Questions Regarding Placing Vehicle Order

[texlaker]

Hi all.

 

I recently joined this forum as my wife and I are seriously considering purchasing a Ford Fusion Hybrid or its cousin the Mercury Milan Hybrid. (The wife prefers the Milan Hybrid whereas I am somewhat undecided between the two). In any event, regardless of which vehicle we choose to go with we do have a consensus on our preference to place an order for the vehicle rather than purchasing the dealer stock. Our prior two car buying experiences consisted simply of purchasing the dealer stock so we are somewhat apprehensive about the whole ordering process. I'd rather have as much info as possible on the process before raising it with the dealership because I don't want to seem like a lemming ready to be exploited based on my ignorance. Therefore, if possible, I'd like to solicit some info from you guys and gals on the whole ordering process. For example, I understand from viewing the posts here that there is a deposit required to place an order. Can anyone tell me the amount of the deposit? Does the amount of the deposit vary if it is Ford or Mercury vehicle? Is the deposit refundable? Is there a sales contract executed at the time of the order and submission of the deposit? Is there a difference in users' perception of the willingness of dealers to negotiate on the price if it is a stock vehicle as opposed to an order? How long is the expected production and delivery dates for the hybrids - any difference between Fusion and Milan?

 

Thanks in advance for any responses to my questions. My wife and I are very excited about this whole process and we certainly would appreciate any input to assist in our decision making process.

Edited April 26, 2010 by texlaker

[fsb99]

Hi all.

 

I recently joined this forum as my wife and I are seriously considering purchasing a Ford Fusion Hybrid or its cousin the Mercury Milan Hybrid. (The wife prefers the Milan Hybrid whereas I am somewhat undecided between the two). In any event, regardless of which vehicle we choose to go with we do have a consensus on our preference to place an order for the vehicle rather than purchasing the dealer stock. Our prior two car buying experiences consisted simply of purchasing the dealer stock so we are somewhat apprehensive about the whole ordering process. I'd rather have as much info as possible on the process before raising it with the dealership because I don't want to seem like a lemming ready to be exploited based on my ignorance. Therefore, if possible, I'd like to solicit some info from you guys and gals on the whole ordering process. For example, I understand from viewing the posts here that there is a deposit required to place an order. Can anyone tell me the amount of the deposit? Does the amount of the deposit vary if it is Ford or Mercury vehicle? Is the deposit refundable? Is there a sales contract executed at the time of the order and submission of the deposit? Is there a difference in users' perception of the willingness of dealers to negotiate on the price if it is a stock vehicle as opposed to an order? How long is the expected production and delivery dates for the hybrids - any difference between Fusion and Milan?

 

Thanks in advance for any responses to my questions. My wife and I are very excited about this whole process and we certainly would appreciate any input to assist in our decision making process.

 

UPDATED to finish my thought on one of the questions - got distracted

 

Can anyone tell me the amount of the deposit? Probably dealer dependent - mine was $500, maybe some wants $1000

Does the amount of the deposit vary if it is Ford or Mercury vehicle? - maybe more dealer dependent

Is the deposit refundable? Yes, but get it in writing. I did and they have no problem with that. One other dealer I went to wanted $1000 non-refundable - I didn't go with them

Is there a sales contract executed at the time of the order and submission of the deposit? No, but you have the price negotiated already and get it in writing. They need your driver's license, credit report and deposit

Is there a difference in users' perception of the willingness of dealers to negotiate on the price if it is a stock vehicle as opposed to an order? Maybe, depending on how market conditions are. My order did not count towards allocation so they were willing to give me better pricing.

How long is the expected production and delivery dates for the hybrids - any difference between Fusion and Milan? Milan may have longer lead time - more limited and probably production schedule impacted

 

I have had the FFH for almost 1 year with no real issues. Some minor (appear to be software) glitches I've mentioned here, but nothing to be too overly concerned about.

Edited April 26, 2010 by fsb99

[bbf2530]

Hi all.

