Transmission problems

[jazztrumpet216]

Hey jazztrumpet216,

 

Did your symptoms go away or get worse?

 

I had my trans rebuilt with a new valve body, clutches, gaskets, seals at 11,000 miles. Now (at 15,000) I just started having shift flares (2->3, 3->4) first thing in the morning again. Before the repair and PCM reprograms, It used to do this after it sat for two days. Now, it seems to do it if it sits overnight.

 

I had it in for a GPS/Nav issue and asked if they could just wipe the "keep alive" memory. Cuz, in order for them to replicate it, I'll have to leave it for several days to let it sit.

 

When I have the symptoms, they keep getting worse. Now I seem to have a VERY late 1-2 shift, 2-3 and 3-4 flare up. It still does it on an infrequent basis, but when it does do it; it is getting worse and worse. When this is the issue, I have noticed it will also not engage in "D" right away when I put the shifter in drive- it'll take a few seconds. When this happens, I know I can expect some crappy shifting.

 

I wish I could ram this **** transmission down their throats for a few weeks.

[Oldguy16]

When I have the symptoms, they keep getting worse. Now I seem to have a VERY late 1-2 shift, 2-3 and 3-4 flare up. It still does it on an infrequent basis, but when it does do it; it is getting worse and worse. When this is the issue, I have noticed it will also not engage in "D" right away when I put the shifter in drive- it'll take a few seconds. When this happens, I know I can expect some crappy shifting.

 

I wish I could ram this **** transmission down their throats for a few weeks.

Well put. I have a 2010 SEL V6 and I'm already on transmission number 2. My first one blew out on the highway when I was just cruising at 65mph. It slammed out of 6th into 5th, and every other gear did not work. As I slowed down it stalled. Then would not work period. Park was no good, Neutral did nothing, Drive would not move, and Manual was no different. Had to get it towed, and they replaced the transmission with a new one. I had taken mine in multiple times before, I think I got the re program 3 times, the dealer told me my car was fine....yea....loved throwing it in that guys face when the mechanic described my transmission as "catastrophic failure". The new one seems to be slightly better. However, it does drive significantly worse after using manual mode, I stopped using manual mode completely and it drives OK for now, with a few flares here and there. I'm expecting this one to go in another 15k miles. I trust my 20 year old Econoline on long trips now, more than my 2010, that thing shifts perfectly every single time. Come on Ford, this is not time to go backwards.

[con_fusion]

...However, it does drive significantly worse after using manual mode, I stopped using manual mode completely and it drives OK for now, with a few flares here and there. I'm expecting this one to go in another 15k miles. I trust my 20 year old Econoline on long trips now, more than my 2010, that thing shifts perfectly every single time. Come on Ford, this is not time to go backwards.

 

Hey Oldguy16,

 

Interesting. So you think you've had more issues or more erratic shifting after using the select-shift mode?

 

I've used my manual mode also and I wonder if that is having any impact.

 

In theory you would think it should not use manual mode for "adaptive" learning how to shift when in auto.

 

They are suppose to wipe my keep alive memory so I may just not use manual and see how it behaves when I get it back.

 

My theory is that over time the adaptive learning process somehow gets corrupted and then I start seeing shift flares etc. But it's supposed to be adapting over time so shouldn't it correct itself?

 

I wish we had some direct access to the trans engineers at Ford so we could help figure this out. If I were working on that team, I'd be busting my butt to get this figured out and make this trans better. Make my customers (which are hard to keep) Happy.

 

It seems that Ford is telling customers that some shift flares on the first few shifts when cold is normal if the fluid has drained out of the solenoids. But doesn't flaring put wear and tear on the trans?

