2010 - Clunking when reversing

[MTLFusion2010]

Yesterday I noticed that our Fusion (2010 2.5I4 6speed Auto) started making a loud clunking sound. It happens once when rolling somewhere between a foot and a yard after switching from D to R or vice versa. Of course I am calling the dealer first thing Monday morning, but would like to know if anybody had this on their car and if so how severe is it.

[con_fusion]

Yesterday I noticed that our Fusion (2010 2.5I4 6speed Auto) started making a loud clunking sound. It happens once when rolling somewhere between a foot and a yard after switching from D to R or vice versa. Of course I am calling the dealer first thing Monday morning, but would like to know if anybody had this on their car and if so how severe is it.

 

I have not had this issue with my 2010 but what you described kind of sounds like TSB 10-21-9: tsb

 

Does this happen during a "rolling engagement"?

 

Of course if you have had a recent PCM flash you would think this would be included anyway.

Edited September 26, 2011 by con_fusion

[FusionDiffusion]

If it happens while switching between forward and reverse gears, I would be suspicious of the engine mounts or possibly the torque converter. Does the clunk still happen if you keep your foot on the brake while switching between R, D, R, etc? Could also be some kind of suspension or bearing problem.

 

I don't think the TSB would apply here since the transmission isn't shifting gears that soon (and there's only one reverse gear).

 

Let us know what they find.

[MTLFusion2010]

Thanks for your responses, my panic is down .

 

@con_fusion: Thanks for the TSB link. It does not appear to be the case since the part that talks about harsh rolling engagements describes changing into R or D while the car is in motion, my case is not so. Also, I already had that TSB performed on my car (incidentally, my car still flares if left parked for a few days).

 

@FusionDifusion: I think you are correct, an engine mount or torque converter explanation starts to make sense. Maybe, due to a loose mount, the engine rests leaning forward or backward depending on the direction of the torque, and that would explain why it happens only once after a drive direction change, where the engine rests on its new position until another drive direction (i.e torque direction) change takes place.

 

The clunk does not happen *while* I switch from R to D ( and I habitually keep my foot on the brake as I do so), but after I release the brakes and have rolled a foot or so.

I also noticed that sometimes (especially when I go forward after reversing) the clunk happens only on first application of brake after starting to roll. This could also support a loose engine mount since applying the brakes could cause the engine to 'tilt' into its new rest position, if it hadn't already.

 

I will be at the dealer in a few days and will post an update.

 

Tally after 18 months of ownership:

1. Cracked leather on the steering wheel (as delivered)

2. Loose driver side sun visor (after 2 months)

3. Air in the cooling system (the famous sloshing/gurgling) issue (after 6 months)

4. Cold-weather rattles in the dashboard (after 9 months)

5. Engine/Transmission noise when coasting (after 12 months)

6. Transmission Flares (discovered after 16 months, could have been there before)

7. Map-light on/off switches are loose and are rattling and buzzing over any kind of uneven pavement (after 17moths)

8. Clunking sound (Engine mount?) (after 18 months)

 

Does that qualify as a lemon? (even if it does not, it does qualify me as the most unlucky Fusion owner!)

 

I am convinced my car was built on a Monday that followed 3 days of free-beer Fiesta.

... Cheers

:beerchug:

[CN87]

Thought I would chime in here. There was ONE single day where I noticed a delayed clunk when shifting into R or D in my Sport. I took it to the dealership and they ran diagnostics, took it for a ride, and couldn't find a thing wrong. Sometimes I notice it, but I think it was just an anomaly or me being overly cautious.

[stewsco]

Brake pad moving forward or rearward in the caliper. Fairly common on newer disc brake systems due to tolerances for heat expansion. Re-lubing rear of pads will sometimes reduce or eliminate the noise. Not harmful.

[FusionDiffusion]

Brake pad moving forward or rearward in the caliper. Fairly common on newer disc brake systems due to tolerances for heat expansion. Re-lubing rear of pads will sometimes reduce or eliminate the noise. Not harmful.

Good theory. I wonder if yanking the hand brake a few times would tighten up the adjusters and lock in the pads more? Maybe he has a loose caliper or something.

