2012 6F35 Transmission Problems (New Video)

[ehidle]

I thought I would start a thread for owners of 2012 Fusions that have the defective transmission.

 

So, here's the story on ours, loosely translated from my other post in the general thread.

 

Sunday, my wife went to take the Fusion over to campus to get some things done. The car had been sitting in the carport for about 48 hours in our balmy South Carolina climate. The whole way over, the engine speed would "run away" when shifting, and then slam HARD into the next gear. After her function at campus, the car did not do anything abnormal on the way home.

 

I showed her a couple of the videos showing what other owners have been experiencing, and she said it was exactly the same as her experience, what has been colloquially referred to as a "flare."

 

It is apparent that this problem also affects model year 2012, despite Ford's attempt to "fix" this problem in software. I have a feeling that the software patch does not actually fix the root cause of this problem, but rather simply tries to mask in hopes the transmission will last the warranty period. It is all too sexy a proposition to fix an expensive hardware problem with a cheaper-to-implement software change.

 

Anyway, if you are the owner of a 2012 Fusion and have a defective transmission, this thread is for you. I would like for this thread to serve the purpose of aggregating useful data from owners that might help resolve the problem.

 

It may have been posted in another thread, but is anyone aware if a determination of root cause has been made for this problem?

Edited September 1, 2011 by ehidle

[mike_in_md]

The owners manual talks about adaptive learning especially after changing the battery and mentions that there may be some unsmooth shifting until it learns. You car is still very new and due to the few miles that you have on it you may be seeing a lack of smooth shifting. I wouldn't get too paranoid yet. Also, getting use to the nuances of a new car takes a little time.

 

It would be nice to see an actual video of what you/she are seeing. If it is an intermittent problem at least you will have a video to show the dealer. It may also be that what your wife saw was normal downshifting, which may look like a surge to some people.

[MTLFusion2010]

The owners manual talks about adaptive learning especially after changing the battery and mentions that there may be some unsmooth shifting until it learns. You car is still very new and due to the few miles that you have on it you may be seeing a lack of smooth shifting. I wouldn't get too paranoid yet. Also, getting use to the nuances of a new car takes a little time.

 

It would be nice to see an actual video of what you/she are seeing. If it is an intermittent problem at least you will have a video to show the dealer. It may also be that what your wife saw was normal downshifting, which may look like a surge to some people.

 

You must be kidding....

With all due respect, thousands other new cars roll on the streets everyday. Some with adaptive transmission, some with gizmo this and others with gizmo that. None has this 'nuance'.

 

The OP's wife could have imagined this, but evidence from countless other forum members points to the conclusion that this is actually a problem that plagues many Fusions to varying degrees of severity.

 

My 2010 shifted smoothly for a year, where it was driven daily. This summer when we returned from our vacation I thought to try to accelerate a little more briskly than I usually do to see if my transmission slips after having the car parked for a few days. And sure the 2-3 slip, err. 'flare', was there. I slowed down and tried again, and it happened again, but less severe. Note that I did have the dealer perform Ford's 'Customer Satisfaction Program' repairs related to hard shifts last summer.

The Fusion gremlins appear to be popping up in droves. First, the yet to be resolved, sloshing sound in the heater core (actually, air bubbles finding their way into the cooling system), now transmission slips and hard shifts.

Both problems are much more prevalent than what the posts in this forum indicate, simply because many owners did not notice them.

I am now convinced that Ford bought a stake in Johnson & Johnson to secure a cheap supply of Band-Aid solutions.....

This is my first, and definitely my last Ford product.

[mike_in_md]

You must be kidding....

With all due respect, thousands other new cars roll on the streets everyday. Some with adaptive transmission, some with gizmo this and others with gizmo that. None has this 'nuance'.

 

The OP's wife could have imagined this, but evidence from countless other forum members points to the conclusion that this is actually a problem that plagues many Fusions to varying degrees of severity.

 

 

With all due respect, there are over 200 thousand Fusions sold each year and there are only a couple dozen people on this forum complaining about the transmission surge issue. Therefore, evidence from many non complainers points to the conclusion that this is an issue that is real only to a very very very small percentage of people. I feel sorry for those people who really have a problem; they deserve nothing less than Ford bending over backwards to get them back on the road.