 

<removed excess soapbox material...>

Edited June 23, 2011 by con_fusion

[Oldguy16]

I completely agree with you, I believe if the car has manual mode, we should be able to use it. But using manual mode and downshifting the car manually, even at correct speeds, seems to make my driving experience so much worse. I have to say, I've cut out manual mode completely, even though its so much fun, and the car has had many less problems. I also notice the flare when the car is cold, is only between 2200, and 3500rpm. Also its always the second time the car shifts from first to second after not driven for a while. For instance, get in my car, drive to the end of my street, car shifts from first to second, the shift is fine. Stop at the stop sign, then accelerate, car starts in first, then shifting into second is when it bangs. However by barely giving the car any gas when accelerating, i seem to "get around" this flare. I make it shift around 2000rpm by barely putting my foot down, then the car drives normally. By cutting out manual mode, I've had few problems with my brand new transmission that I got 10k miles ago. Other than one time I really put my foot down and the car just missed the shift going from first to second and went into neutral, the revs went wayyyy up, past 7k rpms. Give that a try, even though its very annoying. It does, to me at least, seem to be that each downshift manually just ruins the transmission, it bangs and jerks when I do that.

[ElKabong]

Add my '10 Milan to the list, I posted here thinking it was an alternator whine but it ended up being the transmission.

 

Have been on vacation driving my dads 13 year old Rav4 - aside from the A/C needing service, only regular maintenance on that thing and it runs like a champ. Likewise my moms 5 year old Camry.

 

My trust in this car is pretty low right now.

[con_fusion]

I completely agree with you, I believe if the car has manual mode, we should be able to use it. But using manual mode and downshifting the car manually, even at correct speeds, seems to make my driving experience so much worse. I have to say, I've cut out manual mode completely, even though its so much fun, and the car has had many less problems. I also notice the flare when the car is cold, is only between 2200, and 3500rpm. Also its always the second time the car shifts from first to second after not driven for a while. For instance, get in my car, drive to the end of my street, car shifts from first to second, the shift is fine. Stop at the stop sign, then accelerate, car starts in first, then shifting into second is when it bangs. However by barely giving the car any gas when accelerating, i seem to "get around" this flare. I make it shift around 2000rpm by barely putting my foot down, then the car drives normally. By cutting out manual mode, I've had few problems with my brand new transmission that I got 10k miles ago. Other than one time I really put my foot down and the car just missed the shift going from first to second and went into neutral, the revs went wayyyy up, past 7k rpms. Give that a try, even though its very annoying. It does, to me at least, seem to be that each downshift manually just ruins the transmission, it bangs and jerks when I do that.

 

When I have the flares I see the same as you. Drive down my neighborhood street probably get into 3rd with no flares. Pull out onto the main street to get up to 40MPH (moderate accleration) and then see the flares from 2->3, 3->4.

 

I just had my adaptive memory reset and I've noticed a few things (overall better):

 

- Seems to be shifting at a lower RPM then it was last week (which is good). So far, no shift flares. Last week it flared 2 days straight after sitting overnight.

 

- Also, I was having a whine noise first thing when cold but it seems to be minimal or gone. Couldn't tell what it was. Could this be related to the memory reset?

 

As an experiment, it would be interesting to have people who have shift flares when cold, reset their "keep alive memory" and see what happens. Would the flares go away?

 

Since my situation seems to get better after a reset, it makes me think something is corrupting the adaptive programming.

[ElKabong]

Well now, it seems my '10 Milan 3.0 was a little bit more sick than thought. It's still in the shop (16 days now, since the 15th of June).

 

Yesterday the service writer mentioned they were waiting on some parts - <sarcasm mode on here> nothing major, oh say the planetary gearset <sarcasm mode off here> - !

 

If you don't know how an auto trans works go on over to How Stuff Works - go on, come back - you'll realize the planetary is the heart of the transmission, where the valve body are the - erm, valves, and the fluid is the blood.

 

I can only hope it works out well in the end, really - this is in essence a total rebuild of the transaxle, usually done by a specialist shop but instead now being done by some poor guy who is most certainly being flat-rated (in case you don't know, that means being paid what Ford thinks mechanic should be paid, and not a realistic amount, they set times for jobs that could only be done in a laboratory where everything is "perfect").. It would be nice to know what the actual root cause of all this is - maybe GM shared some bad data to Ford in the joint development program, causing them to build crap transmissions? Clearly the root cause is known as they claim the issue to be "fixed" for the '11 model year. Is this issue also present in the GM variant of the transmission?

 

Been driving my '03 Escape with the 3.0 and 4-speed auto for a few days - 125,000 miles on it and it still runs great, just the front main seal weeps and had a coil pack go bad last year - no other mechanical problems ever (normal belts, hoses, plugs, struts, etc. don't count).