 

I recently joined this forum as my wife and I are seriously considering purchasing a Ford Fusion Hybrid or its cousin the Mercury Milan Hybrid. (The wife prefers the Milan Hybrid whereas I am somewhat undecided between the two). In any event, regardless of which vehicle we choose to go with we do have a consensus on our preference to place an order for the vehicle rather than purchasing the dealer stock. Our prior two car buying experiences consisted simply of purchasing the dealer stock so we are somewhat apprehensive about the whole ordering process. I'd rather have as much info as possible on the process before raising it with the dealership because I don't want to seem like a lemming ready to be exploited based on my ignorance. Therefore, if possible, I'd like to solicit some info from you guys and gals on the whole ordering process. For example, I understand from viewing the posts here that there is a deposit required to place an order. Can anyone tell me the amount of the deposit? Does the amount of the deposit vary if it is Ford or Mercury vehicle? Is the deposit refundable? Is there a sales contract executed at the time of the order and submission of the deposit? Is there a difference in users' perception of the willingness of dealers to negotiate on the price if it is a stock vehicle as opposed to an order? How long is the expected production and delivery dates for the hybrids - any difference between Fusion and Milan?

 

Thanks in advance for any responses to my questions. My wife and I are very excited about this whole process and we certainly would appreciate any input to assist in our decision making process.

 

EDIT - I began typing my reply before fsb99 had posted, so some of my answers are now repetitive. Darn typing skills!

 

 

Hi texlaker. :D Okay, I will try to answer what I can. However, first I would recommend visiting a professional car buying site, such as Edmunds, KBB etc, to research your questions. After all, better to listen to the advice of professional as opposed to Internet strangers. Another option would be to make use of car buying services, like those offered by AAA, Costco and others like them.

 

That being said, here is one Internet strangers answers/recommendations/advice:

- Deposits? The amount required will vary from Dealer to Dealer. Some will not even ask for one, others will take as much as you will give, up to the full price of the vehicle. It all depends on the honesty of the Dealerships and the car buying knowledge of the customer. You should give no more more than a $500 deposit, when push comes to shove.

- The deposit amount does not vary according to your choice of Ford or Mercury, it will vary according to the variables stated above.

- Refundable or not? That will also vary according to the contracted agreement. You should always have the contract written so that any deposit is refundable. And considering the fact that you are ordering a high demand vehicle which the Dealer should have no problem selling either way, you should certainly have the contract written so that the deposit is refundable. However, keep in mind that assuming there are no problems with the car when it arrives, the Dealer is also trusting you to purchase what you ordered. So be sure you are ready to buy before ordering.

- Is there a Sales Contract written beforehand? Never hand anyone money for a car unless you have a completed Sales/Purchase Agreement outlining the final sale price, all applicable fees and charges etc. etc.. The only variable will be any applicable Incentives and Rebates, since they are normally based on the actual purchase date (when the vehicle arrives), not the order date.

- Willingness of dealers to negotiate on the price if it is a stock vehicle as opposed to an order? Again, depends on the Dealer and the negotiating skill of the buyer. The Dealers/Salesman's goal is to make as much money off the sale as possible. It is what they do to feed their family. Your job is to do your homework and try to get the best price possible. Obviously, these two goals conflict. In most cases, an educated buyer can get a better deal on a Factory Ordered vehicle. In other cases, they may be able to get a better deal on a model that has been sitting on the lot for a while that the Dealer is dying to get rid of. IN the case of the Hybrids, neither case really applies. It is a high demand, low supply vehicle, so you just need to go in knowing the MSRP, Invoice, Dealer costs etc of the vehicle you are interested in and negotiate until you are happy with the deal.

- Expected order to delivery dates? It will depend on Factory scheduling, time of year, Dealer allotment of the Dealer you finally choose, the alignment of the stars, what time high tide was the morning you order etc etc.. You will get a dozen answers here and none will be valid for anyone other than the person who gave it to you. One person will tell you they ordered one and got it in 5 weeks. Another will tell you 5 months. They will both be telling the truth, but their experience will not apply to you anyway, so it does not matter. In the end, there are just too many variables. You need to ask the Dealers you are thinking of buying from what their expected delivery time currently is., and even those dates will need to be taken with a grain of salt. If time is important to you, I would advise you have hard date written into your Purchase Contract which allows you to back out of the purchase and get your deposit back if the vehicle is not delivered in that time period. That hard date will help to keep the Dealer honest on their projected timetable.

