2010 Fusion "sloshing" sound when first driven

[wxmanrocks]

I'm not questioning your word, I'm saying the only time I hear it is after start up. I tried to reproduce the sound when the engine is warm by revving to around 2000 rpm's and no luck. I haven't noticed it while driving either.

 

Didn't take it that way--was just reiterating for anyone who may have missed my comments earlier so that they could see if it could be reproduced that way--makes it a lot easier to show the service department, that's for sure. Can't wait to put this problem in my rear view mirror.

 

Mark

[whitbma]

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I can reproduce the sound anytime. After I've been driving and it's nice and warmed up, I will turn it off, then turn it on again and there it is. Doesn't just have to be started when it's cold.

I can also hear fluid moving through the system when it is idling after I've been driving it--with the heater fan off I lean over the gear shift and there it is.

 

Mark

 

I would agree that I also can reproduce the sound. Anytime it is shut off for a few minutes, it will gurgle a little bit on restart. The noise is more pronounced when the car is accelerated. Just revving the car will also cause the gurgle, but not as loud. I have over 9k (I-4 engine) on the car, and I am getting used to the noise. It is funny to have a stranger in the car as they immediately mention the noise! If I listen closely, I can hear the gurgle anytime I accelerate. The coolant level has stayed steady since new. The car was built in July of 2009. I might get enough ambition to take it to the dealer and have them listen to it!

Whit

[deo1929]

I would agree that I also can reproduce the sound. Anytime it is shut off for a few minutes, it will gurgle a little bit on restart. The noise is more pronounced when the car is accelerated. Just revving the car will also cause the gurgle, but not as loud. I have over 9k (I-4 engine) on the car, and I am getting used to the noise. It is funny to have a stranger in the car as they immediately mention the noise! If I listen closely, I can hear the gurgle anytime I accelerate. The coolant level has stayed steady since new. The car was built in July of 2009. I might get enough ambition to take it to the dealer and have them listen to it!

Whit

 

Since I'm the one who started this whole thread, as far at the question of OAT (Outside air temperature) goes, we bought the car November 3 in Indianapolis. It was warm for the time of year--highs in the 60's low's in the 40s. We didn't notice it until December around Christmas when my wife mentioned it. The OAT was in the teens and 20's for a high. We did notice during a couple of days in January when the OAT was 45-50F that the sound was reduced quite a bit. So the operating temperature could be another variable to throw into the equation.

 

I do believe that all the cases, and correct the thread if I'm wrong, the sound is for the 2.5L engine only.

 

I'm glad I'm not driving a new Camry or Prius like my daughter and sister are respectively. At least this problem is not dangerous to our health!

 

Those of us with the issue need to keep this issue in front of Ford by taking our cars to the dealer, with multiple trips if necessary, to get a resolution to the situation.

 

I appreciate everyone contributing. Please keep us informed if there is any progress on your car or any news you hear about.

 

Thanks.

Dennis

Edited February 8, 2010 by deo1929

[whitbma]

If one goes to the Ford Parts web site, enter your VIN and pull up the HVAC section and you can a parts listing of the heater core. By accepting the plug in viewer, you can see the exploded assy. It is much easier to see how air will be trapped in the heater core as the hose connections appear to be lower than the top of the core itself. Also notice that the "part" has a recall notice. I am sure this is not a safety recall, probably a quality problem.

See: http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=%2bxbM4qroV4SuTzLD8quWmw%3d%3d&id=76334876&m=2&search=true

Whit

 

From the web page:

 

View

Image Part Name: Auxiliary Heater Core

Manufactured By: Ford

 

Part Description: Manual Air Conditioning ; Core And Seal Asy

 

Part Number: 18476

Price: $168.50 OR Select a dealer for their prices and availability Quantity: Add To Cart

 

Quantity Per Vehicle: 1

 

Package Quantity:

 

Weight: 6

 

ATTENTION:

 

 

THIS PART IS RECALLED.

[wxmanrocks]

If one goes to the Ford Parts web site, enter your VIN and pull up the HVAC section and you can a parts listing of the heater core. By accepting the plug in viewer, you can see the exploded assy. It is much easier to see how air will be trapped in the heater core as the hose connections appear to be lower than the top of the core itself. Also notice that the "part" has a recall notice. I am sure this is not a safety recall, probably a quality problem.