 

I might have the Milan back tomorrow or next Tuesday depending on how it all goes. I'll post my findings.

Edited June 30, 2011 by ElKabong

[con_fusion]

When I have the flares I see the same as you. Drive down my neighborhood street probably get into 3rd with no flares. Pull out onto the main street to get up to 40MPH (moderate accleration) and then see the flares from 2->3, 3->4.

 

I just had my adaptive memory reset and I've noticed a few things (overall better):

 

- Seems to be shifting at a lower RPM then it was last week (which is good). So far, no shift flares. Last week it flared 2 days straight after sitting overnight.

 

- Also, I was having a whine noise first thing when cold but it seems to be minimal or gone. Couldn't tell what it was. Could this be related to the memory reset?

 

As an experiment, it would be interesting to have people who have shift flares when cold, reset their "keep alive memory" and see what happens. Would the flares go away?

 

Since my situation seems to get better after a reset, it makes me think something is corrupting the adaptive programming.

 

So....

 

After my keep alive memory was reset, my Fusion sat for 5 days. Went to drive this morning and I did have a slight flare for the first couple of 2->3, 3->4 shifts (pulling out onto a major street).

 

They were very slight but still noticable.

 

Still seems to drive and shift better after the reset though which is odd.

 

On another note...the trans in my wife's Tahoe with less than 90K decided to implode while we were 300 miles from home. No warning, just started slipping going into 3rd, then it was slipping in 4th. Driving it in 3rd and it started slipping bad. Does anyone build a decent transmission????

[ElKabong]

OK, got it back on Tuesday with completely rebuilt transmission.

 

In my case, the selling dealer or someone else (not the dealer I use for service) clearly had someone incompetent perform the original service bulletin for the transmission, and they also misled me - they told me it was only a seal that was serviced. Didn't show up in Oasis when I checked (interesting how that works).

 

So the person who did the service bulletin really messed up - a circlip missing was the eventual root cause of the failure, plus bolts in the wrong place, bolts missing, damaged starter housing, valve body cover had way too much sealant - the mechanic who rebuilt my trans had a laundry list of stuff the "other guy" did poorly. I can only assume it failed the load test and the guy botched the rebuild.

 

I do have some faith in the servicing dealer, Buss Ford in McHenry Il, not cheap for out of warranty stuff but reputable work and they have a clean shop (if you know what that means).

 

Now with all parts in correct place and of course new internals, the transmission shifts as it should (not exactly a Lexus but acceptable). I see no noticeable flare. I am driving it moderately, my commute is mixed with max speed at 55 for a short run so it's a pretty decent break-in routine.

 

Nice to be back in the comfy chair after time spent commuting in the '03 Escape - not that it's bad but the seat hurts after a while (1 hour each way) and the Milan is much more quiet ride.

 

I shall remain vigilant in checking for flare or degradation.

[jazztrumpet216]

OK, got it back on Tuesday with completely rebuilt transmission.

 

In my case, the selling dealer or someone else (not the dealer I use for service) clearly had someone incompetent perform the original service bulletin for the transmission, and they also misled me - they told me it was only a seal that was serviced. Didn't show up in Oasis when I checked (interesting how that works).

 

So the person who did the service bulletin really messed up - a circlip missing was the eventual root cause of the failure, plus bolts in the wrong place, bolts missing, damaged starter housing, valve body cover had way too much sealant - the mechanic who rebuilt my trans had a laundry list of stuff the "other guy" did poorly. I can only assume it failed the load test and the guy botched the rebuild.

 

I do have some faith in the servicing dealer, Buss Ford in McHenry Il, not cheap for out of warranty stuff but reputable work and they have a clean shop (if you know what that means).

 

Now with all parts in correct place and of course new internals, the transmission shifts as it should (not exactly a Lexus but acceptable). I see no noticeable flare. I am driving it moderately, my commute is mixed with max speed at 55 for a short run so it's a pretty decent break-in routine.

 

Nice to be back in the comfy chair after time spent commuting in the '03 Escape - not that it's bad but the seat hurts after a while (1 hour each way) and the Milan is much more quiet ride.

 

I shall remain vigilant in checking for flare or degradation.

 

I might have missed, but how many miles do you have on the Milan?

