Transmission problems

[con_fusion]

I know we have many other threads going regarding problems with the 6F35 transmission. Thought I'd start a separate thread since many of the others have taken quite a few turns. Sorry if this sounds redundant.

 

My 2010 Fusion with a build date of 11/2009 has been showing some flares between shifts when it's cold and it has sat over a weekend. The first few shifts usually from 2->3 will show a slight flare. After that things are fine and I don't see this behavior letting it just sit over night.

 

This past Monday was probably the worst yet though. It flared several times from 2->3 and 3->4 during the first mile. Probably 4-5 times.

 

My car had the 10B15 service (reprogrammed the PCM at 2200 miles). Currently has a little over 7100 miles.

 

So, it's going to the dealer in the morning. They are going to let it sit and try to check it on Friday. I'm hoping they are going to be able to replicate and pinpoint the problem. Since mine falls in the time of the suspect valve body bore issues, I'm guessing this could be a valve body problem?

 

Here is a clip of the flare I captured yesterday. It's brief, you may need to crank up the volume to hear it rev a bit:

 

 

So, we'll see how it goes.

Edited October 21, 2010 by con_fusion

[2010_Fusion_SEL_Owner]

I know we have many other threads going regarding problems with the 6F35 transmission. Thought I'd start a separate thread since many of the others have taken quite a few turns. Sorry if this sounds redundant.

 

My 2010 Fusion with a build date of 11/2009 has been showing some flares between shifts when it's cold and it has sat over a weekend. The first few shifts usually from 2->3 will show a slight flare. After that things are fine and I don't see this behavior letting it just sit over night.

 

This past Monday was probably the worst yet though. It flared several times from 2->3 and 3->4 during the first mile. Probably 4-5 times.

 

My car had the 10B15 service (reprogrammed the PCM at 2200 miles).

 

So, it's going to the dealer in the morning. They are going to let it sit and try to check it on Friday. I'm hoping they are going to be able to replicate and pinpoint the problem. Since mine falls in the time of the suspect valve body bore issues, I'm guessing this could be a valve body problem?

 

Here is a clip of the flare I captured yesterday. It's brief, you may need to crank up the volume to hear it rev a bit:

 

 

So, we'll see how it goes.

[2010_Fusion_SEL_Owner]

I do not see how time sitting would effect the transmission. Once it is cold it is cold. Once you start the car the fluid is flowing fully in seconds. Sitting over night should be the same as sitting a week for the transmission in my opinion. By the time you get out on the road the oil fluid is flowing freely but still could be cold. My point is overnight should be the same as two days.

[2010SEL]

My '10 SEL was reprogrammed back in May. It has always "flared" just like con_fusion's, on that 1st shift from 2 to 3 when cold. Did both before and after the reprogramming. I told the dealer, but of course they "could not duplicate problem." I find that the lighter your foot is on the accelerator pedal, the worse it jumps. Under WOT or close to it, it shifts nice and smooth.

[con_fusion]

I do not see how time sitting would effect the transmission. Once it is cold it is cold. Once you start the car the fluid is flowing fully in seconds. Sitting over night should be the same as sitting a week for the transmission in my opinion. By the time you get out on the road the oil fluid is flowing freely but still could be cold. My point is overnight should be the same as two days.

 

I've had several other people say the same thing. So far it was very consistent that it had to sit a couple of days to see the problem. Not sure why. Maybe now that the weather is getting cooler it might happen with less time? Not sure. I do park in the garage at night.

[jazztrumpet216]

How many miles/kms?

 

Edit: Just saw the video, looks like about 7k. Mine has done it too, with the same symptoms (it needs to sit for a few days, overnight won't do it). I had mine reprogrammed at 3800 miles. Mine has a build date of 12/09 and now has 13,700 on it.

Edited October 20, 2010 by jazztrumpet216

[con_fusion]

Status update -

 

I dropped my car off with the dealer and they let it sit for two days. This morning, their transmission tech hooked up his equipment and took it for a test drive. Fortunately, it did exhibit the flare between shifts that I have been having. They said it did it once. My last episode it was several times in the first mile of driving. But... their diagnostic equipment or testing showed everything was still within "normal parameters" so they didn't have any components that they could pinpoint as failing at this point. My advisor said they couldn't be 100% sure that there wasn't something failing but they just didn't see any specific components they could zero in on.