MTLFusion, you must have had a stroke of bad luck with all your problems there. Sorry bud. I would be curious to know your build date. Maybe you got one of the early models. Look at the code on the bottom of your VIN sticker on your door jamb.

Knock of the first digit and the last four and you get 20100607, so this car was built on 6/7/2010, a Monday. Mine was made on Thursday, June 10, 2010 and I've had a grand total of zero problems. At least you'll know if it was built on a Monday. You might want to cross reference it to any Mexican holidays or soccer games...

[dabige]

MTLFusion, you must have had a stroke of bad luck with all your problems there. Sorry bud. I would be curious to know your build date. Maybe you got one of the early models. Look at the code on the bottom of your VIN sticker on your door jamb.

Interesting, just checked my sticker, and that code you circled is nowhere to be found. I have everything to the right of it though.

@MTLFusion: I feel your pain. On the plus side, I know my service manager really well. Really nice guy, just rather would have met him over a beer and a football game rather than problems with a new car. In addition to the topic of this thread, I can relate to items 3, 4, and 6 (only mine are very minor and just as infrequent) from your list. Also had to deal with a grinding noise when braking at high speeds; a surfacing of the rotors/pads took care of that. Still have occasionally quirky 2>3 shifts, which are much better since the last visit (apparently the first two solenoid sequences weren't properly "readdressed" to the PCM after my engine was swapped). I'm hoping that the rumored Q4 programming update may cure this completely. To me, the problem seems 100% software-related in my car. No odd noises or odors of burning transmission components. Often, the shifts are as smooth as butter through the spectrum.

Back to the topic of the clunk, mine happened the same times you describe, but only once or twice a day. It was most noticeable when in a garage; very hard/impossible to hear when outside. I also thought the engine mounts, but there were no visual signs of them being the culprit. Mine was narrowed down to the pads shifting in the calipers. Initially, they were going to clean and re-lube, but after finding the anti-rattle clips could not be adjusted, the manager had the pads completely replaced with new OEMs. After that was done, the clunk has disappeared.

Edited September 27, 2011 by dabige

[FusionDiffusion]

Interesting, just checked my sticker, and that code you circled is nowhere to be found. I have everything to the right of it though.

 

Well, you should still have the month/year on the upper left. A similar code is also on the top of your window sticker if you still have it. If you don't, Ford has a copy online. Use this link

 

http://www.inventory.ford.com/services/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMHK7B85BGA61326

and replace the VIN at the end with your own. The build date on this Explorer is 4/28/2011. You should get a nice PDF copy of the original sticker. Also useful for buying/selling.

[dabige]

Well, you should still have the month/year on the upper left. A similar code is also on the top of your window sticker if you still have it. If you don't, Ford has a copy online. Use this link

 

http://www.inventory.ford.com/services/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FMHK7B85BGA61326

and replace the VIN at the end with your own. The build date on this Explorer is 4/28/2011. You should get a nice PDF copy of the original sticker. Also useful for buying/selling.

 

The window sticker will only give you the approximate date that your vehicle was put into the production order at the factory. Your actual build date is usually within two weeks (link) of the date code on the window sticker. If you want your exact build date, you need to consult your OASIS report.

Edited September 28, 2011 by dabige

[MTLFusion2010]

The window sticker will only give you the approximate date that your vehicle was put into the production order at the factory. Your actual build date is usually within two weeks (link) of the date code on the window sticker. If you want your exact build date, you need to consult your OASIS report.

 

Hello dabige,

Do you hail from Canada? I think our door stickers have a different format than US cars.

My appointment is tomorrow morning (Thursday) and I hope they will be as efficient and competent as your dealership. I will post what they find by the end of the day.

I will try to remember to ask if they can pull out the exact build date from OASIS.

Cheers..

[dabige]

Hello dabige,

Do you hail from Canada? I think our door stickers have a different format than US cars.

My appointment is tomorrow morning (Thursday) and I hope they will be as efficient and competent as your dealership. I will post what they find by the end of the day.

I will try to remember to ask if they can pull out the exact build date from OASIS.

Cheers..