[ElKabong]

I might have missed, but how many miles do you have on the Milan?

You didn't miss, I forgot to post it - I'm just over 33k now.

[Santa2ya]

OK, got it back on Tuesday with completely rebuilt transmission.

 

In my case, the selling dealer or someone else (not the dealer I use for service) clearly had someone incompetent perform the original service bulletin for the transmission, and they also misled me - they told me it was only a seal that was serviced. Didn't show up in Oasis when I checked (interesting how that works).

 

My 2010 Fusion SE (I-4) automatic is at the dealer now for trans issues with just over 11k on it. Diagnostic yesterday was pointing to PCM reflash. Told him I've heard that's a crapshoot, some work some don't. Dealer called today to say the PCM needs replaced. Hopefully this fixes it.

 

Dumb question though, What is "Oasis"?

[cartmanea]

OASIS is Ford's warranty repair history for your vehicle. An OASIS Report gives them everything done to your vehicle by a Ford service department.

[Santa2ya]

Reflash was a no-go. Ordered new PCM. Ran 30 seconds and failed. Ordered a second PCM (shipped next day air). I have about 200 miles on the second (3rd for the car) PCM & so far so good. I have noticed that it does shift much better. Before it would seem to hesitate or pause between gears. But that was before everything went completely wacky.

 

Added: My mileage is at 11,700. Thursday the 21st of July will be 1 year of ownership. Manufacture date code 6/10.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Santa2ya

[con_fusion]

Reflash was a no-go. Ordered new PCM. Ran 30 seconds and failed. Ordered a second PCM (shipped next day air). I have about 200 miles on the second (3rd for the car) PCM & so far so good. I have noticed that it does shift much better. Before it would seem to hesitate or pause between gears. But that was before everything went completely wacky.

 

Added: My mileage is at 11,700. Thursday the 21st of July will be 1 year of ownership. Manufacture date code 6/10.

 

Hmmm, The comment about your shifting used to hesitate or pause between shifts sounds familiar.

 

I've had my valve body and clutches replaced at 11K, latest programming and even after that, I still get a pause between 1->2, 2->3. A lot of others have made comments in the past that their 6F35 shifts like a manual. Maybe it's a PCM quirk?

 

It's a bit disturbing that a new PCM would only work for 30 seconds.

[Santa2ya]

Hmmm, The comment about your shifting used to hesitate or pause between shifts sounds familiar.

 

I've had my valve body and clutches replaced at 11K, latest programming and even after that, I still get a pause between 1->2, 2->3. A lot of others have made comments in the past that their 6F35 shifts like a manual. Maybe it's a PCM quirk?

 

It's a bit disturbing that a new PCM would only work for 30 seconds.

 

 

This is the first 6 speed electronic shift trans that we have had. We just thought the hesitation or pause between gears was normal. Obviously not.

Thanks to this forum I have learned alot.

[JibberJab]

These posts are disturbing.

 

The 6F35 transmission was a co-engineering project between GM Powertrain and Ford Motor Company, so the GM 6T70 looks very much like the Ford transmission when placed side-by-side and internal components are sourced from the same supplier, yet I am not able to find any issues related to transmission failures on Chevy Malibu and Saturn vehicles.

 

After reading the press release by Ford on the 6F35, you would think this transmission is bulletproof. I watched a YouTube video that was shot at Ford's Van Dyke assembly plant and it shows the valve bodies being meticulously assembled in a clean room environment to ensure that valves won't stick during operation in your vehicle. The 6F35 transmissions were not being built there at the time, but I see no reason why the same manufacturing processes would not apply.

 

I have read many posts by Fusion owners stating their valve bodies needed to be replaced. Based on the video, it would seem to me that the valve body is not a field replaceable part. How is this happening? How many Ford technicians (if any) have the expertise to crack open a transmission and perform this task? I could see a Ford technician replacing an entire transmission, but not mucking with its internals. This is a situation where a brand new unit should be sent from the factory for replacement.

 

The other thing is that we have no idea how many Ford products have been affected; is it 2%, 5%, 10%? Also, I am not finding anything regarding failures on the 2011 model year and if it was fixed for 2011, I cannot find anything that discusses what Ford did to resolve the problem. Did Ford finally figure this out?