See: http://www.fordparts...m=2&search=true

Whit

 

From the web page:

 

View

Image Part Name: Auxiliary Heater Core

Manufactured By: Ford

 

Part Description: Manual Air Conditioning ; Core And Seal Asy

 

Part Number: 18476

Price: $168.50 OR Select a dealer for their prices and availability Quantity: Add To Cart

 

Quantity Per Vehicle: 1

 

Package Quantity:

 

Weight: 6

 

ATTENTION:

 

 

THIS PART IS RECALLED.

 

Nice catch, Whit--if I get a call from Ford CS, like I was led to believe I would this week, I will mention this to them and see if this recall is related.

 

Mark

 

Just got a call from Ford CS--once again, I am very impressed with CS. They are working with the dealership and checking if they feel that a field engineer needs to investigate. If so, Ford will send one there--if not, they will consult with the service techs as they are working on it--part of the determination to be made is if this sound is normal (no way). They said they will get me a loaner, should I decide to leave it there and are looking to see if Ford can extend my warranty. She said that I will be getting a call back no later than 5pm tomorrow to tell me what will be happening next.

I mentioned the part recall and she noted it for them to look into it further.

 

Mark

Edited February 8, 2010 by wxmanrocks

[whitbma]

Nice catch, Whit--if I get a call from Ford CS, like I was led to believe I would this week, I will mention this to them and see if this recall is related.

 

Mark

I am interested in the fix the Ford rep comes up with. Given the shape of the heater core and tubes, I see why they are trying to raise the front of the car to give the trapped air a place to go. If one was to drain the cooling system, engine and suck all the coolant out of the heater core, and then pull a vacuum on the system before refilling, that should eliminate the air lock in the core. I would attempt a repair like this.

If it is not a long term problem, I am more inclined to ignore it before I would want a tech tearing out the dash to get at the heater core. The A/C would have to be drained and connections left open during the repair. Some techs do not go the extra mile and cap off the open A/C lines while making other repairs. It does not take long for the dryer to suck up a lot of moisture out of the air. The results of this (corrosion in system) would not be apparent for a long time.

Whit

[wxmanrocks]

I am interested in the fix the Ford rep comes up with. Given the shape of the heater core and tubes, I see why they are trying to raise the front of the car to give the trapped air a place to go. If one was to drain the cooling system, engine and suck all the coolant out of the heater core, and then pull a vacuum on the system before refilling, that should eliminate the air lock in the core. I would attempt a repair like this.

If it is not a long term problem, I am more inclined to ignore it before I would want a tech tearing out the dash to get at the heater core. The A/C would have to be drained and connections left open during the repair. Some techs do not go the extra mile and cap off the open A/C lines while making other repairs. It does not take long for the dryer to suck up a lot of moisture out of the air. The results of this (corrosion in system) would not be apparent for a long time.

Whit

 

 

Whit,

I take it you know a little about the HVAC system in a car and just in general. I copy and pasted the above comment in a Word document, so that I can refer to it if/when they come back with a recommendation on what they will be doing to try and repair it. I really don't want the dash taken apart--that's for sure, and all the time I've been dealing with this it's been my hope to avoid that kind of repair. Keeping my fingers crossed it can be resolved in some other manner.

Thanks for your input.

 

Mark

[noreast]

...

So far, here's what I know for sure...

 

* There is no coolant leak. Nothing is dripping under the car and the coolant level in the reservoir is the same when cold for the last 2000 miles since the problem surfaced.

 

* There is no coolant in the oil. Oil level is the same and no other fluids present.

 

* There is no coolant making it into the combustion chamber. Exhaust is clear after reaching normal operating temperature.

 

* The engine is not overheating and the heater is providing consistent heat.

 

* The cooling system must have no air leaks to the reservoir as the coolant rises about 1/2-1" when warm and then goes back to the line at ambient temperature. This has been constant over the last 1000 miles.

 

* The car has been "burped" with no noticeable change.

 

* The problem seems less pronounced when outside temperatures are above 45-50F.

 

The car is scheduled to go back in on Wednesday. The last time in, they isolated the heater core and there was no sound. Makes sense as you're not pushing the air bubble through the heater core. I'm not sure what the next step is, but like a few others, I will keep everyone up to date.