 

Anyway, back to point here. I have been reading posts from new owners freaking out after they read other peoples post about this issue and that they may be worried about them having a possible issue as well, even though they havn't experienced a problem. When you use the words "actual problems to many", people may interpet the word "many" as a significant large number of owners ( i.e., a lot more than 25 people out of a millon) as a cause to panick. I stand by my statement that "getting use to the nuances of a new car takes a little time".

[MTLFusion2010]

With all due respect, there are over 200 thousand Fusions sold each year and there are only a couple dozen people on this forum complaining about the transmission surge issue. Therefore, evidence from many non complainers points to the conclusion that this is an issue that is real only to a very very very small percentage of people. I feel sorry for those people who really have a problem; they deserve nothing less than Ford bending over backwards to get them back on the road.

 

For more than a whole year I was one of those 'non-complainers' simply because the manner which I drive my car did not expose the problem. I drive my car daily and since I live in a big city with lots of traffic, I do not get to accelerate long/fast enough to exhibit the problem.

The minute I drove the car the same way described in the posts (leave it parked for more than a day then accelerate fairly briskly), the transmission exhibited the notorious slip. Admittedly, less drastic than some posts, but there was a definite gear slip with a 250+ RPM surge on the tachometer. In my case it felt like someone double-clutching a manual gearbox.

I am convinced (and you are absolutely free to disagree) that many Fusion owners are like I was in the past year: oblivious to the underlying problem.

After more than a year and 10000 miles on the clock, I can hardly describe this as nuances of a new car. Unless my care was really thick in the head and is still learning my shift patterns

Cheers...

[ehidle]

The OP's wife could have imagined this, but evidence from countless other forum members points to the conclusion that this is actually a problem that plagues many Fusions to varying degrees of severity.

 

She did not imagine it. I drove the car cold this morning and observed what could only be described as a flare between 2nd and 3rd gear. It's identical to the flare posted in many videos here.

 

 

 

Anyway, back to point here. I have been reading posts from new owners freaking out after they read other peoples post about this issue and that they may be worried about them having a possible issue as well, even though they havn't experienced a problem.

 

The correct sequence of events in our case was that my wife experienced a problem, told me about it, and then I discovered that others were having similar problems by searching the Internet. Since discovering a dearth of information about this issue, I have subsequently been able to reproduce the issue myself.

 

I did call the local ford dealer and after explaining the behavior he said they definitely need to see it and made an appointment for me next Tuesday.

 

So, again, I would like to identify other owners of 2012 Fusions that exhibit these symptoms, because there has been no action taken by Ford that I am aware of that acknowledges that this is an issue in the 2012 model year, and the first step in getting such an action is to identify a sample population that shows the defect.

[MTLFusion2010]

So, again, I would like to identify other owners of 2012 Fusions that exhibit these symptoms, because there has been no action taken by Ford that I am aware of that acknowledges that this is an issue in the 2012 model year, and the first step in getting such an action is to identify a sample population that shows the defect.

 

Hello ehidle

The problem spreads beyond 2012 models. My car has it and it is a 2010. Other posts come from from 2011 owners.

And this is why I speak about Ford with some bitterness. A transmission slipping on shifts is not a trivial issue. The problem has persisted over 3 model years without any serious resolution from Ford except for some feel-good do-nothing solution (PCM re-flash). The same attitude they show to the other Fusion problem (sloshing sounds from the heater core). For that problem they tried to sooth owners with another feel-good do-nothing solution (a revised burping procedure). In neither case did Ford come up with a real once-and-for-all solution.

[ehidle]

Hello ehidle

The problem spreads beyond 2012 models. My car has it and it is a 2010. Other posts come from from 2011 owners.

And this is why I speak about Ford with some bitterness. A transmission slipping on shifts is not a trivial issue. The problem has persisted over 3 model years without any serious resolution from Ford except for some feel-good do-nothing solution (PCM re-flash). The same attitude they show to the other Fusion problem (sloshing sounds from the heater core). For that problem they tried to sooth owners with another feel-good do-nothing solution (a revised burping procedure). In neither case did Ford come up with a real once-and-for-all solution.