Nope, not quite that far north, but the company I work for does have an office in Richmond Hill, ON (which I still haven't been to). Don't know if country of purchase makes a difference, at least if the photo in FusionDiffusion's post is of his actual car, since he appears to be another fellow cheesehead. I don't know if I would go as far to say as my dealer is efficient, as it took many trips to get where I am today. I will say that if you're persistent with them, they won't give up trying to fix the problem. Also never once had to argue to get a loaner car. The brake issue alone took 3 trips alone...one to diagnose the noise and "fix" it, one to fix the high-speed braking noise, and a third for final adjustments (could hear an intermittent ticking noise of something not being true/releasing completely.

 

Best of luck in your service trip.

[MTLFusion2010]

A fruitless trip to the dealer today.

They wanted o keep the car for the day to diagnose the problem. They just cannot understand that we *need* these cars to conduct our daily routines. Could not leave the car as I need it today. Rescheduled for next week when I can make alternate arrangements.

 

Do they think that we are all a bunch of multi-millionaires with 8-car garages at our disposal? If I give up my car for the day, I have to either rent another (they refuse to give a loaner) or use cabs for the day, neither are expenses I am willing to incur after buying a brand new car.

 

My last three cars were GM and I had not visited the dealer for the three cars combined as many times as I had to go to my Ford dealer for the Fusion.

I lost confidence in my Ford dealer when they tried to convince me that the gurgling sound and transmission flares are 'normal' operation. I also disliked their attitude when I asked about the misalignment of my front bumper. They were very defensive pointing that I had scraped the bottom of the bumper. Doh! Yes I did and I am asking about how to fix it !!! But I heard horror stories about the other dealers in my area (personal experiences of close friends) so I am sticking with the lesser of the evils.

 

Looking for the bright side, I hope they would resolve the problem next week. This car's problems and Ford's attitude are testing my patience. I will definitely dump both at the first opportunity.

 

Sorry for the rant, next post will be more to the point.

[FusionDiffusion]

The window sticker will only give you the approximate date that your vehicle was put into the production order at the factory. Your actual build date is usually within two weeks (link) of the date code on the window sticker. If you want your exact build date, you need to consult your OASIS report.

 

Well, I will concede dabige is right on this one. I looked at my own door sticker and window sticker and the codes aren't there. I knew about the codes from some other Ford forums I read, but I guess they aren't on all of Ford's products like I assumed. The door sticker is from a Mustang, BTW. My guess is it has to do with where the vehicle was made. All the Fusions/Milans/MKZs are made in Hermosillo, Mexico. Maybe the US made cars have the codes on the stickers. Sorry guys. :unsure:

 

MTL, I think you deserve to rant a little. The dealers around here ask if you need a rental when you make the appointment on the phone even. Maybe you should write a letter to Ford's customer service division. I don't know if it will help or not, but at least you can feel like you've complained to someone! I write complaint letters cause it makes me feel better. I don't expect a response from all of them though.

[MTLFusion2010]

Finally got the car to the dealer and they determined it was a loose brake pad (I am no mechanic so I have to buy what they say). So 'stewsco' you were right on!

A $100 later for a 'brake maintenance job' and the sound appears to be gone for now.

[bbf2530]

Finally got the car to the dealer and they determined it was a loose brake pad (I am no mechanic so I have to buy what they say). So 'stewsco' you were right on!

A $100 later for a 'brake maintenance job' and the sound appears to be gone for now.

 

 

Hi MTL. What was the actual diagnosis noted on your repair order? :D

 

Here is why I ask: Assuming from your screen name that your Fusion is a 2010, you have a 3 year/36,000 mile New Car Warranty. So as long as you are still within the 36,000 mile limit, you should have had no out-of-pocket expense for that repair. A "loose brake pad" is a defect in material or workmanship, not a normal wear and tear item. Therefore it is covered under Warranty (in the U.S., anyway).

