difference.

 

So add your data as appropriate.

 

 

Dennis -

 

My Fusion is the same. The sloshing would occur no matter the setting of the HVAC system. On or off, hot or cold, AC or not, defroster or not, rear defroster or not (not sure that matters). The only thing that seemed to make it happen was a cold start on a cold day, and just intermittent until warm.

 

Since temps here in West Michigan have started approaching mid 50's (low's in the 20's) our garaged Fusion has almost completely stopped making the waterfall sound. My service advisor is currently contacting the Ford engineer, but I'm getting the sense that the engineer is waiting to make a move until he knows more. As I stated before, I really think this problem is going to disappear when late spring and summer temps roll around.....

 

Thanks, and keep the info coming.

 

-Aaron

[edfloridafusion]

Dennis -

 

My Fusion is the same. The sloshing would occur no matter the setting of the HVAC system. On or off, hot or cold, AC or not, defroster or not, rear defroster or not (not sure that matters). The only thing that seemed to make it happen was a cold start on a cold day, and just intermittent until warm.

 

Since temps here in West Michigan have started approaching mid 50's (low's in the 20's) our garaged Fusion has almost completely stopped making the waterfall sound. My service advisor is currently contacting the Ford engineer, but I'm getting the sense that the engineer is waiting to make a move until he knows more. As I stated before, I really think this problem is going to disappear when late spring and summer temps roll around.....

 

Thanks, and keep the info coming.

 

-Aaron

 

Hi Aaron,

 

The air conditioner is on all the time when my Fusion is driven. The only thing that changes is the temperature. Turn to the right to make it hotter and turn to the left to make it cooler. The waterfall (sloshing, gurgling) sound is always present until the engine warms up. The outside air temperature has no impact. I live in South Florida and we certainly don't get the lows that you get in West Michigan, but we are already seeing weather in the 60's and 70's and the sound does not go away even at those temperatures until the engine warms up. My Fusion is a 4-cylinder automatic, purchased in November of 2009, and it has just over 1100 miles.

 

Ed

[timwil56]

I picked up my car this morning. No sounds so far, temps in the low 40's. The invoice reads: Bleed cooling system per WSM 303-30A. I believe this is the standard manual procedure for bleeding the system. The Tech's notes read:

Test drove verified the concern. Nothing applicable on OASIS. Inspected the cooling system. System is full and there are no leaks found. Did online hotline contact. Hotline said to check for hydrocarbons in the cooling system. If none are found to bleed the cooling system as per the workshop manual. Checked for hydrocarbons, none found. Bled the cooling system per the workshop manual. Still not fixed. Bled the cooling system with the front end of the car in the air. Let it sit overnight with front end off ground. Test drove. Noise gone at this time.

I also had the grounding strap replaced and they replaced a leaking valve cover gasket. Hopefuly that's it for now, we'll see if it's fixed.

[wxmanrocks]

I picked up my car this morning. No sounds so far, temps in the low 40's. The invoice reads: Bleed cooling system per WSM 303-30A. I believe this is the standard manual procedure for bleeding the system. The Tech's notes read:

Test drove verified the concern. Nothing applicable on OASIS. Inspected the cooling system. System is full and there are no leaks found. Did online hotline contact. Hotline said to check for hydrocarbons in the cooling system. If none are found to bleed the cooling system as per the workshop manual. Checked for hydrocarbons, none found. Bled the cooling system per the workshop manual. Still not fixed. Bled the cooling system with the front end of the car in the air. Let it sit overnight with front end off ground. Test drove. Noise gone at this time.

I also had the grounding strap replaced and they replaced a leaking valve cover gasket. Hopefuly that's it for now, we'll see if it's fixed.

 

 

They did that to mine and as soon as I started the car to leave the dealership did it happen again. But mine was done in a couple hours - it did not stay up in the air overnight.

BTW-still waiting for the next move with my car. CS rep and service manager from my dealership seem to be waiting for more guidance from Ford/engineers.

 

Mark

[whitbma]

Deo,

When you got your fresh engine, was there any addtional coolant on the bill? Unless the tech goes to a lot of hassle, he canot get all the coolant out of the old block and would need to add addtional coolant when topping it off.

Here in Dayton, Ohio, the temp has been pretty warm the last few days and my sloshing is more like when I bought the Fusion last summer, minimal. I can make the noise by revving it, but it is nothing like when I posted the .wav file.

