akirby Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Now I remember that problem and i do think it was the valve position or something like that. This isn't something you'll have to "foot a huge bill" for later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This isn't something you'll have to "foot a huge bill" for later. That makes since if it is the position of the valves and I hope that that is what the problem is. Do you think the data recorder would pick up on that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 That makes since if it is the position of the valves and I hope that that is what the problem is. Do you think the data recorder would pick up on that? Doubtful 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ok. Took it back to the dealer on Tuesday to get the data recorder taken off. Called today and they told me that there was nothing on the recorder that since the engine was not running it was not picking up anything from the pcm. New development though. It now is not starting about 75% of the time and also not always starting the second time either. On time the car started and died right after starting. I am thinking that it is not the valves that are the problem. Any more ideas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ok. Took it back to the dealer on Tuesday to get the data recorder taken off. Called today and they told me that there was nothing on the recorder that since the engine was not running it was not picking up anything from the pcm. New development though. It now is not starting about 75% of the time and also not always starting the second time either. On time the car started and died right after starting. I am thinking that it is not the valves that are the problem. Any more ideas? PCM/wiring or fuel pump. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The dealership back home actually told me that it was the pcm but because they could not get it to duplicate the problem Ford would not send them a new one. I thought it could have been the fuel pump too but it is not dependent on how long the car sits between starts when it does not start so that pretty much rules out the fuel draining back and causing not to start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The dealership back home actually told me that it was the pcm but because they could not get it to duplicate the problem Ford would not send them a new one. I thought it could have been the fuel pump too but it is not dependent on how long the car sits between starts when it does not start so that pretty much rules out the fuel draining back and causing not to start. But it doesn't rule out intermittent pump operation. Either it's not getting fuel or it's not getting spark. If it's not getting fuel it's the fuel pump. If it's not getting spark it's the PCM. The dealer should be able to easily diagnose this and get Ford to fix whatever is faulty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusionmanor Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 For whatever it's worth, when you first turn on the key the computer checks the whole system in about one second, if a short is found the Auto Shutdown system will turn off the spark and or the fuel supply. On any OBD-2 system; if it's cranking good with no spark and or fuel the computer has found a fault and shut itself down, but if it won't crank at all and everything else works fine the anti theft system has been tripped (IP light on). Most of the time it has been a fuel pump relay getting (funny) and tripping the auto shutdown at first key on. This is all based on having a good battery, clean grounds, re-seating all relays and fuses etc. Try a fresh Fuel Pump Relay and see what happens, it's good to have a spare anyway............ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 But it doesn't rule out intermittent pump operation. Either it's not getting fuel or it's not getting spark. If it's not getting fuel it's the fuel pump. If it's not getting spark it's the PCM. The dealer should be able to easily diagnose this and get Ford to fix whatever is faulty. If it makes a difference, you can always hear the fuel pump prime when you first turn the key on. The problem is the dealer cannot get the car to do it... or at least that is what they are claiming, and so they say they cannot figure out what the problem is. I have had the car at three different dealerships and only one has told me what the problem likely is. I am really leaning toward it not getting spark because while it is cranking, it will sometimes fire but not enough to get the car started. I hope this isn't too confusing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geost1 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hey guys. Not to get off topic but I had a question related to this issue. Whenever starting my vehilces I've always held the key in the start posiiton until the vehilce turned over. I've used this same method to start my SPORT every since picking it up from the dealer last year, and have never had any of the issues described in this thread. My question is does holding the key in the "Start" position until the car turns over do any damage given this system? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 My question is does holding the key in the "Start" position until the car turns over do any damage given this system? No, the car uses computer controlled starting. Once the engine fires off the starter is automatically disengaged, even if you are still holding the key in START. This prevents any flex plate damage like when people try to start their car when it's already running. Because it's computer controlled, holding the key is not necessary. I just turn mine until it hits start briefly and then let go while it finishes cranking. It will continue to crank for up to 10 seconds at a time, so if you want it to stop cranking you have to turn the key back to ACC to cancel the crank attempt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geost1 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 No, the car uses computer controlled starting. Once the engine fires off the starter is automatically disengaged, even if you are still holding the key in START. This prevents any flex plate damage like when people try to start their car when it's already running. Because it's computer controlled, holding the key is not necessary. I just turn mine until it hits start briefly and then let go while it finishes cranking. It will continue to crank for up to 10 seconds at a time, so if you want it to stop cranking you have to turn the key back to ACC to cancel the crank attempt. Thanks for the info. Truth is, as long as it's not hurting anything, I'll probably continue to start the car the same way I always have. Old habits die hard... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlong Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Add me to the list! I don't really accept the idea that this happens to all cars every once in a while. My wife drives a 2008 edge with the 3.5L and this has never happened. Well, maybe this does happen to all cars but it should only be once in a very long time, like once a year The only time the engine ever failed to start on our edge was because of a bad battery. There is something causing this on the fusion sport, be it mechanical or electrical. I don't think valve position is the issue, because isn't the 3.5 in the edge the same engine and wouldn't this happen to all 3.5L engines? Has anyone tried the revised ground strap? I haven't read about anyone with the 3.5L trying the revised strap, just talk about trying it and most people saying it won't work. I'm really interested to know if anyone actually tried it. Well if it starts after the 1st try and only happens every once in a while I guess that I can live with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Add me to the list! I don't really accept the idea that this happens to all cars every once in a while. My wife drives a 2008 edge with the 3.5L and this has never happened. Well, maybe this does happen to all cars but it should only be once in a very long time, like once