 

Keep us updated and good luck. :beerchug:

[MTLFusion2010]

Hi MTL. What was the actual diagnosis noted on your repair order? :D

 

Here is why I ask: Assuming from your screen name that your Fusion is a 2010, you have a 3 year/36,000 mile New Car Warranty. So as long as you are still within the 36,000 mile limit, you should have had no out-of-pocket expense for that repair. A "loose brake pad" is a defect in material or workmanship, not a normal wear and tear item. Therefore it is covered under Warranty (in the U.S., anyway).

 

Keep us updated and good luck. :beerchug:

Hi bbf

Work order is in codes and the little 'readable language' is in French, I read neither fluently . The loose brake pad is what they verbally communicated to me, but they claimed that this falls under 'brake maintenance' so they charged me for what they refer to as they 1Yr/24000 KM brake maintenance job.

I envy our neighbors to the south. You appear to enjoy better dealership quality and service. Dealers around here leave a lot to be desired.

There was little room to argue with their decision. Ford (the company) will not take my side over a $100 repair (I tried to involve them with a more substantial dispute I had with the dealer I bought my car from and the lesson learned from that experience was: I am on my own).

 

I had scraped the bottom of my front bumper on a high curb and as a result the bumpers skin came off the holding clips on the side of the car close to the headlight, Now the line between the bumper and the front fender forward of the front wheel has a slightly noticeable gap. So when I left the car at the dealer for a the brake fix, I asked for an estimate to fix the bumper in terms of time and cost.

When I picked up the car, the answer on the work order translates to something like:

'Gap between bumper and fender: Front bumper already accidented '

Duh! I know that, I already told them so!!!! I was not asking for it to be fixed under warranty, but I guess they are so defensive in their attitude that they did not even listen to my request in the first place. With an attitude like that, I could see there was little hope arguing that the brake caliper noise is a warranty issue.

It pains me to say this, because I really liked this car when I bought it, but life is too short to waste butting heads with a company that does not care and a dealership network that is incompetent and unreasonable.

This is my first Ford, but when the time comes, I will move on to a different brand and not look back.

In the meanwhile, I am thankful for the good folks, like yourself, on this forum who can help me survive this experience.

Cheers..

[MTLFusion2010]

The clunking is back.

I will take an appointment with the dealer. But I need to be prepared for any kind of b******t they may throw my way to weasel their way out of this, because judging from past visists, this is what I expect them to do.

I need your help in enlightening me to the issues around the problem so that I do not end up in a shouting match at the dealer. I need to go calm, collected, and knowledgeable of the problem.

 

So assuming the original problem was a brake pad, what would cause a brake pad to clunk this way? How come I never had this issue with any of the 8 cars I owned before? Is it the design of brake components in the Fusion that leads to a pad having so much play to start clunking around?

What is it that they may have done on my last visit to hide/stop the noise for this short while?

I know you will refer me to the work order, but all that piece of paper shows is :

 

17900 FAIR ENTERTIEN DES FREINS AUX 4 ROUES , NETTOYER ET LUBRIFIER SLIDE PINS ET SUPPORTS DE PLAQUETTES, OK .

 

Which translates to:

 

PERFORM BRAKE MAINTENANCE FOR 4 WHEELS , CLEAN AND LUBRICATE SLIDE PINS AND PAD SUPPORTS.

 

Does anybody know what "maintenance" means in this work order?

 

I am not a mechanic but shouldn't the calipers keep the pads from wobbling? Could it be a bad caliper?

 

What should I ask the dealer for?

 

B.T.W. When they first diagnosed the problem, I asked if I should perform the maintenance immediately and the SM said yes because this is a safety issue, then he gave me a non-convincing explanation to support his argument (something along the line that if the brake pads are not fixed they may be in a position to heat up because of the air passing between the rotor and the pads which leads to brake failure). Although I almost ripped myself laughing at this explanation, I held my face straight and decided not to challenge him and go ahead with the maintenance job.

 

Cheers...

[MTLFusion2010]

Hello,

I need your help on this one, pleeease.

As I mentioned, the clunking is back. I took it to the dealer but they were swamped at the time with winter tire changes so they asked me to schedule an appointment for after the new year. In order to have a fruitful encounter, I would like to know if this issue should be covered under the new vehicle warranty which is still in effect.. Yes, I read the warranty but my lack of mechanical knowledge prevents me from fully knowing what applies in my case.