The oil sample from Cat came back fine with no trace of water or anitfreeze. The metals in the oil were what would be expected on a new engine. The coolant sample is due any day now. I will post both when I get them. The info is kind of neat.

 

Search on Google for ASTM tests of engine coolant. Very interesting, especially the "foaming" tests. Some coolants pass the foaming tests at high temps, but not at lower temps. Has there been any tests of the coolants other than for hydrocarbons? The only real variable seems to be the outside temperature. When I posted the .wav file, the noise was almost continuous at idle. Something is generating the "gasses/bubbles" but the amount changes with temps. The gasses/bubbles do not stay trapped in the heater core as most of the time there is no noise. I will wait to take mine in until the coolant test comes back. I am not ready to let the dash come out yet!! If my car was not under warranty, I would try another brand of coolant. Wouldn't it be neat to install a pc of clear tubing in the heater hoses to monitor the bubbles?

Whit

[deo1929]

Deo,

When you got your fresh engine, was there any addtional coolant on the bill? Unless the tech goes to a lot of hassle, he canot get all the coolant out of the old block and would need to add addtional coolant when topping it off.

Here in Dayton, Ohio, the temp has been pretty warm the last few days and my sloshing is more like when I bought the Fusion last summer, minimal. I can make the noise by revving it, but it is nothing like when I posted the .wav file.

The oil sample from Cat came back fine with no trace of water or anitfreeze. The metals in the oil were what would be expected on a new engine. The coolant sample is due any day now. I will post both when I get them. The info is kind of neat.

 

Search on Google for ASTM tests of engine coolant. Very interesting, especially the "foaming" tests. Some coolants pass the foaming tests at high temps, but not at lower temps. Has there been any tests of the coolants other than for hydrocarbons? The only real variable seems to be the outside temperature. When I posted the .wav file, the noise was almost continuous at idle. Something is generating the "gasses/bubbles" but the amount changes with temps. The gasses/bubbles do not stay trapped in the heater core as most of the time there is no noise. I will wait to take mine in until the coolant test comes back. I am not ready to let the dash come out yet!! If my car was not under warranty, I would try another brand of coolant. Wouldn't it be neat to install a pc of clear tubing in the heater hoses to monitor the bubbles?

Whit

 

 

Whit,

 

There is noting specifically listed on the invoice that shows coolant. There is a note that says, "Added necessary fluids." According to the maintenance schedule manual, the coolant is changed at 105,000 miles and 6 years...and then every 45K miles and 3 years after that.

 

The information on coolant is interesting, particularly the "foaming test." I wonder how that impacts air buildup in the cooling system and what precipitates foaming action. I'm going to look at that some more.

 

It sounds like good news so far on the fluid testing from CAT. Keep us posted. It all becomes pieces to the puzzle.

 

And "Red" is driving like the day we brought it home. Quiet! My wife is VERY HAPPY with the car once again...and averaging 33+ MPG.

[chriscard25]

Hello,

 

Update--yesterday was in the 60's again, and no noise.

 

Today started off in the 40's, and I heard it at startup and the 1st couple accelerations--very faint. It would not have even registered with me if I had not been specifically listening for it.

 

Couple of items I think I have gleened from this thread that I find interesting:

 

1. For most of us (not all), the sound seems to lessen with warmer temps coming from cooler temps (ambient).

2. A few of us have noted that extened trips at highway speed seem the get rid of the noise for a few days to a week.

3. The purge originally done by the dealer seems to have the same effect as the #2 above (for most of us).

4. We have seen this across mostly in the 4 cylinders, but maybe a 6 or two?

5. Hybrids seem to be effected the same as non hybrid. Being as the whole plumbing of the hybrid is different, I find this intriguing. The hybrid also uses a different cycle engine--since I am not a engine guy, I have no idea if that is just timing differences, or if it includes any meaningful engine differences.

6. A complete new engine seems to have worked for Danny, but without knowing what else was done/replaced (fluids, ect), during this process, we can not conclude the engine being the culprit at this point.

 

Please add!

 

Chris

[deo1929]

Hello,

 

Update--yesterday was in the 60's again, and no noise.

 

Today started off in the 40's, and I heard it at startup and the 1st couple accelerations--very faint. It would not have even registered with me if I had not been specifically listening for it.