 

I would like to buy a 2012 Fusion but this has me wondering whether or not I will regret this.

Edited August 22, 2011 by JibberJab

[Amseriah]

These posts are disturbing.

 

The 6F35 transmission was a co-engineering project between GM Powertrain and Ford Motor Company, so the GM 6T70 looks very much like the Ford transmission when placed side-by-side and internal components are sourced from the same supplier, yet I am not able to find any issues related to transmission failures on Chevy Malibu and Saturn vehicles.

 

After reading the press release by Ford on the 6F35, you would think this transmission is bulletproof. I watched a YouTube video that was shot at Ford's Van Dyke assembly plant and it shows the valve bodies being meticulously assembled in a clean room environment to ensure that valves won't stick during operation in your vehicle. The 6F35 transmissions were not being built there at the time, but I see no reason why the same manufacturing processes would not apply.

 

I have read many posts by Fusion owners stating their valve bodies needed to be replaced. Based on the video, it would seem to me that the valve body is not a field replaceable part. How is this happening? How many Ford technicians (if any) have the expertise to crack open a transmission and perform this task? I could see a Ford technician replacing an entire transmission, but not mucking with its internals. This is a situation where a brand new unit should be sent from the factory for replacement.

 

The other thing is that we have no idea how many Ford products have been affected; is it 2%, 5%, 10%? Also, I am not finding anything regarding failures on the 2011 model year and if it was fixed for 2011, I cannot find anything that discusses what Ford did to resolve the problem. Did Ford finally figure this out?

 

I would like to buy a 2012 Fusion but this has me wondering whether or not I will regret this.

 

I just bought a 2011 Fusion without doing as much research as I needed to apparently. It has slightly over 250 miles on it now and since it had 150 the transmission has been shifting pretty hard. I am taking it into the shop this week. They have 4 chances to get it right or I am going to proceed with claiming it as a Lemon. So it is going on with the 2011's also.

[cartmanea]

I'm wondering if I should bother getting mine re-flashed to see if that improves the shifting. At 87k miles, I'm out of warranty so I would have to pay for it. Mine doesn't shift BAD, just seems very inconsistent. It seems to shift decent under harder acceleration and light throttle is where the problems are.

[dabige]

...yet I am not able to find any issues related to transmission failures on Chevy Malibu and Saturn vehicles.

You're kidding, right? I'll agree about Saturn (largely because they haven't been produced since late 2009), but Chevy Malibu transmission issues are about as easy to find as complaints about the Ford 6F35.

[dabige]

I just bought a 2011 Fusion without doing as much research as I needed to apparently. It has slightly over 250 miles on it now and since it had 150 the transmission has been shifting pretty hard. I am taking it into the shop this week. They have 4 chances to get it right or I am going to proceed with claiming it as a Lemon. So it is going on with the 2011's also.

 

It can take a couple hundred miles for the transmission to adapt to your driving style. The same is true with the 2012 Focus. Personally, I would give it another 500 miles or so before wasting your time back at the dealer, (unless you forgot a zero in your mileage). It will also allow the rest of the car's components to finish breaking in. Just my $ 2/100.

[ehidle]

Our brand new 2012 Fusion has 1500 miles on it, and has started doing this the other day. The car sat for about 48 hours, and when my wife took it out on Sunday, the engine speed ran away between gears, and then slammed into gear HARD. It did this several times over her ~8 mile trip to campus, but it did not do it at all on the way home, and has not done it since.

 

I showed her a couple of the videos posted in this thread and she said that was EXACTLY what the car did.

 

I can't imagine a car built in July 2011 would not have the up-to-date transmission programming, or that after 2 years of people reporting this problem, they would still be shipping these cars with this problem.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to contribute. We'll be taking it in tomorrow.

[motorcyclist]

These posts are disturbing.

 

The 6F35 transmission was a co-engineering project between GM Powertrain and Ford Motor Company, so the GM 6T70 looks very much like the Ford transmission when placed side-by-side and internal components are sourced from the same supplier, yet I am not able to find any issues related to transmission failures on Chevy Malibu and Saturn vehicles.

