OscarTheGrouch Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 So I was just driving along minding my own business and the wrench light came on my elms dropped to 1k and had zero throttle response. Like car was in limp mode but chugging. I stop. Turn it off. Start back and make it another mile till it happens again. Wash rinse repeat and I am able to continue on. Doesn't happen again for 45 miles on the hwy and same thing. Does it twice and hasn't happened again yet. Strikes me as a bad sensor or something but im totally lost. 46k miles. 10se 2.5l. Anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con_fusion Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Yes my friend...it sounds like you have experienced the bad throttle body problem. There are several other threads here about that very thing. If you look in the section for the 2.5 and the 3.0 engines. I'm not entirely sure whether this is only covered by the B2B warranty or something else. Seems to differ. Maybe you can call your dealer and see what they say. check these threads: http://www.fordfusionforum.com/index.php?/topic/8003-strange-problem/page__pid__56394&do=findComment&comment=56394 Edited June 1, 2012 by con_fusion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Replace your throttle body. The car goes into limp mode as you've experienced when the computer detects a problem with the throttle body. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well I think I have 3 months from the dealer that should covetr this. Ill text my sales guy tomorrow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 So I've let Ford have the car for 2 weeks- they couldnt replicate the problem at all. I get the car back and it starts to do it again. Anyway I was FINALLY lucky enough to have it occur when I was near an advance auto. It throws codes for Throttle Actuator stuck open AND closed.... At any rate, I'm obviously not entralled with the Ford Dealer I purchased it from since in the midst or an insurance issue for hitting a tire (long story i wont bore anyone with unless they ask) they kept the car for 2 weeks, allegedly found no problems and returned the car with ZERO miles to empty. Since I'm pretty confident this is not a part replaceable from the throttle body, obviously the whole TB needs to be replaced. Problem. I cannot find one- is this a dealer only item? I saw some on ebay for around 125, but Ill be honest I'm leery of ebay when I cannot find it anywhere else online. Also, I suppose I should ask, how difficult of a swap should / is this? I have some skills, but dont want to go tearing into the entire engine. Suggestions? I'd like to avoid a 300.00 bill at the dealer, especially since I'm on the verge of being laid off etc. HELP.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 If it was my issue, assuming that I am sure I am off all Ford warranty with my FFH, I would take the TB off (not that hard) and clean it good for starters. Use some carb cleaner and get all the carbon out of it. Keep the carb cleaner away from rubber and plastic parts, that's one reason you want to remove the TB from the engine area. A well used TB will have carbon in it and will have a tendency to stick in the closed position, just because of the adhesive effect of the carbon and gas layer in the area. Also lubricate the TB plate shaft, until it moves freely. Make sure the cables move freely while you have them disconnected. If not, pump some WD40 (not carb cleaner) in the ends until they do move easily. I would also make sure that the throttle position sensor TPS rotates easily. I think this is an encoder, and may need some contact spray or WD40 to loosen it up. Should take you about an hour max. There's just not that much to a TB, it's a lot simpler device than the carburetors we grew up with. And usually more reliable. I would definitely not be buying a new TB if the dealer has already looked at it and didn't find anything wrong. Is the speed control function involved in any way? OK, I'll ask what hit your tire? ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 If it was my issue, assuming that I am sure I am off all Ford warranty with my FFH, I would take the TB off (not that hard) and clean it good for starters. Use some carb cleaner and get all the carbon out of it. Keep the carb cleaner away from rubber and plastic parts, that's one reason you want to remove the TB from the engine area. A well used TB will have carbon in it and will have a tendency to stick in the closed position, just because of the adhesive effect of the carbon and gas layer in the area. Also lubricate the TB plate shaft, until it moves freely. Make sure the cables move freely while you have them disconnected. If not, pump some WD40 (not carb cleaner) in the ends until they do move easily. I would also make sure that the throttle position sensor TPS rotates easily. I think this is an encoder, and may need some contact spray or WD40 to loosen it up. Should take you about an hour max. There's just not that much to a TB, it's a lot simpler device than the carburetors we grew up with. And usually more reliable. I would definitely not be buying a new TB if the dealer has already looked at it and didn't find anything wrong. Is the speed control function involved in any way? OK, I'll ask what hit your tire? ;-) First off, just to satisfy everyone- NOTHING hit my tire, *I* hit a tire on the interstate going about 60. I was cruising down the road behind a Subaru Outback. Next thing I know he slammed on his brakes, but didn't stop- got down to maybe 50. By the time I reacted and hit my brakes, an entire 18 wheeler tire flew out from under the Outback and pounded me in the front. Tore off all sorts of crap under neath, busted the radiator brackets, bent (but fortunately didnt break) the radiator, and busted the ac condensor. Not to mention the obvious damage to the front cover etc. All total about 3,000 in damage - fortunately I have insurance. I'll give cleaning the TB a shot, but I swear I thought this was a drive by wire system with no TPS? It spent 2 weeks just at the dealers and they found nothing except probably a car to go get lunch in every day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 First off, just to satisfy everyone- NOTHING hit my tire, *I* hit a tire on the interstate going about 60. I was cruising down the road behind a Subaru Outback. Next thing I know he slammed on his brakes, but didn't stop- got down to maybe 50. By the time I reacted and hit my brakes, an entire 18 wheeler tire flew out from under the Outback and pounded me in the front. Tore off all sorts of crap under neath, busted the radiator brackets, bent (but fortunately didnt break) the radiator, and busted the ac condensor. Not to mention the obvious damage to the front cover etc. All total about 3,000 in damage - fortunately I have insurance. I'll give cleaning the TB a shot, but I swear I thought this was a drive by wire system with no TPS? It spent 2 weeks just at the dealers and they found nothing except probably a car to go get lunch in every day. It is TBW but it probably still has a TPS as a feedback mechanism to make sure the TB is responding correctly to the computer input. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 It is TBW but it probably still has a TPS as a feedback mechanism to make sure the TB is responding correctly to the computer input. Could you find me a part number? I have searched and searched and even asked at Advance Auto and I can't find ANY information about one for a 2010 Fusion- unless for some reason it's an integrated part into something else... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Vonore, the throttle body is electronically controlled (no longer a simple device). An electric servo motor opens and closes it. There are no cables. The motor and TPSs are integrated into the throttle body. Usually what happens is the gears wear out or one or more of the TPSs go bad. Cleaning will not help in most cases. As far as I know, the TB is a dealer-only part. You might be able to order one from www.fordparts.com, but I think there are some computer relearning steps involved that the dealer must perform with their scan tool. So plan on having the dealer replace it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Vonore, the throttle body is electronically controlled (no longer a simple device). An electric servo motor opens and closes it. There are no cables. The motor and TPSs are integrated into the throttle body. Usually what happens is the gears wear out or one or more of the TPSs go bad. Cleaning will not help in most cases. As far as I know, the TB is a dealer-only part. You might be able to order one from www.fordparts.com, but I think there are some computer relearning steps involved that the dealer must perform with their scan tool. So plan on having the dealer replace it. This does not make me happy. I can get a throttle body off the web, I've found those.. I'm not keen on going to my dealer though.. They are acting completely stupid to what I'm talking about and unwilling to work with me on anything.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Does anyone have the Factory Service Manual? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Vonore, the throttle body is electronically controlled (no longer a simple device). An electric servo motor opens and closes it. There are no cables. The motor and TPSs are integrated into the throttle body. Usually what happens is the gears wear out or one or more of the TPSs go bad. Cleaning will not help in most cases. As far as I know, the TB is a dealer-only part. You might be able to order one from www.fordparts.com, but I think there are some computer relearning steps involved that the dealer must perform with their scan tool. So plan on having the dealer replace it. Thanks for the education. What you say sounds reasonable, drive by wire. I would still spend the time to pull the TB out and look it over, if it's off warranty. If there is a 10% chance it's just sticky, you might still save the servo motor. Servo motors can only deal with a certain amount of torque. I have successfully replaced servo motors in speedometer units, and saved people a lot of money. I soldered them into the instrument panel board. But I'm guessing, without looking, that this particular FFH servo motor would either be too integrated in the TB, or simply not available as a separate part yet. Still, lowering the friction and therefore the servo motor torque required is directionally correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con_fusion Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Let's see if this works. This is the page on removal/install of the tb. Doesn't look too difficult. I don't see any special instructions about a relearn procedure afterward. You could reset things by disconnecting the battery (I know, not recommended) and then following the guidelines to relearn the fuel trim and shift patterns etc. here is a link to the doc: http://www.filedropper.com/20104cyltb it should remain there as long as someone downloads it every 30 days... also, here is a clip from the manual on the tb - Throttle Body (TB) The TB : controls air supply to the upper intake manifold by electronically positioning the throttle plate. is not adjustable. cannot be cleaned. is serviced as a complete assembly only. Hope this helps... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 I'm ballsy enough to give it a shot Just need to save up the 100.00 or so for the TB... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionDiffusion Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Part number is 9L8Z-9E926-A. Prices range from about $100-300 from what I can find. It will be interesting to see if the computer adapts for the new throttle body on its own or not. You might have a fluctuating or high idle until it adapts to the new throttle trims. After you replace the TB, I would turn the key to ON without starting the car and floor/release the gas pedal a few times. This will help the computer learn the new throttle endpoints. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasThumper Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 This is a dealer only part and I would be very careful about buying a throttle body from anyone other than a dealer. I replaced mine for 200 and change. I could easily polish the bad one I took off and sell it online for twice as much. I would never do that but I am just saying be careful. Also, I never had to perform any sort of relearning for the new TB. As far as I can find since your are replacing a part with the same piece the computer already knows the limits as they are the same as the one you removed. Manuals say relearn for batery replacement or other loss of power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks for the input TT, I only buy from reputable places/sellers. I will look around and find mine. It's an easy fix.. As soon as I get enough $ from my second job, it's getting swapped... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdpath Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks for the input TT, I only buy from reputable places/sellers. I will look around and find mine. It's an easy fix.. As soon as I get enough $ from my second job, it's getting swapped... Not really " a fix" because the problem seems to be a design flaw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonoreTn Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Not really " a fix" because the problem seems to be a design flaw. Any ideas on how to get an assessment of what failed in the TB? I'm guessing that whoever the supplier is of that part to Ford has a good guess at what failed, after analyzing some failed parts. 46K miles is just out of warranty, not a design success story. Also they might know if the replacement parts have been upgraded. Would this have been covered in the extended warranty? If so, whoever didn't get the extended warranty is still way ahead if he can fix it for $200 and there are no other extended warranty zone failures. The cheapest extended warranty I heard of was about $1200. My dealer wanted $1800. I didn't get it. Haven't needed it so far at 61K miles. Edited July 29, 2012 by VonoreTn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Any ideas on how to get an assessment of what failed in the TB? I'm guessing that whoever the supplier is of that part to Ford has a good guess at what failed, after analyzing some failed parts. 46K miles is just out of warranty, not a design success story. Also they might know if the replacement parts have been upgraded. Would this have been covered in the extended warranty? If so, whoever didn't get the extended warranty is still way ahead if he can fix it for $200 and there are no other extended warranty zone failures. The cheapest extended warranty I heard of was about $1200. My dealer wanted $1800. I didn't get it. Haven't needed it so far at 61K miles. Hi Vonore. :D Whether it is "...covered in the extended Warranty" depends on the plan. On the Ford ESP Plan, in most cases and on most plan levels, yes. On third party, aftermarket plans it is a crapshoot and no way to answer definitively. As far as cost for extended Warranties? Well, like most things, Dealers mark them up significantly. There are several existing threads discussing this subject, along with listing several online sellers who offer deep discounts on the Ford ESP Plans. For example, top-of-the-line Ford ESP Premium Care Plans for less than half the prices you quoted above. So as always, a smart shopper gets the good deals. Of course, opinions vary and whether an ESP Plan is worth it is a personal choice. Check the existing threads for further information. Good luck. :D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 The fact is, is that critical components shouldn't be failing on a 2 model year old vehicle that has been well maintained and cared for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The fact is, is that critical components shouldn't be failing on a 2 model year old vehicle that has been well maintained and cared for. Hi Oscar. :D Another fact would be that no one stated they should be failing. However, as often happens, although you began this thread, other questions were asked and being answered. Good luck. :beerchug: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarTheGrouch Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 I wasn't criticizing anyone, just venting a frustration While I did search, I suppose my search terms were poor and I didn't find anything that met my needs in May. No sweat, I'm appreciative of the information Ive received here and intend on fixing this problem myself once I scrounge together enough for the part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasThumper Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Could you find me a part number? I have searched and searched and even asked at Advance Auto and I can't find ANY information about one for a 2010 Fusion- unless for some reason it's an integrated part into something else... Here's the sticker from my new TB. Hope it helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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