 

The car is darn near perfect....except for my waterfall. Maybe I should put in a 7" screen with a waterfall video to accompany the sound.

 

I am no mechanic by any stretch of imagination, but folowing a process of elimination, did anybody look into the A/C system? I believe the Fusion, like many modern cars, uses the A/C compressor to remove the moisture from cabin air, especially when defogging the windshield. Is the A/C system beyond doubt in this matter?

Could this be a build up of A/C related condensation that finds its way into a cavity in the engine compartment? Just food for thought...

Edited February 9, 2010 by noreast

[deo1929]

I am no mechanic by any stretch of imagination, but folowing a process of elimination, did anybody look into the A/C system? I believe the Fusion, like many modern cars, uses the A/C compressor to remove the moisture from cabin air, especially when defogging the windshield. Is the A/C system beyond doubt in this matter?

Could this be a build up of A/C related condensation that finds its way into a cavity in the engine compartment? Just food for thought...

 

 

 

It occurs with the HVAC system off, which should eliminate the AC side. I did look at the exploded view of the HVAC system on the Ford parts website. The evaporator looks like it sits in front of the heater core between the heater core and the firewall. I can make the sound by pushing the clutch in and revving the engine to 2000 rpm. The dealer did isolate the heater core (bypassed it) on the last visit. The noise went away. So it's most likely in the cooling system.

[snowshovel]

Hello, Folks,

 

I just got a new Fusion S with a 4-cyl engine. I drove the car back home from dealer's parking lot w/ radio on (I ordered a incoming car). I'm stupid. Only 8 miles on it at the moment. And, the 2nd day, I heard the sloshing sound. I brought the car back in for a check today. They told me that I need to leave the car overnight when is convenient. The car needs to be vacuumed purge with the front of the car elevated. I found this forum by searching online. It seems that this method is useless.

 

I also asked them if there is a recall for this issue. I was told it's the first time for them to be aware of this issue, and I was told the problem won't hurt the car.

 

The dealer has a good reputation. They can give me a loaner car. However, I'm hesitating if I need to make an appointment with them after reading all the posts here.

 

Thanks for you guys inputs. I'll send a link of this website to the dealer first.

 

Snowshovel

[deo1929]

Hello, Folks,

 

I just got a new Fusion S with a 4-cyl engine. I drove the car back home from dealer's parking lot w/ radio on (I ordered a incoming car). I'm stupid. Only 8 miles on it at the moment. And, the 2nd day, I heard the sloshing sound. I brought the car back in for a check today. They told me that I need to leave the car overnight when is convenient. The car needs to be vacuumed purge with the front of the car elevated. I found this forum by searching online. It seems that this method is useless.

 

I also asked them if there is a recall for this issue. I was told it's the first time for them to be aware of this issue, and I was told the problem won't hurt the car.

 

The dealer has a good reputation. They can give me a loaner car. However, I'm hesitating if I need to make an appointment with them after reading all the posts here.

 

Thanks for you guys inputs. I'll send a link of this website to the dealer first.

 

Snowshovel

 

 

I think there are 2-3 of us who have been dealing with this problem for the past 2-3 months, including working with our dealer. I would encourage you to push the dealer on the issue. Let them do their vacuum purge, especially if they give you a loaner. That way, they can "cross that off their list" of things to do and give feedback to Ford corporate. Maybe they will get the idea that the vacuum purge isn't the solution and look elsewhere.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are the last 6 numbers of your VIN? I'm interested to find out when the Fusions with the problem were made. Mine is a mid-June build that I bought in November. The VIN digits for my car are 168566. I don't know what the starting VIN was....such as 000001 or 100001. But if your's is in the 210K to 220K range, it will be a late 2009 build, which says Ford has 5 months of production and hasn't fixed the problem. Of course, as I've said in prior postings, this is the first "cold season" for the 2nd gen Fusion.

[who]

My Vin is 175579 and I do not have the waterfall sloshing sound.

