ctrcbob Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Was reading about the 2008 Taurus (former FiveHundred) and Taurus-X (former FreeStyle) and was very surprised to read that the AWD versions of this car will no longer have the CVT. They all will have the "6 Speed" (6F) Transmission. Reason given is that the 3.5 engine is too powerfull for the CVT. (What a bunch of hoowy). The 2005 thru 2007 versions of this car had the CVT in the AWD versions, and the AW 6-Speed in the FWD versions. My sister has a 2005 FreeStyle AWD with the CVT and both she and I love it. If I had my "druthers" when I bought my car, I would have opted for the CVT. Now, if we think its hard to find fluid for the AW 6-Speed, think how hard it will be to service the CVT in a few years. Wonder if Fords German made CVT uses the same CVT fluid as the Nissan CVT, or other cars that use the CVT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Reason given is that the 3.5 engine is too powerfull for the CVT. (What a bunch of hoowy). Why is that a "bunch of hoowy"? CVTs have always been torque challenged. I do think cost was a big factor also but that doesn't mean that torque wasn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnews Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Why is that a "bunch of hoowy"? CVTs have always been torque challenged. I do think cost was a big factor also but that doesn't mean that torque wasn't. What does "torque challenged" mean? The CVTs didn't like torque, require more (less?) of it than other transmissions. What? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtl1977 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 CVTs have reliability and noise issues with the belt and pulley system. It becomes amplified with higher input torque. The Prius, Highlander, RX400h, GS450h, Escape Hybrid all use a planetary gear CVT system. But they don't get the torque advantages of a torque converter that the belt/pulley designs use. GM had a CVT in the Saturn VUE I-4 when it came out back in 2002, didn't last for long. Nissan must have a great CVT design from JATCO. They are expanding their offerings with the CVT. (JATCO is part owned by Nissan like Aisin AW is partly owned by Toyota) AWD versions of the Five Hundred and Montego use the CVT, but FWD and AWD Freestyles all use the CVT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 What does "torque challenged" mean? The CVTs didn't like torque, require more (less?) of it than other transmissions. What? It means that CVTs are limited as to the amount of torque they can handle. The early ones couldn't handle a V6 at all. The newer ones are better (and Nissan's looks like the best of the bunch so far). So it's not inconceivable that the Ford CVT couldn't handle the torque of the 3.5L engine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrcbob Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Well one thing I do know is that my Brother-in-law drives his 2005 FreeStyle AWD with the CVT hard. Every stoplight is like a drag race to him and he pushes it hard. Never had an iota of problems with the transmission. (Did I mention in my previous post that he [and my sister] loves it?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Well one thing I do know is that my Brother-in-law drives his 2005 FreeStyle AWD with the CVT hard. Every stoplight is like a drag race to him and he pushes it hard. Never had an iota of problems with the transmission. (Did I mention in my previous post that he [and my sister] loves it?) There's no problem with the CVT per se. The comment about handling torque isn't about drivability, it's about how much torque it can take before it explodes. Every transmission has a torque limit on the input shaft. CVTs are lower than regular automatics. The transmission max torque limit has to be lower than the engine's max torque. The ZF CFT 30 used in the Five Hundred has a torque limit of 221 lb/ft. Since the 3.5L puts out 250 lb/ft - it can't be used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtl1977 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 The ZF CFT 30 used in the Five Hundred has a torque limit of 221 lb/ft. Since the 3.5L puts out 250 lb/ft - it can't be used. Is it really a ZF trans since it is made at Batavia, which Ford now owns 100%? They kicked ZF to the curb a few years back. The CVT transmissions on the market are limited by torque capacity. I'm sure they could make a new one with higher capacity - but then weight becomes an issue when compared to a conventional trans. http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_ford_zf_no_2/ And from what I have seen, Batavia is on the list of plants to go bye bye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Is it really a ZF trans since it is made at Batavia, which Ford now owns 100%? They kicked ZF to the curb a few years back. The CVT transmissions on the market are limited by torque capacity. I'm sure they could make a new one with higher capacity - but then weight becomes an issue when compared to a conventional trans. http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_ford_zf_no_2/ And from what I have seen, Batavia is on the list of plants to go bye bye. I see that happened in 2004. The article I read was from 2003. I guess they really are Ford trannies, not ZF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnews Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 OK, I'm beginning to get confused -- again. Our V6 SEL AWD 2007 Fusion has a six-speed automatic transmission. Whose? I do know that Ford made its own AWD unit for this car. Which transmission do I have? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 OK, I'm beginning to get confused -- again. Our V6 SEL AWD 2007 Fusion has a six-speed automatic transmission. Whose? I do know that Ford made its own AWD unit for this car. Which transmission do I have? Sorry, Boz. None of this CVT talk is applicable to Fusions, Milans or MkZs. Only Five Hundreds and Montegos and Freestyles. You have the Aisin 6 speed, same as last month. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrcbob Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Boz, Ditto to what Akerby said. We have the 6 Speed Aisin Transmissions made in Japan. The CVT that we have been talking about are made in Germany. Don't know if Ford themselves makes them, or if ZF (Zahnran Frabrik [sp]) makes them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The CVT that we have been talking about are made in Germany. Don't know if Ford themselves makes them, or if ZF (Zahnran Frabrik [sp]) makes them. Bob - read the article. They're made in Batavia - OHIO. Started out as a joint venture with Ford and ZF but Ford bought them out and it's now 100% Ford owned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnews Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Sorry, Boz. None of this CVT talk is applicable to Fusions, Milans or MkZs. Only Five Hundreds and Montegos and Freestyles. You have the Aisin 6 speed, same as last month. Oh I see, said the blind man to his deaf wife. Thanks for clearing that up. I get confused easily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diode Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Bob - read the article. They're made in Batavia - OHIO. Started out as a joint venture with Ford and ZF but Ford bought them out and it's now 100% Ford owned. Exactly correct and also part of the reason why that transmission is being/has been discontinued. The business case for developing that transmission assumed that ZF would also market it to other customers and thus distribute the development costs and run the plant closer to capacity (distributing the plant's fixed costs across more units). Since Ford bought out ZF's share, the potential "other customers" disappeared, the volume dropped and the plant cannot make money (or has to charge the Ford/Mercury vehicle programs an uncompetitive price--making it difficult for them to make money). It is a shame really, they are great transmissions--among the lowest warranty costs of any Ford transmission. We'll probably look to purchase a used Freestyle CVT for our family car once our lease is up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk706_06mazdaspeed6 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 CVTs are great, but expensive to manufacture. the buying public just isn't willing to pay extra for a CVT when they can buy a 6 speed for less. i've got a Aisin 6 speed MTX, my greatest complaint is having to shift to 3rd to hit 60mph. other than that it's a great transmission. on a side note, my father lead the team that designed the CVT for Ford. no more CVTs in 2008 means fewer patent royalty checks. for him to enjoy in retirement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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