- Any delivery difference between the Fusion/Milan? Yes, but it will not be predictable by any on us as to which will be quicker at any particular time. Just impossible for anyone other than a Dealer to tell you, and even many of them will not give a straight answer.

 

I know many of these may seem like "non-answers", but they really are the answers. Your best course of action is simply to decide which car you prefer (Fusion or Milan), do your homework on pricing and new car buying/negotiating tactics. Then shop around at several Dealers to get your best deal.

 

Let me add that I agree completely with you decision to Factory Order as opposed to buying off the lot. I have Factory Ordered every car I have ever purchased (quite a few since 1975). You will get the exact car you want without settling. You will get the colors (interior/exterior) you want, with no extra options and no missing equipment. You can be confident that your new car was not sitting on the lot for 6 months and was not test driven/abused by God-knows-who in the meantime. Also,if applicable, it gives you time to sell your used car privately for a better price than trading it in. And if you can not sell it privately, you can still trade it in.

 

Anyway, hope some of this information helps.

 

I hope your buying process goes smoothly and you get your car as soon as possible.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited April 26, 2010 by bbf2530

[sullied]

Hi all.

 

I recently joined this forum as my wife and I are seriously considering purchasing a Ford Fusion Hybrid or its cousin the Mercury Milan Hybrid. (The wife prefers the Milan Hybrid whereas I am somewhat undecided between the two). In any event, regardless of which vehicle we choose to go with we do have a consensus on our preference to place an order for the vehicle rather than purchasing the dealer stock. Our prior two car buying experiences consisted simply of purchasing the dealer stock so we are somewhat apprehensive about the whole ordering process. I'd rather have as much info as possible on the process before raising it with the dealership because I don't want to seem like a lemming ready to be exploited based on my ignorance. Therefore, if possible, I'd like to solicit some info from you guys and gals on the whole ordering process. For example, I understand from viewing the posts here that there is a deposit required to place an order. Can anyone tell me the amount of the deposit? Does the amount of the deposit vary if it is Ford or Mercury vehicle? Is the deposit refundable? Is there a sales contract executed at the time of the order and submission of the deposit? Is there a difference in users' perception of the willingness of dealers to negotiate on the price if it is a stock vehicle as opposed to an order? How long is the expected production and delivery dates for the hybrids - any difference between Fusion and Milan?

 

Thanks in advance for any responses to my questions. My wife and I are very excited about this whole process and we certainly would appreciate any input to assist in our decision making process.

I just ordered my car last week, so I'm going through the same process. A lot of good information in the last couple of posts. Here's an additional link about stuff you might be interested in once you actually order the car.

 

http://www.cherod.com/mustang/allocations.htm

 

If you're wanting a 2010, you need to place your order before 5/14 because the order bank for the 2010 closes that day. The 2011 order bank is scheduled to open on 5/17. That's not saying those dates can't be moved up. If Ford receives a flood of orders, it could close the bank early. From what multiple dealers have told me, there will be no major changes to the car...maybe some slight stuff. But, they've told me to expect a small price increase as there almost always is on a new model year.

 

Look into the X-plan if your eligible. If you know a Ford employee, have 100 shares of Ford stock for 6 months, or you or someone in your household works for a Ford partner company, you can be eligible for a discounted price without having to negotiate at all. There are thousands of partner companies out there. It turns out that I was eligible because someone in my household works for Toys-R-Us...didn't expect that.

[dogo88]

I can tell you what we did.

 

In early March 09 we decided to get a FFH. I contacted my Credit Union which offers a free buying service and an interest reduction if you use it. They found a couple of FFHs with the dealer they do business with. Their price was $500 off sticker and considering at that time Ford was not getting anything off sticker and some dealers were in fact, raising the prices over sticker, we felt it was a good deal. We loved the car but weren't to fond of the two on the lot. The salesman told be they had an order for a white one with leather and the 501A package. They didn't know when it would get in. Within a day or two we decided to get that one. The Credit Union told the dealer we wanted it and we did not have to put down any deposit. The car finally came in at the mid/end of May 09. We picked it up and gave the dealer the check for the vehicle and drove off. After over 10,000 miles still love the car.

 

Dan

[texlaker]

Wow. Thanks all for your very substantive responses above. This is really great info.