[wxmanrocks]

I think there are 2-3 of us who have been dealing with this problem for the past 2-3 months, including working with our dealer. I would encourage you to push the dealer on the issue. Let them do their vacuum purge, especially if they give you a loaner. That way, they can "cross that off their list" of things to do and give feedback to Ford corporate. Maybe they will get the idea that the vacuum purge isn't the solution and look elsewhere.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are the last 6 numbers of your VIN? I'm interested to find out when the Fusions with the problem were made. Mine is a mid-June build that I bought in November. The VIN digits for my car are 168566. I don't know what the starting VIN was....such as 000001 or 100001. But if your's is in the 210K to 220K range, it will be a late 2009 build, which says Ford has 5 months of production and hasn't fixed the problem. Of course, as I've said in prior postings, this is the first "cold season" for the 2nd gen Fusion.

 

 

My last 6 are 250202--and of course with sloshing everyday.

[snowshovel]

I think there are 2-3 of us who have been dealing with this problem for the past 2-3 months, including working with our dealer. I would encourage you to push the dealer on the issue. Let them do their vacuum purge, especially if they give you a loaner. That way, they can "cross that off their list" of things to do and give feedback to Ford corporate. Maybe they will get the idea that the vacuum purge isn't the solution and look elsewhere.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are the last 6 numbers of your VIN? I'm interested to find out when the Fusions with the problem were made. Mine is a mid-June build that I bought in November. The VIN digits for my car are 168566. I don't know what the starting VIN was....such as 000001 or 100001. But if your's is in the 210K to 220K range, it will be a late 2009 build, which says Ford has 5 months of production and hasn't fixed the problem. Of course, as I've said in prior postings, this is the first "cold season" for the 2nd gen Fusion.

 

The last 6 digits of my VIN # is 295285. I don't know what the mechanic did on my car yesterday. The sloshing noise is very very low now. I hardly noticed it if I don't pay attention to it. The noise was pretty loud yesterday (Just like the sound from a faucet). I did hear a big running engine sound when my car was in the workshop. The mechanics might hit the gas pedal to make the engine run over 3000 rpm to purge. There are a few cars inside the workshop at the moment though. So, I'm not sure whether the sound was from my car. Anyway, I'll drive the car for a few days to see if the problem will disappear. If not, I'll definitely make an appointment with them and let you guys know.

Edited February 10, 2010 by snowshovel

[bikrcoy]

My VIN is 205038 and I'm getting the sloshing as noted in my previous posts.

 

Lately, I've been noticing the sloshing more. I've decided to give the radio a rest and just focus on the "waterfall" for a while. One thing that I didn't notice before is that I can definitely hear the sloshing sound at park. I thought that I had to be accelerating in drive to hear the problem.

 

Tomorrow morning I'm going to start the car and let it idle for about 10 minutes before I drive away. I want to hear if the sloshing is there after the engine is completely warmed up. It's been noted that the sloshing sound occurs when the temperature is below 50 degrees.

 

Let's keep this thread going!

Edited February 10, 2010 by bikrcoy

[deo1929]

My Vin is 175579 and I do not have the waterfall sloshing sound.

 

 

Who, I see you live in the southeast US. What's the coldest it's been where you live? I wonder if when the temps start rising where I live, it will disappear in the spring and come back in the fall when it's back around freezing. Very curious.

[deo1929]

The last 6 digits of my VIN # is 295285. I don't know what the mechanic did on my car yesterday. The sloshing noise is very very low now. I hardly noticed it if I don't pay attention to it. The noise was pretty loud yesterday (Just like the sound from a faucet). I did hear a big running engine sound when my car was in the workshop. The mechanics might hit the gas pedal to make the engine run over 3000 rpm to purge. There are a few cars inside the workshop at the moment though. So, I'm not sure whether the sound was from my car. Anyway, I'll drive the car for a few days to see if the problem will disappear. If not, I'll definitely make an appointment with them and let you guys know.

 

 

Snowshovel, I take if by your username that you live in a cold climate. Keep track of the temp and when our waterfall effect happens. I'm still trying to sort out how the variation in outside temperature can affect the system.

[whitbma]

I am too sorry to go find the insurance card or walk outside to get the VIN. I do know the car was built and I took delivery in July 2009.

The dealer who got me the new style ground strap (starting issue) told me the build date.

Also, if the car is warmed up to melt the ice off the windshield in the morning, the sloshing is reduced when I leave. I can hear the sloshing anytime, even at a light. Put it in neutral, snap the throttle and presto!

Whit

[who]

Who, I see you live in the southeast US. What's the coldest it's been where you live? I wonder if when the temps start rising where I live, it will disappear in the spring and come back in the fall when it's back around freezing. Very curious.

