Motorcraft Premium Automatic Transmission Fluid

[ctrcbob]

The 6 Speed Automatic calls for Motorcraft Premium Automatic Transmission Fluid, Part #XT-8-QAW, Spec WSS-M2C924-A. I think this is the same transmission used in the Ford FiveHundred. The Fusion and FiveHundred have been out for a while now, (over a year and a half anyway), so just for the heck of it, I thought I would pick up a quart from my local Ford Dealer. Dream on. Did not have any. Parts Department told me that the price was $7.27 a quart, but does not have any. When I asked what they would do if someone has transmission problems and the Transmission Tech needs to refill, the answer I got was that they would special order the fluid when someone comes in for transmission service. What a joke.

 

Owners Manual says not to use Mercon or Mercon-V as it will ruin the transmission. Why in the world do they have to have so many fluids. I understand that the fluid for the CVT is different yet. I can understand when different manufactures (Ford, GM, DC, Honda, Toyota) would have different fluids, but why can't one manufacturer have the same fluid for all their cars, or even for all their cars in a given year.

 

Understand, I don't need any at the moment. I just like to have a quart, just for emergencies. (Grrrr).

[akirby]

The 6 Speed Automatic calls for Motorcraft Premium Automatic Transmission Fluid, Part #XT-8-QAW, Spec WSS-M2C924-A. I think this is the same transmission used in the Ford FiveHundred. The Fusion and FiveHundred have been out for a while now, (over a year and a half anyway), so just for the heck of it, I thought I would pick up a quart from my local Ford Dealer. Dream on. Did not have any. Parts Department told me that the price was $7.27 a quart, but does not have any. When I asked what they would do if someone has transmission problems and the Transmission Tech needs to refill, the answer I got was that they would special order the fluid when someone comes in for transmission service. What a joke.

 

Owners Manual says not to use Mercon or Mercon-V as it will ruin the transmission. Why in the world do they have to have so many fluids. I understand that the fluid for the CVT is different yet. I can understand when different manufactures (Ford, GM, DC, Honda, Toyota) would have different fluids, but why can't one manufacturer have the same fluid for all their cars, or even for all their cars in a given year.

 

Understand, I don't need any at the moment. I just like to have a quart, just for emergencies. (Grrrr).

 

Maybe because Aisin builds the 6 spd automatic, not Ford. You can use any fluid you want as long as it meets the specs. Take the specs to Autozone and check them.

[ctrcbob]

Good idea, but I doubt that Auto Zone, or Discount Auto, or any of them will have this fluid. Perhaps the next time I'm in there, I will start reading the backs of ATF bottles to see if any of them have Ford Spec M2C924-A listed. I will hate to find out that this is a "Captive Fluid".

 

It may be worthwhile to phone various oil companies (ExonMobil, Castrol, AmsOil, etc.) to see if they have a fluid that meet this spec. Just may try that when I have nothing better to do.

[akirby]

Good idea, but I doubt that Auto Zone, or Discount Auto, or any of them will have this fluid. Perhaps the next time I'm in there, I will start reading the backs of ATF bottles to see if any of them have Ford Spec M2C924-A listed. I will hate to find out that this is a "Captive Fluid".

 

It may be worthwhile to phone various oil companies (ExonMobil, Castrol, AmsOil, etc.) to see if they have a fluid that meet this spec. Just may try that when I have nothing better to do.

 

Toyota uses a lot of Aisin trannys so I bet the fluid is more common than you think.

[ctrcbob]

In www.botistheoilguy.com it says that both the Toyota T-IV and the Mobil-3309 are for the Aisin transmissions.

 

I don't "need" any, I just like to have a quart just for emergencies.

[urnews]

Toyota uses a lot of Aisin trannys so I bet the fluid is more common than you think.

Allen,

I still believe that Bob has a good point: Shouldn't the dealer stock replacement fluids for the vehicles that they sell? It should be mandated by FoMoCo. Today's automotive world is way too complex. What if you have a problem with the six-speed automatic. Since somebody (Aisin?) builds it, who works on it, the trusty Ford service department mechanic who may be a teenage high school drop-out?