 

fsb 99: I understand from your post that the deposit amount varys between $500 - $1,000 depending on the dealer. Whether the deposit is refundable or not is also dealer specific. Its interesting that you decided to not do business with the dealership that requested a nonrefundalbe deposit - I hadn't thought of this. If for any reason I don't get a good vibe from one dealer or the terms are not to my liking I should shop around. Thanks for the info. Quick question, did Ford take care of those software glitches?

 

bbf2530: I certainly have been viewing the car buying sites as you suggested. In addition to Edmunds, I have also visited Truecar and Carbuyingtips.com. I thought about using the Costco service as I am a member. Additionally, I recently learned that American Express and my primary bank USAA Federal Savings Bank have auto purchase programs as well. I like the USAA and AMX programs because they provide the cost of the vehicle up front to you in the form of a certificate that you take to the authorized dealer. This allows me to research the vehicle in advance of actually going to the dealership, unfortunately the prices qouted by AMX and USAA are in excess of what Edmunds and Truecar qoute for my area - this will probably be the subject of another post.

 

sullied: thanks for the website link and the headsup regarding the cut off order date for 2010. It makes sense for me to save some money and place a 2010 order since there is only going to be a marginal difference between the 2010 and 2011 model years.

 

dogo88: I'm a member of two credit unions which have preferred dealership arrangements that I believe are similar to what you've described above; I'll make sure to include those in my search as well. You mentioned you ordered the white, was it the tricoat or the white suede. My wife is in love with the tricoat however I'm uncertain if I want to part with the upcharge fee for the tricoat paint. If it was the tricoat, can you tell me why you choose that color and how it has held up in the brief period you've had the car (less than a year)?

 

Again, thanks all for your responses to date.

Edited April 26, 2010 by texlaker

[akirby]

You should have no problems securing a vehicle order with a $500 refundable deposit in writing. If they insist on more or say it's not refundable or won't do it in writing just walk away (assuming you're not ordering a strange combination).

[dogo88]

Wow. Thanks all for your very substantive responses above. This is really great info.

 

fsb 99: I understand from your post that the deposit amount varys between $500 - $1,000 depending on the dealer. Whether the deposit is refundable or not is also dealer specific. Its interesting that you decided to not do business with the dealership that requested a nonrefundalbe deposit - I hadn't thought of this. If for any reason I don't get a good vibe from one dealer or the terms are not to my liking I should shop around. Thanks for the info. Quick question, did Ford take care of those software glitches?

 

bbf2530: I certainly have been viewing the car buying sites as you suggested. In addition to Edmunds, I have also visited Truecar and Carbuyingtips.com. I thought about using the Costco service as I am a member. Additionally, I recently learned that American Express and my primary bank USAA Federal Savings Bank have auto purchase programs as well. I like the USAA and AMX programs because they provide the cost of the vehicle up front to you in the form of a certificate that you take to the authorized dealer. This allows me to research the vehicle in advance of actually going to the dealership, unfortunately the prices qouted by AMX and USAA are in excess of what Edmunds and Truecar qoute for my area - this will probably be the subject of another post.

 

sullied: thanks for the website link and the headsup regarding the cut off order date for 2010. It makes sense for me to save some money and place a 2010 order since there is only going to be a marginal difference between the 2010 and 2011 model years.

 

dogo88: I'm a member of two credit unions which have preferred dealership arrangements that I believe are similar to what you've described above; I'll make sure to include those in my search as well. You mentioned you ordered the white, was it the tricoat or the white suede. My wife is in love with the tricoat however I'm uncertain if I want to part with the upcharge fee for the tricoat paint. If it was the tricoat, can you tell me why you choose that color and how it has held up in the brief period you've had the car (less than a year)?

 

Again, thanks all for your responses to date.

 

We got the Tricoat. It's a bit expensive as a $500 add on. It's held up great and looks great too. I've had no issues with it and is waxes up to a nice shine. Why did we get it? We wanted white, I didn't know there was a less expensive white. It is what was coming in first so we grabbed it. At that time the FFHs weren't on a dealers floor for very long. I knew what I wanted, so we basically bought it sight unseen. When we went to pick it up we were very pleased. The Trocolor White just glistens in the sun. No regrets.