On the first visit, the dealer suggested performing the brake maintenance procedure ( cleaning and lubricating some components). Obviously there is more than that, I think there may be a broken spring or something.

Your help is needed and highly appreciated

Thanks in advance.

[con_fusion]

Hello,

I need your help on this one, pleeease.

As I mentioned, the clunking is back. I took it to the dealer but they were swamped at the time with winter tire changes so they asked me to schedule an appointment for after the new year. In order to have a fruitful encounter, I would like to know if this issue should be covered under the new vehicle warranty which is still in effect.. Yes, I read the warranty but my lack of mechanical knowledge prevents me from fully knowing what applies in my case.

On the first visit, the dealer suggested performing the brake maintenance procedure ( cleaning and lubricating some components). Obviously there is more than that, I think there may be a broken spring or something.

Your help is needed and highly appreciated

Thanks in advance.

 

Are you sure it's brake related and not transmission related? Just wondering if the "clunk" is some type of harsh engagement. Anyway, if you think it might be related to the trans, there is the mysterious new 11-11-23 tsb that applies to the 2010 with the 6F35 transmission. Good luck.

[MTLFusion2010]

Are you sure it's brake related and not transmission related? Just wondering if the "clunk" is some type of harsh engagement. Anyway, if you think it might be related to the trans, there is the mysterious new 11-11-23 tsb that applies to the 2010 with the 6F35 transmission. Good luck.

 

I am not a mechanic and do not pretend to be, so I cannot be sure one way or another. It may be transmission or engine mounts but I do think it is brake related. When I back-out of my parking spot the clunk happens as I touch the brakes to stop and shift into D. Then I hear the clunk again when I apply the brakes again after few meters (yards) when I slow down for a speed bump. I do not hear it again until I stop and back up and hit the brakes to stop, and so on...

 

Although I am extremely frustrated with Ford dealerships in my area, I do want to put every possible effort to work positively with my current dealer's service department, and for that I need to know the problem as well as my rights and obligations so I can politely reject any BS.

 

Given my description, is it possible to narrow down the possible reasons ? And if so, would the cause be covered under warranty or not?

 

Cheers....

Edited December 9, 2011 by MTLFusion2010

[stewsco]

Hello,

I need your help on this one, pleeease.

As I mentioned, the clunking is back. I took it to the dealer but they were swamped at the time with winter tire changes so they asked me to schedule an appointment for after the new year. In order to have a fruitful encounter, I would like to know if this issue should be covered under the new vehicle warranty which is still in effect.. Yes, I read the warranty but my lack of mechanical knowledge prevents me from fully knowing what applies in my case.

On the first visit, the dealer suggested performing the brake maintenance procedure ( cleaning and lubricating some components). Obviously there is more than that, I think there may be a broken spring or something.

Your help is needed and highly appreciated

Thanks in advance.

 

 

As noted in my previous post, what you are describing sounds exactly like the condition that I have experienced on both a 2006 Fusion and now 2010 MKZ. "Brake maintenance" or simply relubing the pads shims and slides has always eliminated the noise for me. I did this twice on the Fusion and only once so far on the MKZ. Inspecting the brake components on disassembly shows no wear or defect of any part, but always a lack of lube in the proper places. This last time doing the maintenance on the MKZ brake system I used what is supposed to be a very high quality durable silicone grease, the exact brand name doesn't come to mind. The only reason that I can come up with for needing to relube the brake system periodically is the fact that I wash my cars so often including wheels, inner and outer surfaces, calipers and wheel wells. Maybe the cleaners combined with the water pressure scrub away the lube?????? Not sure but the best that I have been able to come with. Dealer service offers no better explanation and claims all is well with brake system.

 

Anyway brakes work well, have hardly any wear, currently at 12000 on the MKZ. Pretty simple maintenance to do yourself. Good Luck! I do understand your aggravation, I am very sensitive to noises and other harshness as well but I do not feel that this is an issue that would be damaging or dangerous.

[MTLFusion2010]

Hello stewsco

Thanks for the feedback. If you could be kind enough to educate me some more about the cause of the noise.