 

I long for the days when the world, automotive and otherwise, was less complicated. Replacement of an alternator, for example, on our 2000 Focus cost $300 because of where it was located and the labor involved to get to it. It's maybe a $100 part (with trade-in) tops. I am sure there are thousands of similar horror stories out there.

 

There was a time when places like Pep Boys, Sears, Montgomery Ward (out of business now) could be trusted to do simple repairs, because they were, well, just that: Simple enough for a do-it-yourselfer or a shade tree mechanic.

 

No more. I wouldn't trust anybody to work on our '07 Fusion but the Ford dealer, at least for the first 36,000 miles, maybe a lot more. Even then, I will worry about the work being done properly. To repeat, the automotive world has gotten way too complex. The consumer is helpless, is being shafted royally.

 

The reliability statistics for the Fusion were a major factor in our decision to buy one. Obviously miles per gallon for the AWD was not part of the criteria. LOL. Boz

[urnews]

Maybe because Aisin builds the 6 spd automatic, not Ford. You can use any fluid you want as long as it meets the specs. Take the specs to Autozone and check them.

Allen,

This is a really dumb question, but why would Ford put another manufacturer's transmission in a Ford product? Doesn't FoMoCo have the ability, the know-how, to build its own transmissions? There is something wrong with that picture, in my book. What other components go to the lowest bidder? What is the consumer really buying when they purchase a Ford, Lincoln or Mercury. (Why is it a Ford, Lincoln, Mercury dealer as opposed to a Ford, Mercury, Lincoln dealer -- ascending price range?)

 

Given the overlapping price structure I'd say it is a safe bet that the Mercury brand's future is no better than the Plymouth or Oldsmobile: Soon to disappear. Boz, lots of free time in Salisbury, MD, and the disgruntled owner of a 13 mpg '07 SEL AWD Fusion.

[akirby]

To answer your first question - yes, the dealer should have transmission fluid in the shop. I'm guessing that since the Fusion is so new that nobody has needed a fluid change yet at that dealership. They may not even know that it doesn't use the standard Mercon fluid yet. I can see the tech checking the fluid spec on the first car that needs it, then having to go order some. After that they'll have some on hand. Also in some cases they buy this stuff by the drum, not the bottle, so they may have some in the back for service but none they can sell to you.

 

It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that they would just use Mercon or whatever they had on hand at the time. It's not right but it does happen, especially with oil. Probably not so much now that everything uses 5W-20.

 

As to the second question - Aisin is an independent parts supplier. They supply parts to many manufacturers including Honda and GM, not just Toyota although Toyota owns it.

 

BMW used a GM automatic tranny in their 5 series for years and years. Happens a lot.

 

In a lot of cases it's cheaper to buy a tranny than it is to build it yourself, especially if the volumes aren't huge. And up until just a few months ago Ford did not have a FWD 6 speed tranny when the 6F joint venture with GM debuted in the Edge.

 

In most cases it's not about know-how - it's about plant capacity. It's more efficient for Aisin to have one large plant building trannies for multiple manufacturers than for each mfr to have a small plant of it's own. It's not necessarily the lowest bidder although price is always a factor.

[urnews]

And up until just a few months ago Ford did not have a FWD 6 speed tranny when the 6F joint venture with GM debuted in the Edge.

 

In most cases it's not about know-how - it's about plant capacity. It's more efficient for Aisin to have one large plant building trannies for multiple manufacturers than for each mfr to have a small plant of it's own. It's not necessarily the lowest bidder although price is always a factor.

As is usually the case, your reply was logical and seemingly well-reasoned. Did I understand you correctly, the new Edge has a FWD, six-speed transmission that is a joint GM-Ford venture?

 

Your explanation about the Aisin transmissions makes sense but doesn't this cause confusion in the service department? Even the transmission fluid is different. What reassurance does the customer have that someone in the shop knows which one is the Aisin? It's not like there is a big red flag on it or anything. I can just envision a mechanic adding a pint or quart of the wrong stuff just because no one knew the vehicle came with an Aisin transmission.

 

When it comes to brain surgeons, there necessarily has to be a certain amount of blind faith involved. I don't feel that way about dealership mechanics yet they now manufacture automobiles that you really cannot work on yourself.