 

Also, the beauty of the Credit Union (to me) was I didn't have to haggle, or argue over price. It's the negotiated deal and if I want it, that's it. Could I have save some $ if I wanted to go to a couple of dealers and dicker? Yeah, probably, but my times valuable too. When we went to pick up the car, we had the CU check and the salesman had already worked through the paperwork stuff. So from the time we walked in to when we drove off was no more that 20 minutes. That was sweet.

 

Dan

Edited April 26, 2010 by dogo88

[fsb99]

Wow. Thanks all for your very substantive responses above. This is really great info.

 

fsb 99: I understand from your post that the deposit amount varys between $500 - $1,000 depending on the dealer. Whether the deposit is refundable or not is also dealer specific. Its interesting that you decided to not do business with the dealership that requested a nonrefundalbe deposit - I hadn't thought of this. If for any reason I don't get a good vibe from one dealer or the terms are not to my liking I should shop around. Thanks for the info. Quick question, did Ford take care of those software glitches?

 

dogo88: I'm a member of two credit unions which have preferred dealership arrangements that I believe are similar to what you've described above; I'll make sure to include those in my search as well. You mentioned you ordered the white, was it the tricoat or the white suede. My wife is in love with the tricoat however I'm uncertain if I want to part with the upcharge fee for the tricoat paint. If it was the tricoat, can you tell me why you choose that color and how it has held up in the brief period you've had the car (less than a year)?

 

Again, thanks all for your responses to date.

 

Hi Texlaker,

 

I'll try to make my long story short. I walked into the dealer that wanted the $1,000 non-refundable deposit and got a price of $1,000 over invoice. I also called several dealers and asked for internet sales rep for pricing info. The best one was $250 over invoice with a $500 refundable deposit in writing so I went with them. I live in a hot hybrid market (LA/Orange County) and the reason they were willing to go so low is that ordering the vehicle (FFH tri-coat white with 502A) does not count towards their allocation. I also ordered it around the time they started rolling into dealerships, so it's possible that this one dealer did not know how hot it was going to get (told me later that they weren't accepting orders unless customer is willing to pay $1,000 over invoice).

 

I ordered on 3/30/09 and took delivery on 5/22/09. Turbo Tax calculated my $3400 tax credit correctly (waiting for my refund). During the time I waited for my FFH, I researched the internet for reviews and most importantly, end user comments, especially from this site. If I didn't like what I heard, I could back out, get my money back, and the dealer could sell my vehicle for a higher price. Everybody wins! I was more confident that this is the vehicle for me after my research (I NEVER thought I'd buy a Ford!)

 

As far as the glitches, I've experienced the dash reset and rear defroster glitch - both of which I posted here. The dash reset ,also reported by others here, happened twice and last time it was when my FFH was at 3,500 miles. It is now at 10,000+ miles. Rear defroster happened only once and I haven't heard of any other users with the same complaint. I haven't seen it since the first time, but I don't use the defroster often. Last few times I needed it, it worked fine. Re-starting the car is the fix, when the issue appears.

 

My tri-coat appears to stand up well in the past year. It is in an uncovered parking lot when I'm at work and in the garage when I'm home. I figure that the extra money I paid for it may help resale value due to better paint condition.

[texlaker]

We got the Tricoat. It's a bit expensive as a $500 add on. It's held up great and looks great too. I've had no issues with it and is waxes up to a nice shine. Why did we get it? We wanted white, I didn't know there was a less expensive white. It is what was coming in first so we grabbed it. At that time the FFHs weren't on a dealers floor for very long. I knew what I wanted, so we basically bought it sight unseen. When we went to pick it up we were very pleased. The Trocolor White just glistens in the sun. No regrets.

 

Also, the beauty of the Credit Union (to me) was I didn't have to haggle, or argue over price. It's the negotiated deal and if I want it, that's it. Could I have save some $ if I wanted to go to a couple of dealers and dicker? Yeah, probably, but my times valuable too. When we went to pick up the car, we had the CU check and the salesman had already worked through the paperwork stuff. So from the time we walked in to when we drove off was no more that 20 minutes. That was sweet.

 

Dan

 

I think we will probably go with the tricoat, my wife compared it to the white suede on two Ford Fusions on the dealer's lot. The whtie tricoat just had more pop to it than the white suede.