 

They did contact the Ford hotline and per the hotline they verified fluid level (duh, like I had checked that many times already) and then they found that my vehicle didn't have the programming update from TSB 09-18-3. They didn't give me the specific TSB number but he read the text to me on the phone and it was exactly like it regarding low speed maneuvers and flares when cold. You can see it mentions cold shift flares between 2-3 and 3-4. I found a copy listed here TSB 09-18-3 What I don't quite understand is it doesn't seem to apply to my car since it was built in 11/2009. Perhaps they have updated the range of vehicles covered since this copy hit the Internet? I've already had the 10B15 reprogramming so I would have thought the 09-18-3 would have been included in the latest PCM programming but perhaps that's not the way that the PCM programming works? Maybe someone familiar with Ford's PCM programming can comment on that. Was that just BS? In any event, they did flash the 09-18-3 TSB code into the PCM. Then they redid the 10B15 PCM flash as well.

 

The other thing that they said it could be (and I'm assuming they got this from the hotline also) is the positioning of a solenoid in relation to the vent hose. My advisor said a solenoid near the vent hose can drain fluid and allow air into the solenoid if it sits for an extended period of time. This would cause the first few shifts to flare until the air is purged from the solenoid. He said in that situation it would be considered "normal" operation. To me it sounds like bad design.

 

Of course after reflashing and checking the fluid, the next test drive was normal (since they had already driven it earlier). I'll also have to drive it a bit to get the shifting patterns optimized now.

 

So, now I'll get to check it out and see how it does. Since I've never had the flare happen unless it sits for days, I'm not confident that the reflash will change anything.

 

If anything else happens I'll let you know. Since 2010SEL and jazztrumpet216 have experienced the same I'm assuming it hasn't led to bigger issues so far.

Edited October 23, 2010 by con_fusion

[RagingItalian]

I posted this here on another thread but my car has a 05/2010 build date, so it was after the factory fix, but mine still does the the 2-3 shift flare almost always when cold. I've been just getting the run around and now just waiting for the right opportunity to get rid of the car. I am just wondering does anyone else here have a car built after 3/10 that does this?

[con_fusion]

I posted this here on another thread but my car has a 05/2010 build date, so it was after the factory fix, but mine still does the the 2-3 shift flare almost always when cold. I've been just getting the run around and now just waiting for the right opportunity to get rid of the car. I am just wondering does anyone else here have a car built after 3/10 that does this?

 

Hey RagingItalian,

 

I remember seeing some of your posts but couldn't remember exactly what your symptoms were. I went back and saw on one of your posts that they applied TSB 09-18-3 for you which they just applied to mine. So far for me the flaring is only occuring if the car sits for a couple of days but I doubt that the reflash they did is going to help me if it hasn't helped your case. It seems more applicable to your cold flares. I still don't understand how 09-18-3 can be applicable to my car or yours. Unless they changed the range of build dates it was for Fusions built on or before 8/2/2009.

[RagingItalian]

Correct, 09-18-3 did not fix the flare issue with my car, and I continue to just get the run around from Ford. My guess is they know they have a problem with flares and just don' t know how to fix it.

[Oldguy16]

Correct, 09-18-3 did not fix the flare issue with my car, and I continue to just get the run around from Ford. My guess is they know they have a problem with flares and just don' t know how to fix it.

I agree, My dad also thinks the same thing. The reprogram is a band-aid for a problem that Ford has yet to really discover. Plus if they say it's just a reprogram, no huge recall needs to be announced for their new sedan that's one of their biggest sellers. Something is going to leak out eventually.

[con_fusion]

I posted this here on another thread but my car has a 05/2010 build date, so it was after the factory fix, but mine still does the the 2-3 shift flare almost always when cold. I've been just getting the run around and now just waiting for the right opportunity to get rid of the car. I am just wondering does anyone else here have a car built after 3/10 that does this?

 

Hey RagingItalian - Just saw this video posted on YouTube from a 2010 Escape owner:

 

This Escape has the same 6F35 transmission and the owner posted that his build date was in 06/2010. In the comments for the video he mentions that it does this after sitting over the weekend just like my Fusion. And it's also on the 2->3 upshift.

 

Something else - Has anyone noticed in the Fusion owners manual for the section on checking the transmission fluid where it shows the correct fluid level. It actually shows that slightly above the crosshatches is OK. Checking mine in the heat of the summer it was always right at the top of the crosshatches, never above that. If the possible story I was given about air getting into the solenoid after extended periods of sitting is true, could that be caused by just a slightly lower fluid level? The service advisor mentioned that an obviously low fluid level would cause that to happen. Things shouldn't be that close. Just wondering because mine never did this until I had a little over 5K of mileage and that was 4 months after 10B15 was done on my car.