 

The more I read, the more I find out, the more I am ask myself why in the world did we buy a $27,105 MSRP Fusion instead of a Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or Kia. The answer is because my wife liked the styling (looks) of the Fusion. That is a poor reason to buy any automobile, but people do it all the time. It's just that I am feeling a bit foolish right about now.

 

Boz

[akirby]

As is usually the case, your reply was logical and seemingly well-reasoned. Did I understand you correctly, the new Edge has a FWD, six-speed transmission that is a joint GM-Ford venture?

 

Your explanation about the Aisin transmissions makes sense but doesn't this cause confusion in the service department? Even the transmission fluid is different. What reassurance does the customer have that someone in the shop knows which one is the Aisin? It's not like there is a big red flag on it or anything. I can just envision a mechanic adding a pint or quart of the wrong stuff just because no one knew the vehicle came with an Aisin transmission.

 

When it comes to brain surgeons, there necessarily has to be a certain amount of blind faith involved. I don't feel that way about dealership mechanics yet they now manufacture automobiles that you really cannot work on yourself.

 

The more I read, the more I find out, the more I am ask myself why in the world did we buy a $27,105 MSRP Fusion instead of a Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or Kia. The answer is because my wife liked the styling (looks) of the Fusion. That is a poor reason to buy any automobile, but people do it all the time. It's just that I am feeling a bit foolish right about now.

 

Boz

 

 

Yes, Ford and GM jointly developed a brand new 6 speed FWD tranny that's being used in the Edge/MKX and will be replacing the Aisin units as they ramp up production. It wasn't ready in time for the Fusion/Milan so they used the Aisin units.

 

You want confusing? The manual 5 speed Getrag tranny used in the 00-02 Lincoln LS used Automatic Transmission Fluid, not gear oil. Any decent mechanic will check the specs before adding any type of fluid nowadays. The old days of universal fluids are gone.

 

Perhaps now that Mulally is mandating platform sharing we'll see more standardization across the products. But the use of outsourced components is not new at all and they all do it to some extent. Delphi used to be part of GM - now more than half their business is other car companies. In this case it usually leads to lower prices AND better quality (would you rather have your stereo designed and built by Ford or Pioneer?)

[ctrcbob]

Mobil's website says that Mobil ATF 3309 meets Fords WSS-M2C924-A spec.

[urnews]

Yes, Ford and GM jointly developed a brand new 6 speed FWD tranny that's being used in the Edge/MKX and will be replacing the Aisin units as they ramp up production. It wasn't ready in time for the Fusion/Milan so they used the Aisin units.

 

You want confusing? The manual 5 speed Getrag tranny used in the 00-02 Lincoln LS used Automatic Transmission Fluid, not gear oil. Any decent mechanic will check the specs before adding any type of fluid nowadays. The old days of universal fluids are gone.

 

Perhaps now that Mulally is mandating platform sharing we'll see more standardization across the products. But the use of outsourced components is not new at all and they all do it to some extent. Delphi used to be part of GM - now more than half their business is other car companies. In this case it usually leads to lower prices AND better quality (would you rather have your stereo designed and built by Ford or Pioneer?)

Allen,

 

You are a wealth of information. I feel dumber by the minute. Ford and GM collaborated on the six-speed automatic transmission now in the Edge/MKX?

 

That's just great. It means that the six-speed Aisin in my brand new 2007 Fusion is already an unloved stepchild, obsolete, a one-of-a-kind castoff, an asterisk, as in * Found only in the 2007 Fusion.

 

Got any more "good" news for me?

 

So, who does build the stock radio for a Fusion? I honestly don't know, or care much. State-of-the-art sound systems in an automobile are a waste of time and money unless a person has to spend several hours a day in a car or they have some sort of fetish.

 

The more I read, the more I learn, the more I am convinced that I just made a $27,105 MSRP mistake by buying a Fusion, one that guzzles gasoline at the rate of 13 miles per gallon in city driving, which constitutes 95 percent of our total driving.

 

I sure hope the Honda or Toyota dealer in town (same owner) treats me kindly when we try to unload this thing. I am sure it will be long before the Michelin Pilot tires begin to wear very much.

 

Boz, sicker by the minute in Salisbury.