 

Its actually been unseasonably cold here in FL. We had a week long cold snap down to the low 40's for a week and I did not here the sound. This am it is 40F. and the forecast calls for two or three days of the same. I will take special note of the sound for my fellow "fusionist." Get back to you later.

[deo1929]

Well, it keeps getting better. My wife took the car on a 250 mile trip on Sunday afternoon. Since the trip, the waterfall has dropped off to a trickle. I dropped it off at the dealer this morning. When I went to pull it in to the service department, I killed it. When I went to restart the engine, the starter wouldn't disengage and the car wouldn't start! It happened 3 times in a row before it finally started. The good news is that the service guys saw and heard it happen. So now they are chasing down 2 problems. There's another thread for the no-start issue. But I thought it was "interesting" that this has taken place.

 

Anyone else have this happen in addition to the lovely waterfall?

[whitbma]

Well, it keeps getting better. My wife took the car on a 250 mile trip on Sunday afternoon. Since the trip, the waterfall has dropped off to a trickle. I dropped it off at the dealer this morning. When I went to pull it in to the service department, I killed it. When I went to restart the engine, the starter wouldn't disengage and the car wouldn't start! It happened 3 times in a row before it finally started. The good news is that the service guys saw and heard it happen. So now they are chasing down 2 problems. There's another thread for the no-start issue. But I thought it was "interesting" that this has taken place.

 

Anyone else have this happen in addition to the lovely waterfall?

 

Have them see TSB-09-19-1 that fixed my occasional no start. The new ground strap has a capacitor in-line and mounts in place of the old ground strap at the RH strut tower. The part number of the new strap is AE5Z-18801-A. This fix only applies to I-4 engines built before July 31 2009 or so.

[svtenthusiast]

Are only owners with the 2.5L engine experiencing this sound, any 3.0L or 3.5L problems?

 

I haven't heard this sound on my car with the 3.5L, it seems to be limited to the 2.5L. One thing to note, if the heater core part is the problem, is the heater core different between engines?

 

To the people that can't beleve there is this type of sound on a new car, that's the one downside to having such a quiet cabin environment. Every car has operational noise, usually it gets drowned out by road or engine noise. But it still needs to be resolved.

[deo1929]

I haven't heard this sound on my car with the 3.5L, it seems to be limited to the 2.5L. One thing to note, if the heater core part is the problem, is the heater core different between engines?

 

To the people that can't beleve there is this type of sound on a new car, that's the one downside to having such a quiet cabin environment. Every car has operational noise, usually it gets drowned out by road or engine noise. But it still needs to be resolved.

 

 

Interesting thought on a different heater core. I did look up the heater core for your Sport and it is the exact same part number as an I-4. There must be some difference between the 4 and the 6 that makes the I-4 more susceptible to air getting trapped in the cooling system.

 

What is really making me wonder that there's something in the system that's affected by temperature. The warmer it gets outside, the less the sound. The colder it gets, the louder and more frequent. This should be driving the QA engineers nuts troubleshooting it.

[snowshovel]

Yes, I live in Mass. I always can hear the waterfall sound whenever I hit the gas or brake pedal. The only difference was that, I felt, water flowed toward me when I hit the gas pedal and water flowed to the front end when I hit the brake pedal. Sounds like a bad design for the pipe line system. I guess there is a bend where the flow speed will be significantly reduced to induce the sound and air is easily trapped there. If I accelerate/decelerate the car slowly and smoothly, the sound would be quite low. This sound is pretty annoying though. No complain for fusion except this.

 

Snowshovel, I take if by your username that you live in a cold climate. Keep track of the temp and when our waterfall effect happens. I'm still trying to sort out how the variation in outside temperature can affect the system.

[bikrcoy]

OK...this morning I started my car in the garage where the temperature was 42 degrees. I let the car idle for 10 minutes until the temp gauge showed a completely "warmed-up" engine. I then drove off as usual. There was no difference in the sloshing sound.

 

Now that I am focusing on the "waterfall" sound I'm realizing that the sound is really there all the time, even after a 20 minute drive on the highway.

 

So, I guess once air is trapped in the heater core it is going to stay there! That's actually probably OK since we don't really want the air-bubble to move...unless, of course, it moves out of the system.

Edited February 11, 2010 by bikrcoy