 

From my observation, it would seem the problem is failure to engage or late engagement rather than slipping. This is why they think they can fix it in firmware by simply tweaking the shift timings. It seems they believe it's just a matter of compensating for the slow buildup of fluid pressure by starting the re-engagement process sooner, or by repositioning the home position of the regulator solenoid to achieve a better fluid seal. The problem with these approaches is that they only work today, and fail to be effective as the transmission wears further.

 

The once and for all solution, from what I have read, is to replace the valve body assembly and if necessary, some of the other parts if the damage has affected them. Not all transmissions are defective, and I know several others who own Fusions in various recent years that have had no problems whatsoever. One reason I bought a fusion was due to the accolades people I know have given it.

 

Anyway, I'll post the outcome of my service visit next week.

[con_fusion]

From my observation, it would seem the problem is failure to engage or late engagement rather than slipping. This is why they think they can fix it in firmware by simply tweaking the shift timings. It seems they believe it's just a matter of compensating for the slow buildup of fluid pressure by starting the re-engagement process sooner, or by repositioning the home position of the regulator solenoid to achieve a better fluid seal. The problem with these approaches is that they only work today, and fail to be effective as the transmission wears further.

 

The once and for all solution, from what I have read, is to replace the valve body assembly and if necessary, some of the other parts if the damage has affected them. Not all transmissions are defective, and I know several others who own Fusions in various recent years that have had no problems whatsoever. One reason I bought a fusion was due to the accolades people I know have given it.

 

Anyway, I'll post the outcome of my service visit next week.

 

You can read the thread I started with my 2010 and my 6F35 trans issues but I just wanted to mention that I had my valve body replaced along with the clutches, gaskets, seals (essentially, the 10B15 rebuild) and I still experienced flares after that. So, I'm not sure that would be a "fix". Interesting thing was after they reset my keep alive memory, I haven't really seen a flare since then although I have a theory that over time my "adaptive" programming gets corrupted somehow. So I expect the flares will return.

 

My issues originally started when the car sat for several days, then flares on first drive away but only after getting down the block and having to accelerate on a main street. Only for a few shifts. Ford engineering claimed that extended periods of the car sitting could allow fluid to drain from a solenoid close to the vent tube and the first few shifts could flare in order to purge the air in the solenoid. They stated that would be considered "normal". Can you see that happening with Mike Rowe in a Fusion commercial?

 

An important note is the 6F35 transmission was introduced in the 2010 SE, SEL Fusions. Before that, it was the Aisin transmission across the board. So if you talk to a Fusion owner with a 2009 or earlier, you may not be comparing apples to apples.

Edited August 25, 2011 by con_fusion

[Jo7hs2]

An important note is the 6F35 transmission was introduced in the 2010 SE, SEL Fusions. Before that, it was the Aisin transmission across the board. So if you talk to a Fusion owner with a 2009 or earlier, you may not be comparing apples to apples.

 

Minor correction: They also used the Mazda FNR5. I think they used it only on I4 engines.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Jo7hs2

[MTLFusion2010]

From my observation, it would seem the problem is failure to engage or late engagement rather than slipping. This is why they think they can fix it in firmware by simply tweaking the shift timings. It seems they believe it's just a matter of compensating for the slow buildup of fluid pressure by starting the re-engagement process sooner, or by repositioning the home position of the regulator solenoid to achieve a better fluid seal. The problem with these approaches is that they only work today, and fail to be effective as the transmission wears further.

 

The once and for all solution, from what I have read, is to replace the valve body assembly and if necessary, some of the other parts if the damage has affected them. Not all transmissions are defective, and I know several others who own Fusions in various recent years that have had no problems whatsoever. One reason I bought a fusion was due to the accolades people I know have given it.

 

Anyway, I'll post the outcome of my service visit next week.

 

I too chose the Fusion because of the accolades given to it. Back in late 2009, the transmission and sloshing/waterfall sound problem have not been reported for the 2010 model year yet. When I visited Fusion forums I was impressed by the tone and general mood of posts. People were reporting very few problems. And problems seemed to be short-lived or properly corrected. I took the plunge and bought a 2010 model. Soon after, posts started appearing to complain about transmission flares, hard-shifts, and water gurgling sounds coming from the dash. It is sad to see that the 2012 model year has the same issues.

The tone and mood of posts on the forums has definitely taken a turn south since then.