[akirby]

Allen,

 

You are a wealth of information. I feel dumber by the minute. Ford and GM collaborated on the six-speed automatic transmission now in the Edge/MKX?

 

That's just great. It means that the six-speed Aisin in my brand new 2007 Fusion is already an unloved stepchild, obsolete, a one-of-a-kind castoff, an asterisk, as in * Found only in the 2007 Fusion.

 

Got any more "good" news for me?

 

So, who does build the stock radio for a Fusion? I honestly don't know, or care much. State-of-the-art sound systems in an automobile are a waste of time and money unless a person has to spend several hours a day in a car or they have some sort of fetish.

 

The more I read, the more I learn, the more I am convinced that I just made a $27,105 MSRP mistake by buying a Fusion, one that guzzles gasoline at the rate of 13 miles per gallon in city driving, which constitutes 95 percent of our total driving.

 

I sure hope the Honda or Toyota dealer in town (same owner) treats me kindly when we try to unload this thing. I am sure it will be long before the Michelin Pilot tires begin to wear very much.

 

Boz, sicker by the minute in Salisbury.

 

 

You know, if you go buy a Toyota then you'll be stuck with that same damn Aisin tranny again. The tranny itself is fine - GM and Ford co-developed theirs because it's cheaper in the long run. It might be slightly better but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference just driving them.

 

I think you're just looking for things to worry about. Relax before you get an ulcer.

[urnews]

You know, if you go buy a Toyota then you'll be stuck with that same damn Aisin tranny again. The tranny itself is fine - GM and Ford co-developed theirs because it's cheaper in the long run. It might be slightly better but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference just driving them.

 

I think you're just looking for things to worry about. Relax before you get an ulcer.

Allen,

 

I didn't say the Aisin was a bad transmission. What I said was it's a shame it's likely to become a "one year only" thing for the 2007 Fusion. That makes this aspect of ownership more complicated and less attractive than it should be. It would have been better to just put the five-speed automatic in, like the 2006 Fusions came with, rather than put the Aisin in for just '07.

 

If I'd had half a brain I would have spent a couple of months on various Internet car forums BEFORE we made the decision to buy a new vehicle, instead of afterward. It's unlikely we would have bought a Fusion, or certainly not a V6, automatic transmission AWD one. Hindsight is always 20-20.

 

My aggravation level has escalated to the point that I even hate to put the key in the ignition switch (which should be illuminated but isn't) because of the "M" word.

 

Boz

[akirby]

I didn't say the Aisin was a bad transmission. What I said was it's a shame it's likely to become a "one year only" thing for the 2007 Fusion. That makes this aspect of ownership more complicated and less attractive than it should be. It would have been better to just put the five-speed automatic in, like the 2006 Fusions came with, rather than put the Aisin in for just '07.

 

The V6 Fusions have ALWAYS used the 6 speed Aisin tranny - since day one. Maybe you're confusing it with the 5 speed automatic that's used in the 4 cylinder models. There was no change for 2007. In fact it probably won't get the 6F joint venture tranny until it gets the 3.5L engine.

[robertlane]

I don't think that it will be a one year only transmission because both GM and Ford really don't have to funding to "go it alone."

 

I believe that GM built and designed the 7-speed automatic transmission in the BMW 7-Series. Does anyone know if this is true?

[urnews]

The V6 Fusions have ALWAYS used the 6 speed Aisin tranny - since day one. Maybe you're confusing it with the 5 speed automatic that's used in the 4 cylinder models. There was no change for 2007. In fact it probably won't get the 6F joint venture tranny until it gets the 3.5L engine.

Allen,

 

Thanks for a very positive post. It made me feel a bit more comfortable. I hope your take on the situation is right on the money. No one wants a powertrain combination that is "no longer available." That all too frequently translates into a major expense if a repair is needed.

 

These are, after all, Fords, not Ferraris.

 

Boz

 

 

I don't think that it will be a one year only transmission because both GM and Ford really don't have to funding to "go it alone."

 

I believe that GM built and designed the 7-speed automatic transmission in the BMW 7-Series. Does anyone know if this is true?

