08' Fusion w/ 3.0L can it stack up?

[escapen]

2008 will open with 2 new major players in the American midsize sedan catagory. With Toyotas year old Camry selling like crazy with its 6speed trans and 268 hp V6, the newly introduced Altima with a 270 hp V6, and the Aura and G6 from GM having 6 speed autos and 252 hp in the top of the line model, where does the Fusion/ Milan fit in with a 3.0L making a respectable but rather lower 221 horses? The 2007 competition was bad enough, now Chevy will introduce a much larger Malibu with 6speed trannys on both 4 and 6 cylinder engines. The biggest threat for 2008 may just be the all new Honda Accord with yes... most likely a carried over 5speed tranny, but the addition of Honda's new 3.5L V6 making at least 270 hp.

 

2008 Fusion selling points

-Unique and exciting styling that set it apart from even the new and upcoming Accord and Malibu

-Avalible AWD not offered on anything else but the new Chrysler products... need we even compare their new offerings

-Sporty heritage with the underpinnings of the previous Mazda 6 platfrom

-of course the 6 Speed auto on 6 and 5 speed on 4 cylinders, but this is a must have and will be virtually common on all offerings in 08'

 

Cons

-lack of a real powerful yet efficient V6 like its Japanese counterparts

-may be smallish in the next year as this segment is growing in wheelbase length, (Yet Ford has a confident new Taurus for those who need extra room)

-the interior could tend to get very dated and cheap looking after the intros of the new sedans

 

Overall, ford has a very decent product line, but could use the duratec 35 in this lineup, ideally, the best option to save costs would to make the SE and regular Milan line strictly a Duratec 30 car, while the top of the line SEL and Premier Milan have the I-4 or the Duratec 35.

[akirby]

They'll do fine for 08 with AWD and Sync - not great, but ok until the 09 refresh arrives with more engine options and better fuel economy including a new 3.0L with 240 hp but significantly better mpg (that's the rumor at least) plus a gasoline twin turbo direct injection 2.5L putting out 260 hp and a more fuel efficient base 4 cylinder plus ESC and a hybrid option.

[Dyoct]

Where do people keep coming up with this turbo four banger for 09? Showroom of the Future and a recent presentation by a certain exec whose name shall remain nameless here showed no turbo for 09 (did have the 09 Milan, whereas SOTF only had '08 Montego and 08 Mariner for the Mercury line...). Also, nothing was mentioned about the fuel economy getting better on the upped 3.0. I'm curious what the difference would be between the 3.0 ver4.0 or the 3.5 in these things.

 

AWD does make a great point. I'm borrowing a co-workers Edge this weekend, man I forgot how much it fun it is take on road with all four wheels gripping!

[akirby]

Where do people keep coming up with this turbo four banger for 09? Showroom of the Future and a recent presentation by a certain exec whose name shall remain nameless here showed no turbo for 09 (did have the 09 Milan, whereas SOTF only had '08 Montego and 08 Mariner for the Mercury line...). Also, nothing was mentioned about the fuel economy getting better on the upped 3.0. I'm curious what the difference would be between the 3.0 ver4.0 or the 3.5 in these things.

 

AWD does make a great point. I'm borrowing a co-workers Edge this weekend, man I forgot how much it fun it is take on road with all four wheels gripping!

 

Nobody's really confirmed the GTTDI 2.5L as an 09 option, so it could be down the road. The rest comes from some of the powertrain insiders over on BON.

[Meelaan]

Nobody's really confirmed the GTTDI 2.5L as an 09 option, so it could be down the road. The rest comes from some of the powertrain insiders over on BON.

 

A Ford employee on BlueOvalForums.com confirmed powertrains for 2009 will include a 2.5L turbo option.

 

Here's the complete run down:

• 180-190hp 2.5l I4
  
• 240-50hp 3/0l V6
  
• 260-280hp TwinForce 2.5l I4
  
• Hybrid
  

[akirby]

A Ford employee on BlueOvalForums.com confirmed powertrains for 2009 will include a 2.5L turbo option.