 

Couple of items I think I have gleened from this thread that I find interesting:

 

1. For most of us (not all), the sound seems to lessen with warmer temps coming from cooler temps (ambient).

2. A few of us have noted that extened trips at highway speed seem the get rid of the noise for a few days to a week.

3. The purge originally done by the dealer seems to have the same effect as the #2 above (for most of us).

4. We have seen this across mostly in the 4 cylinders, but maybe a 6 or two?

5. Hybrids seem to be effected the same as non hybrid. Being as the whole plumbing of the hybrid is different, I find this intriguing. The hybrid also uses a different cycle engine--since I am not a engine guy, I have no idea if that is just timing differences, or if it includes any meaningful engine differences.

6. A complete new engine seems to have worked for Danny, but without knowing what else was done/replaced (fluids, ect), during this process, we can not conclude the engine being the culprit at this point.

 

Please add!

 

Chris

 

 

Good summary Chris. I'll also add the following....which has applied to my car before the engine replacement and I believe for everyone's cars with the condition....

 

There is no overheating.

There is no loss of coolant (leaks, drips, etc.)

There is no steam in the exhaust.

There is no contamination of the engine oil.

There is no change in engine performance. (no "missing", loss of power, etc )

There is only nominal pressure in the coolant recovery tank at normal operating temperature. (low coolant pressure)

There has been one cylinder head replacement, one complete engine replacement, and one heater core replacement (V6 engine)

 

In the fordparts.com catalog, the 2.5L engine long block is the same part number for the hybrid or gas. So the internals aren't different--the timing of the combustion process however is different.

 

Again, keep the information flowing, especially if you are able to reference any formal procedure #, TSB, etc. that other's can direct their dealers toward.

[whitbma]

Here is the result of oil and coolant analysis. Both appear normal. The oil is Mobil1 and the test was done around 5k on the oil.

Whit

Coolant Test .pdf

Oil Test .pdf

[timwil56]

Here is the result of oil and coolant analysis. Both appear normal. The oil is Mobil1 and the test was done around 5k on the oil.

Whit

What did it cost to find out all is normal?

[MRFFH]

Here is the result of oil and coolant analysis. Both appear normal. The oil is Mobil1 and the test was done around 5k on the oil.

Whit

Whit, was this test done by you or Ford?

Have you shown this to Ford?

Can Cat provide you with any universal averages?

Can ford provide you with any 2.5 l Data?

I am not an expert on Oli analsis but I test my Diesel oil regularly with Blackstone Laboratories.

And not trying to sound an alarm but with those low miles on the Full Synthetic oil I am surprised how high your copper parts and Silicon parts are.

I am not sure if that has anything to do with our dilema but High copper can be from a part wear and Silicon is usually dirt getting by the air filter or it can be some residue left from sand casted parts. either way with 10000 miles total I would think you are past the Break in time where these item will wear quickly then settle in.

Also from the notes Cat is reccomending changing the oil? If so I am confused I thought Mobil 1 synthetic should go longer than 5000 miles.

Anyway I would do another analysis 5000 miles after you change the oil also and compare.

Again I an not an expert and since there is no Coolant in your Oil it looks like you don't have a Head Gasket problem.

[MRFFH]

This Weeks update on the Sloshing in my Hybrid.

There is none the engineers have looked at it and have not found a solution and are still working on it.

Sorry I am not much help but this has them stumped too.

[whitbma]

Whit, was this test done by you or Ford?

Have you shown this to Ford?

Can Cat provide you with any universal averages?

Can ford provide you with any 2.5 l Data?

I am not an expert on Oli analsis but I test my Diesel oil regularly with Blackstone Laboratories.

And not trying to sound an alarm but with those low miles on the Full Synthetic oil I am surprised how high your copper parts and Silicon parts are.

I am not sure if that has anything to do with our dilema but High copper can be from a part wear and Silicon is usually dirt getting by the air filter or it can be some residue left from sand casted parts. either way with 10000 miles total I would think you are past the Break in time where these item will wear quickly then settle in.

Also from the notes Cat is reccomending changing the oil? If so I am confused I thought Mobil 1 synthetic should go longer than 5000 miles.

Anyway I would do another analysis 5000 miles after you change the oil also and compare.

Again I an not an expert and since there is no Coolant in your Oil it looks like you don't have a Head Gasket problem.