 

I certainly understand how you detest the haggling process, I'm inclined to use one of the car buying services (credit union; AMX) that are available to me just to avoid the whole thing. I'm afraid haggling is not my strong suit. As much as possible I'd like to complete this process via e-mail and facsimile to avoid the whole face to face haggling process which some people thrive off. I'm just not wired that way.

 

In part, that is why I am devoting so much time to online research in preparation for the actual car buying expierience this time.

Edited April 26, 2010 by texlaker

[texlaker]

Hi Texlaker,

 

I'll try to make my long story short. I walked into the dealer that wanted the $1,000 non-refundable deposit and got a price of $1,000 over invoice. I also called several dealers and asked for internet sales rep for pricing info. The best one was $250 over invoice with a $500 refundable deposit in writing so I went with them. I live in a hot hybrid market (LA/Orange County) and the reason they were willing to go so low is that ordering the vehicle (FFH tri-coat white with 502A) does not count towards their allocation. I also ordered it around the time they started rolling into dealerships, so it's possible that this one dealer did not know how hot it was going to get (told me later that they weren't accepting orders unless customer is willing to pay $1,000 over invoice).

 

I ordered on 3/30/09 and took delivery on 5/22/09. Turbo Tax calculated my $3400 tax credit correctly (waiting for my refund). During the time I waited for my FFH, I researched the internet for reviews and most importantly, end user comments, especially from this site. If I didn't like what I heard, I could back out, get my money back, and the dealer could sell my vehicle for a higher price. Everybody wins! I was more confident that this is the vehicle for me after my research (I NEVER thought I'd buy a Ford!)

 

As far as the glitches, I've experienced the dash reset and rear defroster glitch - both of which I posted here. The dash reset ,also reported by others here, happened twice and last time it was when my FFH was at 3,500 miles. It is now at 10,000+ miles. Rear defroster happened only once and I haven't heard of any other users with the same complaint. I haven't seen it since the first time, but I don't use the defroster often. Last few times I needed it, it worked fine. Re-starting the car is the fix, when the issue appears.

 

My tri-coat appears to stand up well in the past year. It is in an uncovered parking lot when I'm at work and in the garage when I'm home. I figure that the extra money I paid for it may help resale value due to better paint condition.

 

I certainly don't live in a hot market by comparison. I live in the greater Houston area and I suspect that hybrids here are no where near the demand and market saturation levels of southern California. I'm intrigued by the path you describe above in contacting the individual dealers and asking for the internet sales managers for the best deals.

 

Did you obain the invoice costs online from Edmunds or some other website and then submit your offers in writing to the dealerships or were the discussions entirely over the phone and you then had the agreement reduced to writing via email or facsimile?

 

Sorry for the numerous questions, I just feel like there is so much I can learn from you guys.

Edited April 26, 2010 by texlaker

[dogo88]

I think we will probably go with the tricoat, my wife compared it to the white suede on two Ford Fusions on the dealer's lot. The whtie tricoat just had more pop to it than the white suede.

 

I certainly understand how you detest the haggling process, I'm inclined to use one of the car buying services (credit union; AMX) that are available to me just to avoid the whole thing. I'm afraid haggling is not my strong suit. As much as possible I'd like to complete this process via e-mail and facsimile to avoid the whole face to face haggling process which some people thrive off. I'm just not wired that way.

 

In part, that is why I am devoting so much time to online research in preparation for the actual car buying expierience this time.

 

"As much as possible I'd like to complete this process via e-mail and facsimile to avoid the whole face to face haggling process which some people thrive off. I'm just not wired that way."

 

That's exactly the way I did it.

 

Good luck.

 

Dan

[texlaker]

"As much as possible I'd like to complete this process via e-mail and facsimile to avoid the whole face to face haggling process which some people thrive off. I'm just not wired that way."

 

That's exactly the way I did it.

 

Good luck.

 

Dan

 

Thanks Dan.

 

I'll let you all you guys know how things turn out in the end.

[fsb99]

I certainly don't live in a hot market by comparison. I live in the greater Houston area and I suspect that hybrids here are no where near the demand and market saturation levels of southern California. I'm intrigued by the path you describe above in contacting the individual dealers and asking for the internet sales managers for the best deals.