[RagingItalian]

Con_fusion,

Thanks, that really confirms what I have suspected, all of these transmissions no matter what the build date or vehicle they are in have this problem, seems it may be worse with some and not as noticeable in others and no doubt Ford knows it as well. I have a friend who has an SE V6 with a build date of 4/10, when I first asked her about it awhile ago she said her car did not have the problem, but just told me today she did notice the funny 2-3 shift this morning when cold but not as bad as mine and now she is angry with me for bringing it to her attention, oh well. I would really like to know if its software or a mechanical problem. I am seriously thinking of trying this; I know this is a touchy subject on many automotive boards but I am a big believer in Lucas products, seems you either love them or hate them. Previously I have only used them in my vehicles once they had some miles or were showing some need, it literally stopped transmission slips in an old F150 and a Toyota Camry and they both were running great right up till when I sold/traded them. I also used the LUCAS HEAVY DUTY OIL STABILIZER in the F150 and it really quieted it down when starting it cold and it seriously ran smother, but I digress. I would not use the LUCAS TRANSMISSION FIX in a new vehicle even though I have read where some have, but its really for older transmissions that are leaking or slipping or both. But I see where they recently came out with a product for new vehicles, LUCAS OIL AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID CONDITIONER, and I am seriously considering trying it. They claim it will not void a new car warranty but I am not so sure about that and if I do try it and the transmission eventually does explode I would just not say anything, how would they know? Hmm, it is Ford.

[RagingItalian]

Con_fusion,

Well being guys I got ahead of myself and replied before i read your entire post, I like your idea, and I think the first thing I am going to do is just add some trans fluid so its a bit over the top, I'll let you know what happens. Thx, that was a good idea, certainly worth a try.

[con_fusion]

Con_fusion,

Well being guys I got ahead of myself and replied before i read your entire post, I like your idea, and I think the first thing I am going to do is just add some trans fluid so its a bit over the top, I'll let you know what happens. Thx, that was a good idea, certainly worth a try.

 

ok, just don't let my thinking out loud push you into something you don't want to do though...

 

I didn't get a flare this morning but I did drive on Saturday so I'll probably have to wait and see what happens next week for a better test..

[Oldguy16]

ok, just don't let my thinking out loud push you into something you don't want to do though...

 

I didn't get a flare this morning but I did drive on Saturday so I'll probably have to wait and see what happens next week for a better test..

It's funny you guys mention this 2nd to 3rd shift problem when the car is cold. I'm on my second transmission, and my first one, although it completely failed never had a problem like this, the new one has about 1.5k on it and it's starting to have this flare that you speak of, especially between 2nd and 3rd at light throttle. I've decided to just not touch the car and let this transmission do whatever it does, and hope that this one lasts.

[con_fusion]

After having the dealer apply TSB 09-18-3 and reapply the 10B15 programming to try resolve my cold shift flare my car is driving a lot different than it was. It seems to be for the better so far.

After several days and 200 miles that is.

 

Here is what I've noticed. Some of this was kinda of vague and I wasn't sure if it was transmission or PCM related.

 

Before: Decelerating gave me a fairly heavy braking feel which I assumed was the fuel cutoff.

 

After: It seems to coast more "normally" when taking your foot off the gas.

 

Before: Low speed parking lot moving was kind of herky jerky with some hesitation sometimes.

 

After: Low speed moving seems much smoother.

 

Before: Starting out from a stop the car seemed to wind up a bit while accelerating.

 

After: Transmission and engine seem more responsive to the throttle.

 

Before: Going around a corner the car often seemed like it didn't downshift enough and lugged until it got up to speed.

 

After: It now seems to be in the more appropriate gear to accelerate out of the turn.

 

I know this sounds like a lot. It seems like most of this was addressed in the 09-18-3 TSB but why that wasn't already a part of my PCM programming is a mystery. Makes me wonder if the dealer originally applied the 10B15 programming correctly.

 

It reminded me of how my Fusion test drive originally felt. The car I got came from another dealer due to options and color wanted etc.

 

So, I'm not sure yet if the cold flare is gone but so far it seems to be driving better.

Edited October 29, 2010 by con_fusion

[con_fusion]

Update:

 

I had been out of town so my Fusion got to sit for 4 days so I figured this would be a good test.

 

So, I went ahead and took it for a test drive to see if I had the 2->3 shift flare.