 

Here's the complete run down:

• 180-190hp 2.5l I4
  
• 240-50hp 3/0l V6
  
• 260-280hp TwinForce 2.5l I4
  
• Hybrid
  

 

There didn't seem to be consensus on whether the Twin Force engine would be available for 09 or if it would come later. The others seem to be fairly solid.

[escapen]

the new 2008 Accord specs were unveiled today:

 

2.4L I-4 producing 177 hp mated with a 5 speed automatic or maunal as the bas LX models

New 2.4" I-4 producing 190-195 hp mated with the same transmissions

New 3.5L V6 producing 268 hp (same as Camry) mated to either the 5 speed auto or 6 speed manual

 

tidbit: according to the the new regulations, the Accord is now considered as "large" sedan as it has grown signifficantly in size.

[ctrcbob]

What I want to know is if the 08 V6 Fusion/Milan/MKZ's will use the same AWF21 (6speed) automatic (TRansmission code "B") or the Ford 6F (6speed) automatic. (Unknown TR code).

 

If anyone sees an 08 (it must be a V6), check the transmission code on the sticker on the driver door sill.

 

BTW, this business about a "6 speed transmission saving fuel" is a bunch of huey. If anything, it causes a car to use even more fuel because the car is in the lower gears for a longer period of time. The 4speed transmission of the Taurus with the 3.0 Duratec (same engine as the Fusion) gets much better fuel milage than the 6speed. My buddies MKX (Edge) with the 3.5 engine and the F6 transmission gets even worse gas milage than our Fusions/Milans/MKZ's with the F21.

My V8 Intec Continental with the 4speed gets better than my MKZ.

 

JMHO

[Dyoct]

More gears allow you to theoretically turn lower rpms at higher speeds. Not to mention today's six speeds shift quicker than yesterdays four speeds. It's mainly a performance thing versus a fuel economy thing, but it should help to improve economy, not harm it.

 

Americans are driving more miles and driving faster than ever. So rather than pull 4K at 85mph, pull 3K.

 

Duratec 3.0 in the Fusion/Milan is not the same Duratec 3.0 in the Taurus. It has more HP via different intake tuning, variable cam timing, cam driven waterpump, etc

 

The V8 Continental has not been required to meet multiple federal emissions standards revisions. Which ironically affect fuel economy. Ever used E85? Instant reduction in fuel economy at the expense of "sustainable" energy.

[ctrcbob]

Both the 3.0 Duratec engine (4speed auto) in my Sisters 97 Taurus and the 3.0 Duratec engine (CVT) in my brother-in-laws 05 FreeStyle are 220 hp DOHC engines that are basicly the same as the 3.0 Duratec 220 hp engine of the Fusion (6speed F21 auto) , with only the intakes different due to the different hoods on the cars. This is a bullitproof engine, but it shure get better economy in the older cars. The only real difference is the @#$%&* 6speed auto.

 

As for the Continental with the 4.6 Intec V8 DOHC 275hp (in my 02 but was 260hp in my two 1998's), with the very same 4speed transmission as the 97 thru 05 Taurus, your answer about "emission standard revisions" just does not cut it with me. Much heavier car with basicly the same hp, and much better fuel economy than most Fusion V6's. (Note, I said most, not all, as there is always an exception).

 

The shifting is not any quicker in my MKZ than my Continental. The only real life difference is that in normal throttle, as when leaving a stoplight or stopsign, the Continental is in top gear much sooner, and at a lower speed than the MKZ. RPM's in TOP GEAR for both of them is the same for any given speed. Both cars, top gear (6th in MKZ, 4th in Continental) 70mph is 2100RPM). I would much prefer the 4speed automatic over these "gas saving" 6speed transmissions. Note I have the experience with the F21 6speed. Don't know much about the 6F 6speed transmission, but from what I read on the Ford Edge site, the Edge with the 3.5 Duratec engine (same as me) and the 6F 6speed transmission gets even worse gas economy than I get, but that could also be because the Edge weighs 500 lbs more than my MKZ, about the same as my Continental.