 

I do not have any averages. When you fill out the request forms, you list the model etc and the location where the oil came from. Cat will also check gear, trans and hydraulic fluids. I also was surprised at the levels of metals. I do not think this reflects on Mobil 1, but the wear particles from the engine. Too bad they cannot check the foaming specs of the coolant hot and cold.

The cost for the oil sample was about $19.00, both testswere about $44.00 with tax. You mail it off and they e-mail you the results. I will take mine in as soon as it cools back down outside. My sloshing noise is so much more quiet when it is warm, that it might not apear as a problem to a tech. Still thinking about "why". I do not think there is a bullet proof cause and solution yet. No sense taking things apart without a clear direction.

Whit

[wxmanrocks]

Got a call from the service manager at the dealership today. He said they found a car on the lot that is showing the same symptoms as mine and they are working with a field engineer to test proposed solutions. I asked him to be more specific on what solutions they were testing and he only really knew the first one, which involved looking at the high-side power steering hose as causing vibrations that in turn results in the noise I'm hearing (apparently when the system ramps up initially, there would be more vibration). Sounded hokie to me, but he stated that he worked for GM at for 10 years and had basically the same issue with a Tahoe (no year given) and the solution involved a vibrating hose (not necessarily the power steering hose-can't remember which one he said) being the culprit. I said oooooooooook--but to their credit, since they have a car on the lot that acts like mine, their not asking me to waste my time and money going there with my car until a solution is found.

I also mentioned to him what happened after a long trip (no sound for a day, then gradual noise return) and he said he hadn't heard that (though the engineer on this case is working with others in the country). My friend at work wondered if this could be something to do with only running short trips in the car and the inability to get to and sustain the optimum operating temperature, but I think others on this thread have longer roundtrips than I (10 miles) and still have to deal with the noise.

Anyway, just wanted to update folks on what's happening with me.

 

Mark

PS: Ford CS called me shortly afterwards saying they were trying to get an update from my service manager (not knowing I had just got a call from him--which I told her about), so both are trying, IMHO.

Edited March 12, 2010 by wxmanrocks

[xmech2k]

looking at the high-side power steering hose as causing vibrations

 

2010 Fusion has electric power steering, no hoses. ???

[snowshovel]

Sorry. just read your post. I've been driving my car for around 2 days after the 2nd purge. This afternoon, I heard a little waterfall sound again although it's very little. So, you don't need to know where the bleed cap/screw is. I'm pretty sure the noise will get louder and louder based on my experience after the 1st purge. Now, I've collected 2 docs (the 2nd one is still on the way). I'll go for state lemon law once I have 4 at hands for sure (state only needs 3). Really sick of the car now. Although it looks good, not worth the hassel!

 

The temperature has been in the 60's here the last several days. There is now only a faint hint of the sloshing sound...about 95% less than a couple of weeks ago. So, temperature does has an effect on this situation.

 

BTW...where is the "bleed cap/screw" located on the 4- cylinder Fusion?

[timwil56]

Day 2 of post purge. This morning leaving home and tonight leaving work I heard a gurgle for about one second upon initial acceleration on to the roadway, no sounds after that. Based on the fact that there were no hydrocarbons in the coolant, no coolant loss, no coolant in the oil and no steam from the exhaust I'm satisfied with the fix. I can live with the initial gurgle, maybe that's normal for this cooling system design. It's the constant sloshing sound under varying conditions that's not normal. I'm going to keep an eye on the coolant level, but as long as the sloshing sound doesn't return, I'm considering mine repaired.

[wxmanrocks]

2010 Fusion has electric power steering, no hoses. ???

 

I feel pretty confident that's what he said. Jeez--wish I had a recording of it.

 

Mark

[Rodeo]

2010 Fusion has electric power steering, no hoses. ???

The 3.5 liter Sport has conventional belt driven hydraulic power steering and the 3.0 and 4 cylinder have electric power steering.

All probably have hoses though, as even the electric driven is probably a hydraulic system, so would utilize hoses.

[chriscard25]

The 3.5 liter Sport has conventional belt driven hydraulic power steering and the 3.0 and 4 cylinder have electric power steering.

All probably have hoses though, as even the electric driven is probably a hydraulic system, so would utilize hoses.

 

Just to keep this thread as fact based as possible---My FFH that has EPS does not have any hydraulics at all related to power steering.

 

So the power steering hose theory is not a good one.