 

The 2010-2012 MY Fusions are just a stop-gap effort by Ford until the long anticipated switch to the Mondeo platform for the 2013 MY. Ford, I believe, is not interested in spending millions of dollars fixing problems for a design they are ditching an a few months.

Those suckers (us) that bought (what is otherwise a great car) are on their own. The hell with customer satisfaction.

 

To add insult to injury, Ford dealers here in Montreal are pathetic. I now hear horror stories of other Ford owners with really sloppy work (that would be a great topic for another thread). In addition to the two problems mentioned earlier, My engine sounds funny. I took it to a few private shops they agreed something is wrong but suggested to go to a Ford dealer to have it fixed under warranty. The service manager at the Ford dealer could not diagnose the problem so they tried to convince me that there is nothing wrong and to return when the engine noises are louder. Ford is not insuring their dealers have competent mechanics.

 

True, not all Fusions are defective. But the number of problems reported seems, at least to me, to indicate a design flaw: Components appear to be designed with little operational tolerances so it is a matter of luck whether the components in your car fall on the right or wrong side of the design specs.

 

Just my $0.02 ...

[ehidle]

Here is the video. I took the local Ford dealer mechanic on a demo ride this morning, and the transmission flared (sort of, it flared, grabbed a bit, flared again, and then finally went into gear - listen closely to the audio to hear it since my hand wasn't that steady). You can also see that it flared a tiny bit between 3rd and 4th.

 

 

I'll keep this thread updated as things progress. What do you guys think about this? This is behavior I have not yet seen in videos posted so far.

[ehidle]

Just as I expected, the ford dealer said there wasn't really anything to go on, but also that the fluid was low and they topped it off, but also could not find any leaks.

 

I really don't like the "no code, no problem" attitude, because for that to be valid, there has to be 100% diagnostic coverage of every conceivable problem. Oh well, I guess I get to play "wait and see."

[JibberJab]

Just as I expected, the ford dealer said there wasn't really anything to go on, but also that the fluid was low and they topped it off, but also could not find any leaks.

 

I really don't like the "no code, no problem" attitude, because for that to be valid, there has to be 100% diagnostic coverage of every conceivable problem. Oh well, I guess I get to play "wait and see."

 

Ugh, I really wasn't expecting this and was hoping for better news. There are a number of YouTubes out there that are mind blowing in comparison to yours, but the problem is clearly unmistakable. I have been researching this topic quite a bit and there are numerous reports of low fluid level, high fluid level, as well as couple of cases where fluid is blowing out of the filler tube. It makes you wonder what is going on at the factory. You would think that the factory would incorporate a fluid delivery system for dispensing precisely metered quantities of transmission fluid to ensure absolute consistency during assembly. This is a process and no one should ever have to make a guess about this sort of thing when producing hundreds of these per day.

 

I've had my share of transmission problems with two VW Passats and unless the car had to be towed, they weren't interested in helping me. I used to tell my wife that the only way my car could ever get repaired was if I walked in the door with the broken part in my hand and actually showed them that it was broken. All I ever got from the dealer was the "no code, no problem" attitude too. Amazing.

 

It's unfortunate but the dealer may be instructed avoid any warranty work without a diagnostic code. I would love to know what they meant by "wait and see." Did the transmission behave the same way after you left the dealer?

[ehidle]

It's unfortunate but the dealer may be instructed avoid any warranty work without a diagnostic code. I would love to know what they meant by "wait and see." Did the transmission behave the same way after you left the dealer?

 

No, but it has to sit for a couple of days before it will exhibit the problem to the degree shown in the video. I can see it very subtly when the car sits overnight, but it's hard to see. It does a "tiny-flare" after an overnight sit, but it's very easy to miss, even with video (due to shaking camera syndrome).

 

Whatever is wrong with these transmissions is not covered by the computer diagnostics (hence, no code). But, something is most certainly wrong, and I just know this is going to be a difficult, time-consuming, and incredibly stressful process to get fixed.

[barjon]

My 2012 SE has 1400 miles on it now, and I experienced the delayed shift from 2nd to 3rd, after the car sat for two days, the first time it made that shift this morning. After that, it behaved normally all day.

[con_fusion]

Hey ehidle,

 

Did the dealer try restting your "keep alive memory"? Just curious. Sometimes they seem to try that.