 

BOZ, if you read this, how is your Gas Hog doing these days, and what do you think?

[Dyoct]

The Taurus and FS Duratecs were 200HP engines. Ok the 'Style had 203 or something like that, big whoop. Same block, different intake and tuning than the fusion.

 

When comparing the V8 versus V6, the V8 will have better low end torque. The V6 will work a bit harder to get up and going compared 6.

 

Also, a 4.6 engine turning 2000rpm is using more gas than a 3.0 V6 engine turning 2000rpm.

 

 

What type of fuel economy are people seeing in the Edge? I got 26 highway on a long trip from Michigan to Georgia a couple of weekends ago, and I'm not a conservative driver, in fact I got busted in the home state for 81 in a 45, decelerating.

[ctrcbob]

Around town, day in and day out;

The Continental gets 18 to 20;

The MKZ gets 16 to 18.

 

On the open road, (on a trip);

The Continental gets 26 to 30 (fill up to fill up) averaging 27.

The MKZ gets 23 to 26 (fill up to fill up) averaging 24.

 

Only took one 3000 mile trip with the MKZ, but many with the Continental. Matter of fact, will be leaving for a long trip on Sept 19th, visiting my daughter in Columbia SC, then friends in El Paso, then more friends in Phoenix, then to Roswell NM for a few weeks. Taking the Continental and leaving the MKZ here in Florida. May have to spend a few weeks in Penfield NY this coming winter (ugh) and for that trip, will take the MKZ as Penfield (Rochester) is in deep snow country and the MKZ goes better in deep snow.

[ctrcbob]

Anyone check the Transmission Code on the 08 V6's yet? Located on the sticker on the left driver door sill. Is the code still "B" or is it something else?

 

Its not that I don't like this six speed transmission (code "B"), its more like the transmission is "Not Likeable", and am wondering if they went to the Ford Six Speed Transmission on the 08's, just like they use on the Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX.

[escapen]

The Fusion/ milan use a Aisin 6 speed while every ford product after the intro of the edge use the 6F from Ford and GM.

[akirby]

The Fusion/ milan use a Aisin 6 speed while every ford product after the intro of the edge use the 6F from Ford and GM.

 

The 2007 MKZ still used the Aisin just like the Fusion and Milan even though it got the 3.5L engine.

[urnews]

BOZ, if you read this, how is your Gas Hog doing these days, and what do you think?

 

Our 2007 3.0-liter V6 AWD SEL Fusion with the 6-speed automatic transmission is still getting 14.8 mpg (constant average) in all-city driving and only 24 mpg on the highway for trips. That's after 9 months and 4,400 miles. The revised EPA estimate for this power train is 17 mpg city and 24 mpg highway.

 

I believe the AWD option is the mileage culprit. In all fairness to the Fusion, even our 2.0 Zetec 4-cyclinder 2000 Ford Focus station wagon only gets 18-20 mpg over the same course. In retrospect, I am sorry that we bought the V6 with AWD. A 4-cylinder would have been just fine.

 

Boz

[otaku]

They definetly need to drop the 3.5 in the milan and fusion next year definetly (should have this year) the AWD and sync (and styling) just aren't enough

[Sir Charles]

A Ford employee on BlueOvalForums.com confirmed powertrains for 2009 will include a 2.5L turbo option.

 

Here's the complete run down:

• 180-190hp 2.5l I4
  
• 240-50hp 3/0l V6
  
  
• 260-280hp TwinForce 2.5l I4
  
• Hybrid
  

 

Sounds like I should wait for the Twin Force to release.

[akirby]

Sounds like I should wait for the Twin Force to release.

 

It may not happen until calendar year 2009/model year 2010. Conflicting reports.