 

After reading the press release by Ford on the 6F35, you would think this transmission is bulletproof. I watched a YouTube video that was shot at Ford's Van Dyke assembly plant and it shows the valve bodies being meticulously assembled in a clean room environment to ensure that valves won't stick during operation in your vehicle. The 6F35 transmissions were not being built there at the time, but I see no reason why the same manufacturing processes would not apply.

 

I have read many posts by Fusion owners stating their valve bodies needed to be replaced. Based on the video, it would seem to me that the valve body is not a field replaceable part. How is this happening? How many Ford technicians (if any) have the expertise to crack open a transmission and perform this task? I could see a Ford technician replacing an entire transmission, but not mucking with its internals. This is a situation where a brand new unit should be sent from the factory for replacement.

 

The other thing is that we have no idea how many Ford products have been affected; is it 2%, 5%, 10%? Also, I am not finding anything regarding failures on the 2011 model year and if it was fixed for 2011, I cannot find anything that discusses what Ford did to resolve the problem. Did Ford finally figure this out?

 

I would like to buy a 2012 Fusion but this has me wondering whether or not I will regret this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not think you would regret purchasing a fusion, our 2011 I4 SEL has been fantastic so far. granted has just 1800 miles but notice no irratic shifting. now this is my first auto trans vehicle I have personally owned so I can't be the best authority on a front wheel drive auto shifter ( do drive a company van with auto) but do not notice any rpm spikes between shifts. . the gas mileage exceeds my expectations, combined driving has produced 30 mpg so far every fill up and could be better if one could still get honest to goodness gasoline W/O ethanol. mine dosn't waste any time in shifting out of lower gears which helps gas mileage greatly.

While I am sure that some owners have issues but that is kind ot the norm with mass produced equipment to have some problems ( granted it sucks when you personally end up with one the problem ones) but I guess that there is always a bit of risk that you could get one with issues, but how many of the thousands of fusion owners are out there that if one could talk to would tell you that they have had zero problems with their 6F35 tranny. I just decided to take the chance and bought one and have no regrets and hope it will give another 12 years of service as my 99 Mistique did.

[JibberJab]

You're kidding, right? I'll agree about Saturn (largely because they haven't been produced since late 2009), but Chevy Malibu transmission issues are about as easy to find as complaints about the Ford 6F35.

 

Yeah, thanks. I was expecting this.

 

I revised my search criteria and googled "chevy malibu transmission issues" and all those issues that are about as easy to find, as you say, don't amount to all that much in comparison to what I get back on the Ford Fusion.

[JibberJab]

I do not think you would regret purchasing a fusion, our 2011 I4 SEL has been fantastic so far. granted has just 1800 miles but notice no irratic shifting. now this is my first auto trans vehicle I have personally owned so I can't be the best authority on a front wheel drive auto shifter ( do drive a company van with auto) but do not notice any rpm spikes between shifts. . the gas mileage exceeds my expectations, combined driving has produced 30 mpg so far every fill up and could be better if one could still get honest to goodness gasoline W/O ethanol. mine dosn't waste any time in shifting out of lower gears which helps gas mileage greatly.

While I am sure that some owners have issues but that is kind ot the norm with mass produced equipment to have some problems ( granted it sucks when you personally end up with one the problem ones) but I guess that there is always a bit of risk that you could get one with issues, but how many of the thousands of fusion owners are out there that if one could talk to would tell you that they have had zero problems with their 6F35 tranny. I just decided to take the chance and bought one and have no regrets and hope it will give another 12 years of service as my 99 Mistique did.

 

Thanks,

 

I appreciate what you have to say and I am still thinking of moving forward with the Fusion. I'm concerned because the last two Passats I purchased had tranny issues. My 2005 Passat with the ZF transmission would always bang into second gear and when bringing the vehicle to a complete stop, it felt like I was being bumped from behind. I brought the car in and the dealer said my transmission was behaving normally. My 2008 Passat with the Aisin transmission developed a harsh shift from first to second and I received a letter from VW stating that they were pleased to inform me of their decision to extend the warranty that covers the valve body in this transmission to 7 years or 100,000 miles. This was based on customer complaints they received. Imagine how pleased I was.

 

This is now two cars in a row with transmission issues, so I have some concerns. I also have to consider the fact that Ford makes tons of these transmissions so maybe the failure rate is extremely low.