Edited September 3, 2011 by con_fusion

[ehidle]

My 2012 SE has 1400 miles on it now, and I experienced the delayed shift from 2nd to 3rd, after the car sat for two days, the first time it made that shift this morning. After that, it behaved normally all day.

 

Can you take a video of it the next time your car sits? I think you should take it in to a dealer and notify them of the problem. You might also consider submitting a problem report on Ford's customer service webpage, as well as joining the Ford Fusion + Hybrid facebook page and letting "Marc at Ford" know so he can get it logged into the system.

 

This is not normal behavior for the transmission. I had to drop it at the dealer to let it sit for two days so it would do it in front of them. Also, I would insist that you drive the car to demonstrate the problem to the technician, so they can focus on the car while you focus on the road (and hold the video camera).

 

Documentation is everything for problems like this...

[ehidle]

Hey ehidle,

 

Did the dealer try restting your "keep alive memory"? Just curious. Sometimes they seem to try that.

 

If they did, they did not tell me and did not put it on the service report.

[ehidle]

Well, after another 48 hours of sitting, I took the car out this morning to see if it would flare....

 

Fully expecting that it would, I was surprised when it didn't. There was a bit of hesitation between 2 and 3, but there was no flare at all. So, I guess I am back to "wait and see."

[ctrcbob]

Don't know about the 6F35 transmission you are talking about, but with the Taurus 6F50 and the SHO 6F55 transmissions, there is a TSB for just that problem. Keep after your dealer and he may find some kind of fix.

 

I'm glad I read this thread, as my Continental A/C gave out on me and tomorrow morning, I'm going to my dealer to get it fixed. If it is going to cost me a ton of money, I may just trade it for a used MKS (with the 6F50) or I also have my eye on a new MKZ, both loaded with Navi, etc. Was not sure if the MKZ used the 6Fxx transmission, or the AWF21 transmission that was formally used in the MKZ. Now I know. (Hated the AWF21).

[ehidle]

Okay, I finally had time to let the car sit after the first repair attempt. The transmission flare still exists and is about the same as it was before. I will follow up with video once I get it clipped...

 

ETA: Here it is

 

Edited September 27, 2011 by ehidle

[ehidle]

Does anyone have, or know where I could get access to, an exploded diagram of the 6F35 transmission? I have hired my own Mechanical Engineer to investigate this problem and determine the root cause of the failure.

 

Some specific questions I have:

 

1) Is the regulator bore that is often spoken of part of the valve body assembly?

2) Is my understanding correct that there is some kind of plug or other device, the position of which determines whether and at what rate fluid can flow through the bore? If so, is this device also part of the valve body assembly?

3) What controls the position of said plug or other device, and is that actuating device also part of the VBA.

 

A valve body assembly is $170 (correction: it's a bit more... the body itself is $170... the valves and other things add quite a bit). It would not be beyond my scope of reason to simply buy one to tear it down and investigate possible design flaws.

Edited September 29, 2011 by ehidle

[juice]

I personally know someone that had the valve body & valves replaced in the 6F35 & found out that it still does the FLARE & HARSH SHIFTS........She too went to an outside mechanical engineer (not some backyard mechanic)....& He drove it for 1 week.....His conclusion was that at times the trans would act very normal & shift perfectly, but its the irregular intermittent problems that make him say it not a design flaw........but rather a TSS (turbine speed sensor) or something electronic.......The engineer said the way the 6F35 is designed is to lock & unlock the torque converter as it shifts to provide SMOOTH SHIFTING between gears but the timing is off of that sequence a little enough to make everything seemed confused....the sporadic incidents makes him conclude that it is a sensor that is bad or even wiring from the sensor is getting wet......NO DESIGN FLAW mechanically but maybe a design flaw electronically. ALSO, the engineer said that it could be something simple as LOW FLUID & the dipstick was calibrated wrong from Ford.....WOULD FORD BE SO STUPID TO DO THAT?!?!?!?!? AND NOT REALIZE IT YET??!!??!!

[con_fusion]

Does anyone have, or know where I could get access to, an exploded diagram of the 6F35 transmission? I have hired my own Mechanical Engineer to investigate this problem and determine the root cause of the failure.

 

I bought a DVD with the workshop manuals (on eBay) for my 2010. I think it was around $20. There is a whole section for the 6F35 with a lot of diagrams. You might check and see if there is one for the 2012.