a year The only time the engine ever failed to start on our edge was because of a bad battery. There is something causing this on the fusion sport, be it mechanical or electrical. I don't think valve position is the issue, because isn't the 3.5 in the edge the same engine and wouldn't this happen to all 3.5L engines? Has anyone tried the revised ground strap? I haven't read about anyone with the 3.5L trying the revised strap, just talk about trying it and most people saying it won't work. I'm really interested to know if anyone actually tried it. Well if it starts after the 1st try and only happens every once in a while I guess that I can live with that. Well, you may not think it has anything to do with valves but a Ford engineer does. I'll think I'll go with his explanation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Well, you may not think it has anything to do with valves but a Ford engineer does. I'll think I'll go with his explanation. That just doesn't make sense. That is either a misunderstanding or an extremely dumb engineer (not likely). When cranking an engine, the valves open and close for each cylinder as it progresses through the firing order. Depending on where the engine came to rest, the only thing different is which cylinder made it through the intake and compression stroke first, and whatever cylinder is next in sequence will immediately follow. If the engine doesn't light on the first cylinder that has fuel and compression, it certainly would on the second or third, nearly instantly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlong Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Well, you may not think it has anything to do with valves but a Ford engineer does. I'll think I'll go with his explanation. On the flip side doesn't the ford edge have the same engine? Not once has our edge had this problem. That is the point of view I am taking when making that statement. I went and looked at the edge and took a few pics. There is a pic of the updated ground strap on the fusion in this thread. http://www.fordfusionforum.com/topic/2414-2010-4cyl-keeps-turning-over-doesnt-start-intermittenly/?p=21392 Here are 3 pics of the edge. This is mounted to the firewall on the passenger side. It goes to the engine. You can see the braided ground strap just to the left of the small wire. Here is a wider pic. I don't know what that small box at the end of the wire is. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree? Who knows. I wonder if they are the same thing on the edge and the I-4 fusion. Before I get any comments I know the engine bay is dirty! I literally drove through a dust storm on Christmas day. It was so bad the sun was almost blacked out and you couldn't see 1/4 a mile down the road. It was real crazy! I tried posting the image from the other thread in the post but got this message. You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community. Um... ok. Edited December 30, 2012 by jlong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't know what that small box at the end of the wire is. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree? Who knows. I wonder if they are the same thing on the edge and the I-4 fusion. It's a capacitor. It smooths out the voltage fluctuations so the sensor signals are not noisy. I checked but I could not find a capacitor cable anywhere on my engine. The group strap is connected to the passenger side engine mount. I conjecture that because the ground strap is so short (~5"), it does not need a capacitor like the Edge and 2.5L engines because the voltage drop and harmonic effects would be minimal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpin85 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hope this helps but my 12 Sport has had the starting issues and the dealer has replaced the throttle body. I get it back tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) They replaced the throttle body on mine to. It fixed it for a couple months then it started doing it again. That may have fixed your problem but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Edited January 22, 2013 by nbmaddox 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jshell757 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 MY 12 Sport has done this at least 4 times so far, dealer looked at it twice and could not reproduce the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) I wonder if everyone that has had this problem contacted Ford what the response would be. I contacted Ford and they extended my warranty another 2 years and are going to provide a rental car for me to use when I take my car to leave it until the dealership can figure out the problem. They told me that they have not had many complaints about it so I wonder if several people started complaining what would happen. Also what lights are staying on when your car is cranking but does not start. My check engine always stays on even after all the other lights go off. Edited February 11, 2013 by nbmaddox 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlong Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) I wonder if everyone that has had this problem contacted Ford what the response would be. I contacted Ford and they extended my warranty another 2 years and are going to provide a rental car for me to use when I take my car to leave it until the dealership can figure out the problem. They told me that they have not had many complaints about it so I wonder if several people started complaining what would happen. Also what lights are staying on when your car is cranking but does not start. My check engine always stays on even after all the other lights go off. Who exactly would I contact? I'm out of warranty now so I don't know how much good it would do. They could have had thousands of reports of this problem but just say "This is the first we are hearing of this problem". It's cool that they appear to be helping you. Hopefully they actually track down the problem and find a fix. This keeps happening to me randomly and it sucks. I don't have any warning lights on when this happens to me. If you do this may be a separate problem than what I am having. Please keep us posted on the progress they make on your car. Edited February 23, 2013 by jlong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewB81 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I was mildly excited at the prospect of buying a slightly used 2012 Fusion Sport until viewing this thread... This sounds like a problem that has been around for a while. Any way of knowing the % of Fusions it affects? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbmaddox Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Well... I took the car back to the dealership two weeks ago because the car was consistently not starting more often (like every 3-4 times you would go to start it) and they told me there is a lot more information on Ford's website about the problem then when I last had it there. They ended up replacing the evap. purge valve as instructed by the engineer they have been working with. After they replaced it, the car did not have any issues for those two weeks (granted I am back at school and don't get to drive it much) until this last weekend. So, it is back to the dealership in five weeks when classes are over for the summer. I really thought they had found the problem this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJhirsch Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 OK guys i bought a 2010 Fusion Sport 55k miles 5 months ago. After having it for a month it would not start the first time i tryed every 3-4 times i went out to my car to go to work or drive home but would always start the 2nd time. I talked to my friend at work who knows a lot about car and he said to try some seafoam in the gas tank. So i put in one can of seafoam and for the last 3+ months it has started the first try every time. Must be some moister in the gas tank or something like that. $8.99 fix and it is worth a try for everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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