 

To my surprise, it did not flare. It was still a bit cold so it shifted a little firm but no flare. My experience over the past few months has been that it definitely would have flared after sitting for 4 days.

 

At this point, applying the 09-18-3 TSB and redoing the 10B15 programming seems to have helped.

 

I'll update if it comes back.

[RagingItalian]

I had the TSB 09-18-3 applied back in August with 750 miles on the car but the car was built after 3/10 so the 10B15 programming did not apply. It seemed the help some of the issues but the flare was still there. After the continued run around from the dealership I brought it to a transmission shop to get their opinion and they suggested changing the transmission fluid even though it was a new car. I didn't do it at first because i felt this was a Ford issue and they needed to address it but finally gave up and last month i had the fluid changed with the stock Ford Mercon LV and a bottle of LUCAS OIL AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID CONDITIONER. Initially the flare still occurred but was much less severe and after a couple of weeks was gone. Been about 2 weeks now with no flare and the car is really running and shifting well. For those who have the flare problem and cannot get a resolution from Ford you may want to try just having the fluid changed without the Lucas, they claim it will not void a new car warranty but I am not so sure about that, I just had enough and was willing to try it.

[RagingItalian]

Please disregard my previous post, took the car out this evening and had to get on it a bit when cold pulling out into traffic, guess what, 2nd to 3rd transmission flare, stick a fork in me, i'm done, had enough

[con_fusion]

Please disregard my previous post, took the car out this evening and had to get on it a bit when cold pulling out into traffic, guess what, 2nd to 3rd transmission flare, stick a fork in me, i'm done, had enough

 

Man, that is a bummer. I was kind of wondering if there might have been something funky with the fluid from the factory but I guess it shoots that theory down.

[jazztrumpet216]

Just an update- as I said before, I had the 10B15 recall performed when the car had 3800 miles on it. Yesterday, I took it in for it's 15,000 mile maintenance visit and asked them to check out the intermittent harsh 2-3 upshift. They drove my car and confirmed that the 2-3 upshift was not normal, and told me that the programming installed with the 10B15 recall had a "glitch" in it. They reprogrammed the PCM as specified in TSB #10-21-9. I've put about 15 miles on it since picking it up today, and have noticed that it does shift a bit firmer now, but not harshly.

 

One thing I immediately noticed after having the 10B15 recall performed was that the shift points changed. That does not seem to be the case with the TSB they just did. The shift points seem to be in the same place, it's just shift quality that has been improved. We'll see how it holds up.

Edited November 19, 2010 by jazztrumpet216

[con_fusion]

Just an update- as I said before, I had the 10B15 recall performed when the car had 3800 miles on it. Yesterday, I took it in for it's 15,000 mile maintenance visit and asked them to check out the intermittent harsh 2-3 upshift. They drove my car and confirmed that the 2-3 upshift was not normal, and told me that the programming installed with the 10B15 recall had a "glitch" in it. They reprogrammed the PCM as specified in TSB #10-21-9. I've put about 15 miles on it since picking it up today, and have noticed that it does shift a bit firmer now, but not harshly.

 

One thing I immediately noticed after having the 10B15 recall performed was that the shift points changed. That does not seem to be the case with the TSB they just did. The shift points seem to be in the same place, it's just shift quality that has been improved. We'll see how it holds up.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

From what I remember, it seemed like the shift points changed to me also after 10B15. When I first got my car the shift points seemed too early but after 10B15, it seemed better. I had my 10B15 done very early on when it came out so I wonder what "glitch" they are talking about.

 

I found this copy of TSB 10-21-9: TSB

 

It probably came out right at the time I last had my car at the dealer so I have no idea if this is now a part of my PCM programming or not. Overall though, I would say my cold 2-3 shift seems to be firm until it gets warmed a bit. How would you describe harsh? Does it really jerk? Mine doesn't do that.

[jazztrumpet216]

I'm not sure "jerk" is really the best word to describe it. You could definitely feel the 2-3 shift in the seat of your pants, though. There was an RPM flare and then it would kind of feel like it dropped into 3rd gear. A very odd sensation.

 

I did not get any information about what the "glitch" might have been or how widespread it may have been.

[RagingItalian]

good info Jazz, thx. I stopped by a different Ford Dealership on my way to work this morning (lost any confidence and trust from where i bought the car) and spoke to service mgr. about the issues and the TSB #10-21-9 you posted. I made an appt for tues 11/30 to have it applied, i'll post the results afterwards.