 

Did you obain the invoice costs online from Edmunds or some other website and then submit your offers in writing to the dealerships or were the discussions entirely over the phone and you then had the agreement reduced to writing via email or facsimile?

 

Sorry for the numerous questions, I just feel like there is so much I can learn from you guys.

 

Yes, I got invoice pricing from either kbb.com, cars.com or edmunds.com. The reported invoice prices reported matched each other so I figured they were fairly accurate. I took a print of the invoice price with all options I wanted and took it to the dealer...they offered $1,000 over invoice with $1,000 non refundable deposit. From their quote, I knew that the reported invoice and actual dealer's invoice was pretty close, but not exact. I couldn't compare item by item because the dealer would not let me have the printout if I didn't put down a deposit.

 

With the $1,000 over invoice as a maximum price, I searched the internet for dealers within 15 miles and had one FFH in stock so I can test drive it (fairly rare since FFH's were just showing up in showrooms). I called three dealers that had it and asked for internet sales. I told them what I wanted and asked for their email so I can send the pdf's of my specs (with invoice pricing info). I also told them that I got an offer for $500 over invoice already (small gamble on my part). First one said they may be able to beat (didn't turn out to be true), second said that it's not likely I can get a better offer (this is the dealer I got the FFH from - salesperson talked to GM and found out it doesn't count towards allocation and therefore can offer $250 over. Remember this was following some of the worst sales months for Ford, late 2008 to early 2009). Third did not even respond.

 

Once we agreed on a price, I showed up to their lot, test drove a tri-coat 501A and put down a deposit for the order. They had a second one that they sold to Boeing before I came (probably on the lot for no more than a few days).

[texlaker]

Yes, I got invoice pricing from either kbb.com, cars.com or edmunds.com. The reported invoice prices reported matched each other so I figured they were fairly accurate. I took a print of the invoice price with all options I wanted and took it to the dealer...they offered $1,000 over invoice with $1,000 non refundable deposit. From their quote, I knew that the reported invoice and actual dealer's invoice was pretty close, but not exact. I couldn't compare item by item because the dealer would not let me have the printout if I didn't put down a deposit.

 

With the $1,000 over invoice as a maximum price, I searched the internet for dealers within 15 miles and had one FFH in stock so I can test drive it (fairly rare since FFH's were just showing up in showrooms). I called three dealers that had it and asked for internet sales. I told them what I wanted and asked for their email so I can send the pdf's of my specs (with invoice pricing info). I also told them that I got an offer for $500 over invoice already (small gamble on my part). First one said they may be able to beat (didn't turn out to be true), second said that it's not likely I can get a better offer (this is the dealer I got the FFH from - salesperson talked to GM and found out it doesn't count towards allocation and therefore can offer $250 over. Remember this was following some of the worst sales months for Ford, late 2008 to early 2009). Third did not even respond.

 

Once we agreed on a price, I showed up to their lot, test drove a tri-coat 501A and put down a deposit for the order. They had a second one that they sold to Boeing before I came (probably on the lot for no more than a few days).

 

I also told them that I got an offer for $500 over invoice already (small gamble on my part).

 

Wow, glad to hear that gamble paid off for you. Thanks for the detailed response above, there at two lessons I've gleamed from your expierience. The first lesson is to show the dealers you've done your homework when it comes to the invoice pricing. In this respect it is good to hear that the invoice pricing info on the web is somewhat accurrate. The second lesson is to try to foster a competitive bidding process amongst the dealers; this appears to be the key to getting the best deal. I don't think I can get $250 over invoice, however, I am hopeful that I can get anywhere between $500 to $1000 above invoice tops.

 

Wish me good luck.

[sullied]

Did you obain the invoice costs online from Edmunds or some other website and then submit your offers in writing to the dealerships or were the discussions entirely over the phone and you then had the agreement reduced to writing via email or facsimile?

I use truecar.com which uses actual sales data to determine a good price and a great price for local/regional/national. It also tracks price trending as well. It's worth a shot to check it out.

 

As for the USAA and AMEX buying service, I almost used that as well until I got my x-plan. Be aware though that if you use those, the price is only guaranteed for in stock vehicles. They don't have to necessarily give you the same price on a custom order.

[akirby]

As I said before, the invoice prices on the web are exactly accurate except for the advertising fees which aren't included.