 

For the purpose of my simplified discussion, consider the brake assembly being viewed from the front of the vehicle,

the pads move in and out towards/away from the rotor(disk). They are pushed in by the calipers, but what pulled them out when the calipers cease to press? I doubt they are left to play along this axis of motion. I assume there some sort of a spring action that pulls them out.

Is it this motion that needs lubrication?

Also, the sound is produced by motion in a different direction ( up/down, along the direction of rotation of the disk) , again my simple understanding of brake components tells me nothing expect the rotor should move along that direction, right?

 

Cheers

[FusionDiffusion]

There are no springs on the front calipers, but the rubber piston seal acts sort of like a spring. When you apply brake pressure, the rubber seal stretches a tiny amount as the piston moves. When you release the brakes, the lack of pressure behind the piston causes the pads to be pushed back by the rotor, and the little bit of stretch in the rubber pulls the pads back just enough to not be in contact with the rotor any more. The whole process only involves movement on the order of millimeters, so no big spring is necessary. If the pads drag a tiny bit on the rotors, it won't be a problem because there is no pressure behind them so friction is minute.

 

The noise occurs because the pads are sliding in the axis of rotation. When braking, the wheel and rotors want to keep spinning, so when the pads grab the rotor want to pull them along in a circle. The caliper and pad mounts are designed to hold this force so the caliper doesn't get ripped off and go for a ride with the rotor. When the clips are loose or bad, the pads can move fore and aft in the mounts, so when you apply the brakes the pads move a little bit with the rotor until the edge of the pad hit the side of the mount. When this happens you hear the metal clink. When you change direction and apply the brakes, the loose pad moves in the opposite direction until the other edge hits, and you get another clink. Servicing and lubricating the pad bosses and sliders ensures the pads stay tight in their mounts so they can't move back and forth in their mounts. When everything is tight, there is no movement, and no noises.

[stewsco]

Hello stewsco

Thanks for the feedback. If you could be kind enough to educate me some more about the cause of the noise.

 

For the purpose of my simplified discussion, consider the brake assembly being viewed from the front of the vehicle,

the pads move in and out towards/away from the rotor(disk). They are pushed in by the calipers, but what pulled them out when the calipers cease to press? I doubt they are left to play along this axis of motion. I assume there some sort of a spring action that pulls them out.

Is it this motion that needs lubrication?

Also, the sound is produced by motion in a different direction ( up/down, along the direction of rotation of the disk) , again my simple understanding of brake components tells me nothing expect the rotor should move along that direction, right?

 

Cheers

 

 

There are 2 linear springs that fit one end into a hole of each end of both pads creating a constant pressure outward or open on each pad. There is no lubrication required for these. Using a similar example to yours: consider the brake assembly viewed from the side, looking directly at the left front wheel. Cutting away the wheel and the outer caliper surface, you are left looking at the backside of the outer brake pad or actually the backside of one of the two thin shims that fit on the backside of each pad. These shims are the exact shape of the pad but only about as thick as light sheet metal. The pads and shims rest in the caliper bracket. Using the same point of view, when the brakes are applied the pads are kept from moving along the face of the rotor clockwise or counter clockwise by this bracket. They fit snuggly but there is a very small amount of play to allow for heat expansion. When you are moving forward and hit the brakes the pads and shims are subject to a counterclockwise force along the face of the rotor. If you then stop and reverse and apply the brakes the opposite occurs. The pad and shims are subject to a clockwise force along the face of the rotor. The very small amount of play in the fit allows for some movement. If the backs of the pads and the shims and also the slides that the pads sit in on each end of the caliper bracket are lubed properly, the movement is easy and not sudden or harsh and you don't hear the "clack". If on the other hand these parts aren't lubed properly, there can be some sticking of the shims and pads at one end or the other of the bracket and when pressure is applied by braking you get a sudden movement of these parts clockwise or counter and "clack" when they hit the other end of the bracket. Forgive me if that sounds clear as mud. For a good diagrahm of the brake system go to fordparts.com, search for parts for Fusion, MKZ, Milan and brake assembly. They have a pretty good diagrahm of the brake system showing all parts. Again Good Luck!