Robert,

 

Are you saying that you believe the six-speed Aisin automotive is likely to remain in the Fusions for a few years? I hope that is what you are saying and that FoMoCo will do exactly that.

 

Boz

[SCOTT07AWD]

The Aisin tranny has been in Ford/Mercury products since '05 model year! 500/Montego/Freestyle also. It probably will be around for awhile. Why worry about it? It suppose to be a great tranny! was used in other vehicles prior to Ford using it.

[urnews]

The Aisin tranny has been in Ford/Mercury products since '05 model year! 500/Montego/Freestyle also. It probably will be around for awhile. Why worry about it? It suppose to be a great tranny! was used in other vehicles prior to Ford using it.

Scott,

 

Very reassuring post. I wasn't worrying about the Aisin, just worrying that it might become a discontinued product too soon, a situation that would make potential future repairs more difficult.

 

As I recall, this thread began because Bob couldn't buy a quart of transmission fluid (XT-8-QAW/WSS-M2C924-A) for the six-speed automatic because his dealer's service department didn't stock it. That's not very reassuring.

[akirby]

I don't think that it will be a one year only transmission because both GM and Ford really don't have to funding to "go it alone."

 

I believe that GM built and designed the 7-speed automatic transmission in the BMW 7-Series. Does anyone know if this is true?

 

Robert

I think Boz's one year only comment was for the Aisin, not the 6F. The 6F will be here for years.

 

I know GM supplied the tranny for either the 5 or 7 series - it was the same one later used in the CTS. But I think it's only a 5 speed, not 7.

[urnews]

Robert

I think Boz's one year only comment was for the Aisin, not the 6F. The 6F will be here for years.

 

I know GM supplied the tranny for either the 5 or 7 series - it was the same one later used in the CTS. But I think it's only a 5 speed, not 7.

Robert and/or Allen,

 

Yes Allen, that is what I meant. So, stated another way, are we back to the Aisin being pulled from the Fusion after 2007 in favor of the 6F? Boz

[akirby]

Robert and/or Allen,

 

Yes Allen, that is what I meant. So, stated another way, are we back to the Aisin being pulled from the Fusion after 2007 in favor of the 6F? Boz

 

The Aisin should be replaced as soon as they have the capacity to produce enough of them. It will go into the 3.5L models first (I'm assuming). I'm sure if it's not here by the 2008 model year then it will appear in the 2009 models.

[ctrcbob]

Why "should" they change the Aisin-Warner transmission to the 6F? I've talked with two different transmission techs at two different dealerships, and they both said they have not seen any problems with the transmission. It's been in the FiveHundred/Montigo and Fusion/Milan/Zephyr(MKZ) since the 05s were introduced. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

[akirby]

Why "should" they change the Aisin-Warner transmission to the 6F? I've talked with two different transmission techs at two different dealerships, and they both said they have not seen any problems with the transmission. It's been in the FiveHundred/Montigo and Fusion/Milan/Zephyr(MKZ) since the 05s were introduced. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

 

a) it's supposed to be slightly more fuel efficient

it's built in the U.S.

c) it's cheaper

[ctrcbob]

Last week, I visited one of the "Big Box Auto Parts Stores" (Advance Auto Parts) and asked them about the Mobil ATF 3309. They tried to look it up, but said that they would have to order a pallet of the stuff.

 

Today, I was at another private Auto Parts Store (for another reason). While there, I asked if they could get Mobil ATF 3309 and how much would it cost per quart.

They looked at me like I was speaking Greek. Could not find anything on it. Kept insisting on calling it Mobil-1 and I kept telling them that it is not synthetic. So much for that.

 

While there, I wanted to pick up a couple quarts of Mercon-V for my Continental. Saw a case of AmsOil Synthetic ATF and the case (and bottles) mentioned that it was good for use with Toyota T-IV specs. OK, after I left, I phoned AmsOil and asked them about using their Synthetic ATF and if it passes Fords M2C924-A spec.

She could not find that, however when I asked about Mobil ATF 3309, she said that it is a replacement for Mobil JWS 3309.

 

With this information, I guess it is OK to replace the fluid (if and when it needs replacing) with the AmsOil Synthetic ATF. Would rather use the Mobil 3309, but I've never seen it, and parts people have never heard of it.